Sky Update --

[Boss Mare]

OK, Sky is still the same. I just came inside not too long ago from another round of IV fluids and she passed about a tablespoon of lightly formed manure.

I called Leesburg again to get another vet's opinion. She said that from the sounds of it Sky needs to be tubed again with warm water, electrolytes and mineral oil -- My vet hasn't tubed Sky since Thursday, when she gave just a coffee cup full of water. Even from day one with the two gentlemen vets, they haven't wanted to tube her with any measurable amount of water, just enough to check for reflux and pull out what they can, which has decreased to almost no reflux or anything in her stomach besides some mucus, last she was tubed.

This is day five, Sky isn't allowed to eat, hasn't been tubed 'good enough', isn't drinking, no reflux, I'd assume her stomach is empty, does she or does she not need something to stimulate her gut?

My vet refused to tube her again when she was out Friday, refused to use epsom salts/saline laxative or any meds to stimulate the gut.... Something about unless you know what type of blockage it is you can perforate the bowel. I figure, we've been this long with no progress, what do we have to lose?! She's coming out tomorrow morning, early AM .... I am going to ask her to tube again with warm water, mineral oil and electrolytes and ask about other stimulants. If she doesn't want to do it, I'll find someone who will.

I also called and spoke to 2 vets and 1 surgeon at Blue Ridge Equine Clinic. All of them agreed it sounded like sand colic and "If it was true colic, she'd be dead by now". They recommended me bringing her in and said everything we're doing it right, but wouldn't really tell me what else to do, they just want me to bring her in. First gentleman I spoke to said they'd see her for $1,000.00 down and they'd work with me on the rest, I was thinking I could do that. Then I spoke to the woman vet and gentleman surgeon and they want $3,000.00 to see her and the minimum colic surgery would be $5,000.00 just to lay her on the table, everything else is extra and they want it paid in full.

So, I guess my question...... Do I give tubings a try? Try a stimulant? Anything????

Thanks. I apologize for any typos, I typed this quick, so I can head back out. Not to mention I'm sleep deprived.

Added: Leesburg vet said to hold off on surgery, because from the sounds of it she doesn't need it *yet*. She said sometimes she has to tube horses as often as twice a day and that within a couple days they're passing mineral oil. She also said I should/could let her eat a few bites of fresh grass here and there as we're walking.

I'm torn about who I listen to....

 

[REO]

Michelle, I'm sorry I have nothing to offer except more prayers for Sky and hugs for you. I can only imagine the h*!! you're going through. I wish something could be done to help her! You're doing everything you can to get her the best help.

Hang in there, you're in my thoughts.

 

[mountain_waif]

....

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

I am so sorry how frustrating.. I am not a vet but all I will say is logic would state nothing going in would = nothing going out?Has she truly had nothing at all to eat nothing? no very wet and sloppy beet pulp or grain or anything?

 

[Getitia]

I realize each vet is different - our vet will check for reflux first - If there is no reflux, then based on the diagnosis(gas colic, ulcers, possible impaction , etc.)the vet will normally tube them.

I would definitely speak to your vet about reintroducing her to feed. Have any of the vets discussed "when" to reintroduce feed and what type of feed?

Leesburg vet said to hold off on surgery, because from the sounds of it she doesn't need it *yet*. She said sometimes she has to tube horses as often as twice a day and that within a couple days they're passing mineral oil. She also said I should/could let her eat a few bites of fresh grass here and there as we're walking.

This vet's recommendation is similar to our vets approach.

Has your mare been tubed with mineral oil and if yes, has she passed oil yet? Typically if they have passed the oil, and are colic symptom free - then our vet's instructions are to start reintroducing the horse to feed - normally a soft hay - some grass and then a Senior feed in reduced amounts and more frequent feedings - along with soaked beet pulp.

I know how frustrating this can be - I will continue to pray for your girl's complete recovery.

 

[Minimor]

The last case of colic we had here was about the worst we've ever had (we've been very lucky with colic, & just haven't ever had to deal much with it) lasted 5 days. Vets here are reluctant to tube a horse with oil--not sure why, they just don't want to come & do it!

