Second wreck :(

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First, let me say thank you so much for the encouragement and sharing your experience...

I agree with you - to a point. I do agree that with time (lots of time) and proper conditioning, I could get her to drive again - perhaps only in a very controlled environment but I could drive her again. I know the steps to take, the process, but I also know that I would always have the next wreck in my mind. Because, even with an extreme amount of counter-conditioning, there would always be a chance that in the right (wrong) set of circumstances, she would revert to her default which is not just a little bucking fit but a full blown, terror driven, willing to hurt herself kind of bucking fit. Every horse has that default thing they do. Some shut down and either lay down, like yours, or any number of other things like just stand there and glaze over, jig, chew the bit, shake their head... Horses are always trying to tell us if they are happy or not. Some slowly escalate and if we are carefully watching, we can intervene in the situation before a total mental collapse happens. In Dolly's case, she has gone from being forward and happy to a bit irritable to a complete collapse in a matter of seconds. I try but obviously am not always successful at reading my horses LOL... but I do try awfully hard. In Dolly's case, I clearly missed something! This last time, I don't think she even showed any irritability - she just exploded as soon as I touched her breeching.

This last wreck, Dolly had been thoroughly groomed, handled, gently tacked up, every peice of harness was tested, shaken, pulled and tested before the cart was introduced. I tried to get her to buck before we ever saw the cart but she was unperterbed and was in a good frame of mind and very willing throughout the whole thing. We'd been doing it for weeks so for her, it was just another game with a cookie at the end of it. When I brought over the cart, I again tested everything. As I attached every part, it was tested. When she was fully tacked, I rocked the cart back and forth, putting pressue on the breeching and crupper especially, carefully watching her reaction. She was ears forward or listening the entire time. No pinned ears or sour expression. No tail switching, no foot stomping, no teeth grinding. Nothing but a relaxed, licking and chewing horse.

There are so many "ifs"... IF I were younger (I'm not dead but I am 50 and have fibromyalgia), IF I wasn't recently recovering from not only a completely reconstructed knee but also a major ankle break, IF I had a ton of time and no other horses that needed work... I could devote all my time to this. I'm not saying I'm not going to work with her... in fact, right after the accident, both times, I went right to work with her and we ended with a stronger bond and we both felt safe and comfortable with each other. There were no "don't go there" spots on her body, no resistance, no fear of the equipment or the environment. She ended both episodes a willing and enthusiastic partner.

What I know is that no matter what I discover in this process, be it a physical issue that is "fixable" or a mental issue that will take counter-conditioning, I will not feel safe in a cart behind her. At least I cannot envision that at this time. That might change. But right now, I cannot imagine it. I have another mare that has a very even keeled personality and while she won't be the Porsche to drive that Dolly was, she'll be fine and fun and safe as her default when she is pushed to her limit is to just stop and stomp her princess feet. I also have a colt that I'll be bringing up every step of the way so hopefully, he'll be a good driving horse in 3 or so years.

I say all of this to share my thought process as I hope that all our experiences, good, bad and otherwise, will help someone else. I'll continue to update everyone with Dolly's progress and believe me, no one will be happier than me if one day I can come back here and report that once again, she and I are enjoying a good trot down a sunny country road!

Meanwhile, we have a LOT of tricks to learn together!

Cheers

Mary
 
I understand why you don't want to drive her anymore. A friend of mine came off and was injured while riding one of my nice horses. I couldn't put anyone up on her again. I eventually sold her, and she is a really calm "safe" horse.

There is a driving instructor in our area who was in a significant wreck when her big horse's bridle came off through no fault of the horse. She told me she had to sell the horse, harness, and vehicle because she just couldn't drive the horse or use the harness and vehicle again. She is a great confident gal who continues to drive and instruct.

Best wishes,

Karen
 
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I was absolutely going to say there's some holes in the training. I haven't read everything, but if you are in it for the long haul with this mare, I would say send her out for training from the ground up.

Good luck.
 
I was absolutely going to say there's some holes in the training. I haven't read everything, but if you are in it for the long haul with this mare, I would say send her out for training from the ground up.

Good luck.
It would be a good idea to read the thread.

I don't think there is a horse out there that doesn't have a "hole" in it's training somewhere so please don't get me wrong - I am not thinking that I know it all (don't by a long shot) but I also spent a Loooooooooooooong time on the ground with this mare before ever putting her to the cart and we had at least 50 good long drives under all kinds of conditions before we ever had a problem. She's been around fireworks, over bubble wrap, through the woods, through cattle, dogs chickens, ducks, pigs, around bikes, motorcycles, crowds of kids, balloons, umbrellas...

I only know a tiny bit of her background (found abandoned wandering on a country road pregnant) and nothing of the 13 years prior to that so there very well could be a trigger that I'm unaware of or, more likely, some kind of physical situation going on. Vet appt has been made.

