So, who decided it'd be neat to show Mini halter horses like dogs?

[mininik]

I think we all know the halter class patterns and how the classes end up with a bunch of Miniatures all trying to present themselves "like Arabs" for sometimes in excess of 20 minutes at a time. WHY? Minis are far from being Arabs (in looks and capability), and yet they are asked to present themselves similarly EXCEPT even Arabs are not asked to show and show and show and show for one class. DOGS are shown like that in conformation classes, but you can hold almost any dog's focus on bait for much longer than any horse. Sure, there is the fine art of only presenting your horse "when the judges are looking," but how many times have you seen even seasoned professionals almost... bait... wait for it... oh! shoot, the other judge is looking... bait, bait, bait...

I think it's rediculous and I'd like to know I'm not alone. Better yet, I'd love to discuss some alternatives to our current pattern and see if there might be enough interest in making these changes happen.

Here's a visual:

Dogs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xdmylmlvw3g

Arabians:




I guess we must be modeling after Quarter Horses, too?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_D0U-A33lQk

PS. HAND SETTING... has got to go.

 

[Buckskin gal]

I too thought it was odd that minis were baited like dogs when we first got into the minis. Isn't it because of the influence of the Arabian trainers and handlers and dog owner/handlers that this came about? And another thing I don't like to see is the setting of the legs by the handler at a show for I think they should be trained to stand foursquare before going into the ring with them. I watch a lot of open classes and think the more natural four square stance seems more appropriate for horses. Not that I don't like to see the minis in a nice stance with ears perked! I see the trend now to show thr minis a lot more like the Shetlands are shown but that could be because there are a lot of Shetland judges doing minis especially in AMHR. Interesting observance anyway. Mary

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Can't think.

Maybe that is why we don't???

 

[mininik]

So, how do you show them across the pond, Jane?

 

[user 488]

I have often wondered why you would expect a Mini to be "ON" for the entire length of the class. We (Arabians) present our horses individually in center ring and then again in a final walk around like you will see on that U tube video. That way a horse has some relaxation and "down" time during a class. Better for the horse......better for the handlers. In fact it is a RULE that we cannot school at any time on the rail except for the 2nd and 3rd horse in line getting ready to show and on the final walk around.

Arabs are much more animated than Minis anyway so how could you expect a Mini to use their ears and show for 30 minutes or more when even an Arab would give up. Doesn't make any sense. All you are teaching them is boredom and burnout.

We don't "bait" Arabs to stand up the way they do. It's all training......body movements, hand movements, etc. Much more technical. Yes, we give them carrots but we do not give carrots when they are standing up in the ring. Who wants a horse chewing and slobbering when showing in front of the judges?

And I agree about hand setting. Is a Mini not smart enough to learn how to stand without bending over and placing their legs? Nothing worse to me then a bunch of handlers with their butts up in the air.

LOL! Teach a horse how to WHOA. I guess I don't get it.

Thank you Mininik for bringing this up. I don't think it will change anything but others might learn something and that's all that matters. I'm all for making the horses happier and they are a lot happier when they don't have to show for 30 or more minutes at a time.

 

[kaykay]

I have asked so many people about this and seems to be a 50/50 split. Some feel you should "show" the entire time you are out there. Others say only show when the judge is there.

Especially in bigger classes this can be a real problem.

I so agree we should not make them be "on" the entire time

 

[mininik]

Exactly, Carol.

Here's the only video of a Mini halter class I could find on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q41QJ9ut9Fg

THAT is what I see a lot of when watching or participating in Mini halter classes. Sure you see more respect out of the older horses and those shown by seasoned professionals, but most handlers are still setting their horses feet, tinkering around back and forth in line up or getting snipped at.



Above is a class of yearling Arabians. Notice how they are able to set their own feet, keep their mouths shut and WHOA. Amazing!

 

[user 488]

Exactly, Carol.

Above is a class of yearling Arabians. Notice how they are able to set their own feet, keep their mouths shut and WHOA. Amazing!

I'm laughing........the Yearling Colt classes are the worst. OH! The colts are so full of themselves. But yes, they do stand up and do their job. You won't see anyone placing feet. It's a long process. But WHOA is the most important thing to teach your horse..........AND MEAN IT. From whoa you can teach them a multitude of things.

 

[mininik]

I brought up the yearling class for that reason. I know they're not perfect, but can you imagine having to hand set those colts? Or try to show them while they're grabbing for treats? The system the Arabian breed uses of standing the horses up for a few moments individually, and then again on the rail as a class makes for much happier horses who aren't bored out of their minds or burnt out by the end (beginning or middle) of the class. It may not be the answer for the Miniature breed, but it certainly shows the room for improvement over what we've got!