In any case, with this filly the vet did come & see her--he told us to give her banamine 2x a day as needed (and she did need that banamine--unlike your girl, our filly was far from "comfortable", was in pain constantly, just not as bad once the banamine kicked in), 20cc of mineral oil every 4 hours until she started passing good amounts of oil and 20cc of Anti-Gaz 2x a day. With our filly dehydration wasn't an issue--for as sick as she was, the vet was quite surprised that her gum color was so good & that she didn't dehydrate.

Our filly was allowed to eat--she'd nurse off & on, would drink water, and nibbled at food. We initially thought her colic was impaction from being switched from alfalfa to dry grass hay, so she was given green grass & fine alfalfa to nibble on--anything that would have a laxative effect on her. (As it turned out, she had WEE, and that had caused her intestinal tract to slow down, though her dry grass hay diet may have made the problem worse.) She wasn't eating any great amounts, but she would nibble. Like your girl, our filly would pass only tiny amounts of dry manure, only instead of pebbles she was passing little balls of manure--very hard, round balls. At the end of 5 days she passed a couple golf ball sized (or a little bigger) balls of manure, and that was the end of her colic. The amounts of manure she was passing during those 5 days were very small, but of course she was taking in such small amounts of food that there wasn't a whole lot to be passed through.

 

[Marty]

Nothing seems to be working here! I hate this with a passion! I for one am so frustrated over this and I am afraid to even say anything not being a vet, so I can just speak from experience.

I can tell you that in days before Sandblast, my horses in Florida were dropping like flies from sand and when the coliced, they were tubed with oil, water, and we gave banamine, and we walked and trotted them too sometimes depending on the situation, plus allowed them to graze a little bit if they desired to in hopes that the grass would help push things out that were stuck and get things moving along, and then if we had it, some would have fed a little tiny sloppy beet pulp mash too. I guess this is a whole nuther ballgame here with Sky though. The vet must suspect something other than sand colic I guess not to want to become more aggressive. I have no idea but different vets have different ways I suppose. I sure wish I had a crystal ball and knew what was going on inside her. I am sorry I have nothing to offer but prayers and lots of them.

I am going to ask her to tube again with warm water, mineral oil and electrolytes and ask about other stimulants. If she doesn't want to do it, I'll find someone who will.

I wouldn't have a clue what to do.

 

[wendi leigh]

If you are truly dealing with sand colic, print out this information and ask the vet about feeding bran and trotting her around, as they suggest. I use a vet in Easton, Maryland that is very reasonable and that I am very pleased with, if you want another second opinion.

http://www.equine-originals.com/sandcolic.htm

Hoping Sky get better through the night

 

[Frankie]

I was sure hoping for something on the positive side.

In this case, where you are, it is time to get tough!!!!! If what they are doing is not working, then use the HAVE to word pretty stern. I sure do know you are doing your best and so does Sky. I just wish they would be more aggressive for her.

Continued good thoughts, hang in there and know the forum family is here.

 

[virginia]

Ok, I can't stand this....I'm offering my opinion on what to do. The Vets in Leesburg are the best. They have the best and brightest from around the world training there. Three times I've brought minis there and was able to bring home two of them. The one that didn't make it was a foal with a badley cleft palette. Didn't really have a chance. The others were near deaths door but they pulled them through. They are expensive! But worth every penny. They did let me put the chrges on my Credit Card. Actually two credit cards.

Ok, here goes, I would definately go with their advise. It doesn't seem right not to oil and not to let her get something in her stomach. She'll starve to death before the colic gets her. Possibly mushy food, but something she is used to, just wet down would be best. And OIL OIL OIL. I just want to go to her and put my arms around her and love her. Do you have any good grass she could graze on for a bit? Have they taken an xray to see how big the blockage is? They should be able to tell at least somewhat on a filly that young and small.

I'm hoping she just had very bad gas and not much in her stomach and intestines.

Wish I were a Vet, I'd be over there in a heart beat. Please tell her I love her and I'm praying very hard for her.

Ginny StP

 

[Miniv]

Basically I'm feeling the same as both Lisa (RuffnTuff) and Ginny are......Nothing going in = Nothing coming out!

Is there a reason why she can't be tubed with warm water and/or oil?

Is there a reason why she can't be fed SOMETHING?

If it were me, I'd be asking "why?" to these questions from your vet(s).