It could be that she's ultra sensitive to alfalfa which has been added to her diet as prep for winter to increase protein so that I can free feed the local hay that I have. Could be so many things! ;)

If only we could ask them. But, the fact remains that I really don't want another wreck. So, we have gone back to ground zero. I will not send her out to a trainer for a couple of reasons... the few that I respect and can afford that are willing to take on an unregistered horse from an unknown background have already discussed her with me and both agreed that she would likely never be safe again because she has these experiences in her mind and will, if pushed, go there again. I also have other horses with known backgrounds that I am working with and one has already been driven. I'll be driving her soon, as I will be working with her from the ground up with a trainer.

Dolly is a very suspicious mare by nature. It took me a long time to get her to trust me just touching her. We've come a long way and sadly, have this set back. But, she's going nowhere. She's a good mare, a great babysitter and can still enjoy all kinds of activities that don't involve a cart.

So, onward! The adventure continues!
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That's great that you are in it for the long haul with her and don't consider her a throwaway, like so many would. I wish for nothing but the best for you when it comes to driving with a different companion. I was just commenting in agreement with one of your earlier posts in this thread as to having a hole in her training.

Not in your situation, but I cringe when steps are skipped and people blame the horse, not the poor training. Good luck and happy trails.
 
That's great that you are in it for the long haul with her and don't consider her a throwaway, like so many would. I wish for nothing but the best for you when it comes to driving with a different companion. I was just commenting in agreement with one of your earlier posts in this thread as to having a hole in her training.

Not in your situation, but I cringe when steps are skipped and people blame the horse, not the poor training. Good luck and happy trails.
No, poor girl's been thrown away already. She's staying. I wish I knew more about her background. I wish we'd never had a wreck! She's the funnest horse to drive. REALLY moves. And she was really having a good time... but something freaked her out. I would count it off to touch sensitivity but then I don't see that same sensitivity any other time.

I'm going to continue. And I'm going to put the harness on her and ground drive her and try to recreate the situation in a safer environment. I really do want to get her out and drive some more and likely, as time passes and my (poor) memory fades, I'll get her out again but right now, my good sense says to let it be and do other things with her. She is enjoying learning tricks and she's a lot of fun to take on hikes.
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And, she's got the most gorgeous hazel eyes!
 
Hi Knottymare

Very sorry you went through 2 accidents with your mare. Its not your fault. I too have a mini mare I spent 2 years training to drive and I am a trainer.

She was fine for awhile driving and then started taking off like a racehorse! I would get her stopped and she would try running backwards real fast. Get her stopped and started kicking.

I ground drive her and she is perfect. Hitched fine until Im in the cart. She is extremely aggresive with other horses to the point of wanting to kill them!

Her mom was the same way. My vet thinks she has cysts on her ovaries. The breeching is putting pressure on her and the shafts could be too. Its something to ponder :)

Another issue is teeth. When was the last dental your mare had? The driving cavesson can dig into impacted or hooks on the teeth.

I have major dental issues with my mare...but I have trained her for In hand trail and Showmanship. She is amazing!! She has won many hi points in these classes so don't give up on your mare she might just not like driving.

I prefer Geldings. I have had an arena accident where I to wS knocked down,ran over and dragged by the lines. I did get hurt but he never did it again .

I like the boys to train better...JMO...Good luck!!
 
Alfalfa will make a mini psycho?? I've been feeding my mostly very sane minis alfalfa for almost 15 years... there may be some horses, large or small, who wig out on alfalfa but I don't think you can make a blanket statement about all minis anymore than you could about all quarter horses or all arabians. Most people I know feed alfalfa, at least in combination with grass hay.

Jan
 
Knottymare--

I can relate to your story and your conclusion. I have a mare that was trained to drive when she was 9 and had a great moving out walk and trot. It took her about 10 minutes to go mentally from "let me just move my feet" to " oh, now I am listening to you", but I figured she would be great for distance and she did fine in driving classes. BUT, she developed allergies to all sorts of pollens and insects and is under desensitization shot, and this summer, also antihistamines and prednisone to keep her from rubbing herself raw. I couldn't drive her last summer and started back this spring/summer. But I couldn't drive her daily, often only only once a week. She seems to be a bit of an ADHD-sort ("what's that! let me look now!") and high energy. Well, I drove her in an arena as I was concerned (I only have a field to drive in), and after about 40 feet of driving did a major bucking episode. I concentrated on keeping the the head up and her straight to not flip the cart or throw me out--I'm 61 and have my elderly father living with me, so was concerned over a serious accident.

She did stop and with help of lovely ladies who stayed with me, we re-adjusted the harness and ended up driving with her and ended on a calmer note. So what caused it? Maybe a horsefly bite, maybe the drugs she's on for her allergies, maybe just too tense--who knows?!

After discussing with my trainer, who said that the mare was in heat the entire summer she was there for training, and the fact that she probably needs daily work (which just isn't in my schedule), I decided to no longer drive her. I'm bummed for the money I spent for training, for the money for cart and harness, and disappointed that I can't drive her, BUT I don't feel safe with her. I figure that God gave me a "heads up" before that bad wreck that may have been down the road.

I too am looking for a new "job" for her that we can do that she can deal with. I do have a driving gelding that is a "steady Eddie" type that I trust so that's where my driving will be. He doesn't have the great walk that she has, but even when he gets excited (and he did buck in the cart at our spring fun show after being clipped), he comes down quickly and doesn't give of the "vibes" of "not thinking clearly", which my mare does to me.

