Silver Bay VS Liver Chestnut

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I find it very easy to tell what is a Silver bay and what is a Liver chestnut. Have had enough of both.

Here is Maggie, she is a medium Liver chestnut... and she tested for chestnut.

She has some black and light colors mixed in her mane and tail.

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Shari

I completely understand how you would find it easy to call the mare you posted as Chestnut but I am curious what you would have called Rosebuds Dam and what you would have called FrostHillFarms mare and would like to know why.
 
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This filly was tested Silver Bay with the pangare gene, which adds an extra twist.

Silver bays always have darker lower legs, usually shades of a charcoal color. When the are born, their skin around their eyes are black. Mane and tail can be anything from white to shades of silver. Can not see it in this photo but in person it was easy to see how silver was shot through her mane and tail.

Where as pure Chestnuts, always have shades of pink skin around their eyes when born, that will darken a little later. Chestnuts can have black or light hairs in their manes and tails. Like Maggie. She tested as plan old chesnut.
 
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Shari

I completely understand how you would find it easy to call the mare you posted as Chestnut but I am curious what you would have called Rosebuds Dam and what you would have called FrostHillFarms mare and would like to know why.
Haven't looked at them yet but I will.
 
Here are a few horses that have/had me stumped...

The first is a horse I used to own that looked like a dark palomino (and was listed as such on his papers), but was actually a silver bay.

The second is a mare I own. She has a "silvery mane and tail", but no darker points on her legs. Her dam is black so does not carry silver and her sire was tested negative for silver...I have not had her tested, but I am curious to see if she in fact IS silver. I have never seen a horse with that color mane and tail that was not a silver bay...maybe a silver chestnut (even tho they say silver does not show up on chestnut)...
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Mars Rosebud, is a pretty chestnut just like Maggie.

There is no shading or darkness on her lower legs. As for Mane and Tail, Appy can play merry hobs with color. Add Liver chestnut...
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When most people clip liver chestnuts you will get almost black or black, "Liver spots" shading close to their skin... on many of them with this color.
 
Here are a few horses that have/had me stumped...

The first is a horse I used to own that looked like a dark palomino (and was listed as such on his papers), but was actually a silver bay.

The second is a mare I own. She has a "silvery mane and tail", but no darker points on her legs. Her dam is black so does not carry silver and her sire was tested negative for silver...I have not had her tested, but I am curious to see if she in fact IS silver. I have never seen a horse with that color mane and tail that was not a silver bay...maybe a silver chestnut (even tho they say silver does not show up on chestnut)...
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Any chance the second mare is min Sabino?

Might be worth having her color tested.
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Modifier genes include: bay, flaxen, grey, sooty/smutty, and mealy/pangare. Modifier genes also work in conjunction with base coat color and create different visual results depending on the base coat color and other genetic factors.

Bay modifier: As was described earlier bay, or the agouti modifier, only affects the black base coat. The body of the horse is brown, with the black restricted to the points, mane and tail. Bays come in a wide range of color including blood/red bays, and very dark black bays.

Champagne: The champagne dilution effects both black and red base coats, and is a simple dominant. This is also a relatively new genetic discovery, and as such is still being studied. Common traits of the champagne dilution include: amber, green, or blue eye color, pink to a light brown colored skin, often with freckles, dilution of the coat color, and a metallic sheen to the coat.

On a red base coat creates gold champagne: golden body color with a flaxen mane and tail, often mistaken for palomino.

Flaxen modifier: The flaxen modifier is not as yet completely understood. It is believed that the flaxen modifier only affects horses with red base coats, and it is also believed to be recessive (which means that both parents must pass on the gene for it to be expressed). When it is expressed, the flaxen modifier caused a lightening of the mane and tail ranging from golden brown to pure white.

Sooty/Smutty modifier: The sooty modifier works on both red and black based horses by darkening random parts of the body, but most often darkens the towline of the horse affected. However, it also affects the shoulders, hips and face of some horses. In some horses to sooty modifier is expressed to such a point that the horse becomes so dark its true color is almost completely masked.

Mealy/Pangare modifier: The mealy modifier causes a lightening ranging from tan to white in the following areas: on or around the muzzle, around the eyes, along the underside of the belly, in the flanks, on the buttocks and behind the elbows.

Many horses express a combination of more than one modifier or dilution-gene creating both a beautiful coat, and an intriguing puzzle as science, breeders and horse lovers alike strive to solve the mystery that is color genetics!
 
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And you'd think this colt out of the palomino mare is a bay silver, too...