MA

 

[Boss Mare]

Ok, I can't stand this....I'm offering my opinion on what to do.  The Vets in Leesburg are the best.  They have the best and brightest from around the world training there.  Three times I've brought minis there and was able to bring home two of them.  The one that didn't make it was a foal with a badley cleft palette. Didn't really have a chance.  The others were near deaths door but they pulled them through. They are expensive!  But worth every penny.  They did let me put the chrges on my Credit Card.  Actually two credit cards.
Ok, here goes, I would definately go with their advise.  It doesn't seem right not to oil and not to let her get something in her stomach.  She'll starve to death before the colic gets her.  Possibly mushy food, but something she is used to, just wet down would be best.  And OIL OIL OIL.  I just want to go to her and put my arms around her and love her.  Do you have any good grass she could graze on for a bit?  Have they taken an xray to see how big the blockage is?  They should be able to tell at least somewhat on a filly that young and small.

I'm hoping she just had very bad gas and not much in her stomach and intestines.

Wish I were a Vet, I'd be over there in a heart beat.  Please tell her I love her and I'm praying very hard for her.

Ginny StP

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Ginny,

The vet I spoke to in Leesburg suggested an x-ray, which I'm going to have done tomorrow. If my vet refuses, I'll be persistent and if she doesn't oblige I'll find someone who will. I mentioned an x-ray or sonogram to the second man vet who came out on the second day who saw Sky and he was totally against the idea and just about rolled his eyes at me.... Of course this is the guy who was totally against the fact that my German Shepherd is a dwarf, until he went into the back, read some pages in a book and then all of a sudden walked into the room 15 minutes later, suddenly an expert.

Leesburg said without surgery I'm looking at around $3,000.00+ and I believe they wanted half down and just to lay her on the table for surgery it would be anywhere from $5,000.00 +. I've thought about selling my truck and charging the rest, but I'd still need some kind of terms. If my vet doesn't begin to oblige and I don't see any results, Leesburg is my next choice, but I'm not waiting around for my vet to get her ___ together either.

Ginny, I've been telling Sky how much you love her and how much you're praying for her.... Sky and I have had many long 'talks'..... I put my first horse down on October 12, 2001 .... It's now early AM on October 10th..... I don't want history to repeat itself, so I am hoping the 12th will come of something good. It felt 100% right to put Samson down, it was a feeling I can't explain, you just know...... I haven't got that feeling with Sky.....

Basically I'm feeling the same as both Lisa (RuffnTuff) and Ginny are......Nothing going in = Nothing coming out! 
Is there a reason why she can't be tubed with warm water and/or oil?

Is there a reason why she can't be fed SOMETHING?

If it were me, I'd be asking "why?" to these questions from your vet(s). 

MA

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Her reason was "Depending on the type of blockage she'll perforate".... Well, what's she going to end up doing anyway?! Since we're not getting anywhere..... I've been sneaking Sky a small handful of fresh, wet grass several times a day for the past two days, just don't let my vet know.... Next, I'm thinking of taking shredded beet pulp, dry... Putting in into a blender to make it a little finer, then soak that very well and serving it while it's warm, just a small handful to begin with, but I keep questioning myself "Maybe my vet knows something I don't"....

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Sky has not passed any mineral oil or water..... Just those marble size pieces of manure.

 

[Miniv]

Michelle,

A few small handfulls of grass is one thing, but before feeding her anything like the mash, I'd question your vet on why they haven't even tubed her with even just WATER for so long?

It just doesn't seem right that you are being kept in the dark about YOUR OWN horse!

Please give Sky a nose kiss from us all.....