I totally understand your decision--our health isn't something to be taken lightly, especially when there are other responsibilities as well.

I'm considering having an animal communicator come out to see what they can tell me; I'd like to know if my horses (and cats) like what we're doing or if I can do something to make their lives better.

Good luck--
 
The bottom line is she is your horse and if you are not comfortable driving her but are willing to keep her and find another job you and she can both enjoy you are doing the right thing for you both. I disagree that all horses that have wrecked can not be retrained but a lot depends on what caused the wreck. I have retrained several horses that have wrecked - some are driving beautifully now and two are not. In your case there is a good possibility that it is physical discomfort of some kind caused by the addition of the cart and it is possible she could be retrained if the cause can be discovered but that would be your choice and unless you are gungho to have that done you will never be comfortable with the result and that alone would create a problem. I am glad to hear she hasn't frightened you off driving altogether and wish you the best with any future driving horse you may have.
 
Hi Knottymare

Very sorry you went through 2 accidents with your mare. Its not your fault. I too have a mini mare I spent 2 years training to drive and I am a trainer.

She was fine for awhile driving and then started taking off like a racehorse! I would get her stopped and she would try running backwards real fast. Get her stopped and started kicking.

I ground drive her and she is perfect. Hitched fine until Im in the cart. She is extremely aggresive with other horses to the point of wanting to kill them!

Her mom was the same way. My vet thinks she has cysts on her ovaries. The breeching is putting pressure on her and the shafts could be too. Its something to ponder :)

Another issue is teeth. When was the last dental your mare had? The driving cavesson can dig into impacted or hooks on the teeth.

I have major dental issues with my mare...but I have trained her for In hand trail and Showmanship. She is amazing!! She has won many hi points in these classes so don't give up on your mare she might just not like driving.

I prefer Geldings. I have had an arena accident where I to wS knocked down,ran over and dragged by the lines. I did get hurt but he never did it again .

I like the boys to train better...JMO...Good luck!!
Thanks for your reply. She's up to date on everything but I do have her teeth checked every 6 months. Her appt is on 11/24 so we'll be looking at all kinds of things. Meanwhile, I work on lots of ground stuff with her. I continue to work on that hind end sensitivity - just started blanketing because our rainy season has started and I notice that she is touchy about the leg straps. Makes me go Hmmm
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LOL...

Every time I drive the car down the roads I've driven her on it makes me a little sad... we had so much fun. I do hope we can get back out there because she really was enjoying it. Ears forward, happy attitude. Darn!
 
Knottymare--

I'm considering having an animal communicator come out to see what they can tell me; I'd like to know if my horses (and cats) like what we're doing or if I can do something to make their lives better.

Good luck--
That's a great idea... I'd love to know what's going on in that head of hers. She continues to willingly hook up with me and we do little romps around the field, her right next to me at liberty. I don't have a ton of time; work full time, husband, farm, 2 other horses, so she gets what she gets. With winter setting in, activities will be limited. We'll see what Spring brings... but every single day, I work on that back end.
 
The bottom line is she is your horse and if you are not comfortable driving her but are willing to keep her and find another job you and she can both enjoy you are doing the right thing for you both. I disagree that all horses that have wrecked can not be retrained but a lot depends on what caused the wreck. I have retrained several horses that have wrecked - some are driving beautifully now and two are not. In your case there is a good possibility that it is physical discomfort of some kind caused by the addition of the cart and it is possible she could be retrained if the cause can be discovered but that would be your choice and unless you are gungho to have that done you will never be comfortable with the result and that alone would create a problem. I am glad to hear she hasn't frightened you off driving altogether and wish you the best with any future driving horse you may have.
Thanks, Lori. We have so much we can do together that I'm not too worried about it. And I WILL get that cart behind her again. I'm in no rush. I have 2 others to work with as well so it will just come in time. I probably won't take her out on the road again but you never know. She LOVED getting out and exploring so we'll see.

Cheers!
 
.

There are some amazing videos of horse agility on YouTube.

Thanks for that link, Amy...of course, I'd do it in its lower case form, rather than have to pay to do the upper case proprietary version.
 
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OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO... Horse Agility! How awesome. Now, I think I might be able to do that. My knees are not as bad as they used to be thanks to last year's surgery.

Thanks!
 
Horse Agility?! Seriously?! When I first got minis I was hoping that you could do with minis in hand things like dog agility or the in-hand trail. I don't see much in the US, but now I've got to find those videos and see what's up. Cool!

Roxane
 
I wish I lived closer and could help you out. I've had very good luck retraining horses that have previously had trouble and "shouldn't" be driving.
 
Lori I have one like that now. I'm not sure what happened to her in her previous life but she is afraid in cart now. She is great at Obstacle and that is what I mainly do with her. I want to try and teach her liberty obstacle, if that is a class?? You know, when they work with the horse without a halter and lead rope. She moves out of my space well. Sometimes we play around "dancing" in the ring, It's fun!
 

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