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But nope, he's Ee AA nT nO- we think the AA accounts for the lighter black mane & tail.
There is no silver test result there - what you have there is a BAY test result - E is black, AA means homozygous for Agouti. He wouldn't have that light mane and tail without Silver. Silver is coded as Z - no Z in these results. Agouti (A) does not effect mane and tail color - it allows a black to keep its black mane and tail while modifing the body color to a redish brown shade. There is no visual difference between heterozygous and homozygous Agouti on a bay.

I've attached a photo of my liver chestnut Shetland mare McCalls RedneckWoman of PlatteRidge (Yes, she had a mule foal in 2010). Her sire was a bay, her dam is a blue roan going gray out of a grayed out black mare and sired by a blue roan stallion. Absolutely no chance of silver. Here's a link to a newborn photo of her with her dam - http://platteridgefarm.com/2005foals/Passionate05filly2.JPG

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Any chance the second mare is min Sabino?

Might be worth having her color tested.
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Very possible! Her sire is LWO +, so might also have sabino in there as well (I don't know all his test results, so can't tell you whether he is sabino or not. I do plan to have her tested for various things, but she is a coming 3 yr old, so wasn't important to test before now (before I breed her).
 
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This guy was genetically tested and is chestnut and NON silver. I would have bet anything he was a silver bay!
 
Loving this topic!

Huge fan of the silver gene so it is great to see so many examples being looked at. Also brilliant to not see the term 'silver chestnut'
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I have a friend convinced her horse is that when he is a chestnut with flaxen mane and tail. She refuses to listen when I say silver and red don't play together!

Question about one of mine, he is registered as a silver bay and is out of a palomino mare and a black sire however unlike all the others I have met he is never heavy on the silver. He seems to match photos of some people's silver smokey blacks, do you think that is what he is instead? It's what I'm leaning towards myself but would like some other opinions.

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There is no silver test result there - what you have there is a BAY test result - E is black, AA means homozygous for Agouti. He wouldn't have that light mane and tail without Silver. Silver is coded as Z - no Z in these results. Agouti (A) does not effect mane and tail color - it allows a black to keep its black mane and tail while modifing the body color to a redish brown shade. There is no visual difference between heterozygous and homozygous Agouti on a bay.

I've attached a photo of my liver chestnut Shetland mare McCalls RedneckWoman of PlatteRidge (Yes, she had a mule foal in 2010). Her sire was a bay, her dam is a blue roan going gray out of a grayed out black mare and sired by a blue roan stallion. Absolutely no chance of silver. Here's a link to a newborn photo of her with her dam - http://platteridgefa...ate05filly2.JPG

He was tested for silver and does not carry it, even though I could have swore he did with that wild mane & tail color- every horse that' I've ever seen personally that had that same shade of mane & tail were tested AA. No, it's not proven, but it is just a thought.
 
He was tested for silver and does not carry it, even though I could have swore he did with that wild mane & tail color- every horse that' I've ever seen personally that had that same shade of mane & tail were tested AA. No, it's not proven, but it is just a thought.
I never tested him for silver, but here's my AA tested bay gelding (picture doesn't show all the "frosting" in his mane):

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And you'd think this colt out of the palomino mare is a bay silver, too...

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But nope, he's Ee AA nT nO- we think the AA accounts for the lighter black mane & tail.
So what color is he then? being Ee he is black based so why cant he be silver bay? None of what you listed there is for silver testing. It cant be a chestnut if its carrying a black gene right?

Marsha
 
Ok, I found a picture of her jumping and it shows her legs well. She has two hind socks and front coronets. (Her hooves have black polish on, if that affects anything.) This picture does her no justice when it comes to her head! I make it distorted when I blurred myself out.
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I would call this one silver bay.
 
He was tested for silver and does not carry it, even though I could have swore he did with that wild mane & tail color- every horse that' I've ever seen personally that had that same shade of mane & tail were tested AA. No, it's not proven, but it is just a thought.
I had a bay mare and her filly both test AA (homozygous for agouti) and their manes and tails are very dark.

Marsha
 
Just out of curiosity what color would you call him? hes almost 8 months old im DYING to shave him but its going to be a long time before i can because we have 10* weather as is LOL

I was told bay BUT his legs are almost white or tan and i shaved them to see if they were going to come in back NOPE

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And you'd think this colt out of the palomino mare is a bay silver, too...

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But nope, he's Ee AA nT nO- we think the AA accounts for the lighter black mane & tail.
Those test results don't tell you if he is carrying silver or not. They only tell you that he is a bay tobiano pinto carrying LWO. Need to test for silver to see if he is carrying it or not.

Edited to add that I had not read through all the posts and I see many others here saying the same thing.
 
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