MA

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Michelle, deep breathes. I know you have had conflicting advice and I know you have been torn, but all the advice is heading one way now. The main reason we have so much trouble saving horses that have been deliberately or accidentally starved is that, after a while, the gut shrinks and the body starts to digest ITSELF. The gut, in effect, breaks down and feeds off itself. This starts amazingly quickly in horses. One of the reasons I loathe the fashion for super slim horses with a passion. In a sick filly this can go beyond the point of no return very very quickly. You need to get another Vet and do it fast. IME whatever the other, new, Super Vets say, surgery is no longer an option. IME when you get in there there will be so many patches of necrotic gut they will not know where to start- this happened to me with one of the Arabs- luckily I had the foremost gut specialist in the world on her case- she was the last one he did at my Royal Vet College, he has now moved to Edinburgh to the Royal Dick, and I think, may have moved again, possibly to the States, if so, lucky you!! The point being, because this was all he ever did he ignored all the little patches, removed 15 ft, which is the absolute maximum and left the rest to sort itself out. Which, with time, it did. He gave NO "no food" maxims, he told me to follow my heart, which I did. She foaled a year later!!! All this was done the day she colicked- he saids then any later was too late. I think you desperately need to get her eating- NO dry Beet- wet everything. Green grass, soaked hay (If you cannot get anything else- I would steer clear of hay if you can, soaked in boiling water or steamed if you can't) Wet sloppy feed- Bran, (I normally hate Bran!!) with a tiny amount of blender ground grains in it, Lots of bulk, and a very little actual food value in there. Little and often. This will stimulate the gut far more efficiently than oil or salts- Epsom Salts are far too abrasive at this point in her illness. I'll be blunt as I know you are far too tired to react too badly- this filly is dying on her feet, and your Vet is standing there and watching her because he is out of his depth. I would go for the ones you know can help her, at least if she is in the clinic you can get some sleep and some of the stress will be taken away. If you decide to keep her at home, get the other Vets on the case as advisers (OH, how I hate Vets that won't come out of their clinics!!!) and go with your heart- you have NOTHING to lose. She is passing tiny amounts because she has nothing else to pass. She is also passing her own system- and this is not good- think of yourself with a tummy bug- when it gets really bad, and you have eaten nothing, you start to get weak and you start eventually (believe me this is from personal experience!!) to pass blood and your stomach lining!! That is when you are told to eat something so the stomach, sick those it is, starts to process something else other than itself. Sweetie, we are all pulling with you, and I KNOW little Tio, God Bless him , is pulling for Sky, form beyond the Rainbow Bridge, he isn't ready to play with her yet, he can wait a few years. Hugs and prayers, Jane.

 

[ChrystalPaths]

Oh, my heart is just breaking for you. I agree with Jane & Lisa & Ginny 100%. At this point she'll starve to death, she must have something going in for anything to come out. I will pray for your strength and Sky's bravery and her will to live.

 

[Hosscrazy]

This is day five, Sky isn't allowed to eat

Michelle - no one knows your horses better than you do. But I agree - it does seem that your needs to eat in order to survive.

I know you have a lot on your plate right now, but just my opinion...nothing else...I think you may want to think about bringing her to Leesburg. This is day five, and you may want to have some more aggressive intervention at this point.

 

[Jill]

I'm so sorry and upset that you are getting conflicting advice. When Khaki colicked, she was insured and the first thing I asked the vet her first trip out was "what's the time frame if this is surgical". She and the surgeons were all on the same page, so I really didn't have to do anything other than get her to the hospital. If I had to try and figure out which professional to believe, I think I'd have fallen appart. It's not "our" job to know, it's theirs and when the disagree... urgh. But, I feel like the others and when I read it's been five (5) days since she has been allowed to eat, my heart jumped. I'm afraid of the damage she can be experiencing from no nutrition. Is there anything in the IV's (like glucose?) to give her energy? I'm worried about starvation but also think like has been said -- she can't make poop w/o the ingredients going in. I hope you get some answers soon. I can tell you I was very, very happy with Blue Ridge in that without them, I wouldn't have Khaki but was very upset that after I busted butt to get her to the hospital so quick, I felt like having to open her again the 2nd day negated that effort. I have also heard good things about Leesburg and been to their facility with a friend and they have a very impressive hospital. Just go with your gut on who to listen to, but I do think something needs to be done in the way of getting food / tubing / something going on with Sky. My prayers are ongoing!

 

[virginia]

Michelle, any news???

 

[Ojai Minis]

Hi Michelle,

I'm hoping that you are resting. I just wanted to share my story. My Paint gelding (big horse) had a 5 day colic. We tubed him, enemas, banamine, etc. Through the whole thing his vitals stayed good so we did not take him anywhere. By the 5th day he still had not really passed much. Just the little balls like Sky was doing. I finally said, this horse either has to eat or we need to do something. There was no way anything was going to move if there was nothing to move it. So, I finally started him back up on a little hay and he quickly got better!!! I can feel for you, sweetie. I had no one to cover me and I lived in the barn for 5 days.

Sending good thoughts,

Liz V.