 

[Minimor]

I've often thought the exact same thing. I've shown Morgans for years, and in big classes we just didn't have to try and make our horses "show" the entire time they're out in the ring. Quite frankly, I figured the difference was that Mini people just don't really know any better. Sorry, but that's the way it looks to me! Besides showing Morgans regularly I've also been to--and worked at (ring steward)--a good many Arabian shows.

Baiting the Miniatures--now that's silly & just makes Miniature exhibitors a joke to big horse people. The very first time we showed our Minis was at a local fair and the other exhibitors were watching me (yes, I was showing my Minis just as if I were showing a Morgan...no baiting) and they were talking about a sanctioned Mini show they'd been to, and the people there, they said, were actually FEEDING their horses in the ring. They figured it was just the goofiest thing they'd ever seen.

I like my horses to be trained to stand up & show before I taken them in the ring, doesn't matter if they're big horses or little horses, they can all learn to place their feet & "hold it" on cue--with training they all set up just on cues with the lead shank, and if one foot is a little slow on moving into position I just have to point at the offending foot and it moves. I can remember going to a QH show one time & laughing at all the exhibitors that were hand setting their horses and even combing manes in the ring. Or even longer ago, at a local Morgan show, one newbie was out in the ring & actually dropped her lead shank to walk back & place her horse's hind foot--the audience just roared with laughter, because hand placing just wasn't done...even if one kept hold of the lead shank!

Baiting...I've always wondered why it is necessary. I train with treats at home, but in the show ring my horses are supposed to show interest when I scuffle my gloved fingers together in front of them. I might even pick up a bit of arena dirt and trickle it in front of them and have been known to pick a tiny bit of arena grass & trickle that in front of them--common tricks when showing Morgans, but allowing the horse to eat that grass was strictly forbidden. Eating = unattractive mouth movements and yes, even some slobbery stuff to mess up that nice clean muzzle... My horses always get a treat when they come out of the ring, and well they know it too. But showing Minis...everyone says you HAVE to take bait into the ring with you... Shakers & noisemakers....sorry, but I think they should be banned from the ring! You know what makes my horses look alert & really show off their necks & ears? A cell phone ring. Can I take my cell phone into the ring & play the various ring tones when I need my horse's attention????? That's about what it comes down to it seems.

And the gyrations from the handlers. It wouldn't be so bad if all those gyrations actually did some good, but from what I've seen...they don't. The horses become oblivious. Now, I've seen some Arabian handlers that have some real moves too, but it's not quite the same...I can think of one guy that could stand in front of his horse and lean way back--think of someone that is very good at doing the limbo!--and as he leaned over backward, his horse's head would follow--the further he leaned, the more that horse swanned his neck. Now that was impressive, and it was training--it worked every time.

 

[CKC]

It wasn't this way years ago when I showed. I stopped showing for a little bit. When I decided to start showing again a few years ago this is what I saw in the ring. I showed once since then at an R show. I tried to do the movements (for about a second) and to be honest just felt plain silly. Decided to stand there and have my horse stand.... We won the class.

 

[Lewella]

At one of our club shows a couple of years ago a local gal who owned minis but had never shown was there helping out as a gate person. After watching a handful of halter classes she said to me "I can't do that....there is no way I can do the mating dance of the Sandhill crane!". OH! OH!

 

[skanzler]

Now this is an entertaining subject. I have to agree with mininiki. I would love to see us show our horses el natural. I am a trainer, but that does not mean that I agree with the way we show our minis.

Many horses would fall apart standing square and natural without stretching and hand setting and all the bluster that many people do to get thier horses to look thier best. Have you ever watch a horse in class stand up and go WOW, then retire to the rail and fall apart? I have.

I have been told by a judge that he judges the class to the very end and if you stop showing your horse to its' best before he handed in his card, he might just mark you down for it. I am not saying this was the right thing to do, but this was his opinion. He felt that if he was spending the time to judge your horse, you better be willing to get that one last look.

I do use bait in the class if I absolutely need it. So therefore I take it in. If I do not need it, it stays in my pocket. Many time I will just reach for my pocket and my horse will perk up. I do not feed my horse in class, that is a big no no. The horses is rewarded when we are finished.

I agree that we need to figure out a different way of showing and judging these huge classes. Standing your horse up for 20-30 minutes a class is rediculous. It make unhappy handlers and horses.

Showing individually would take alot more time, unless the judges were willing to look and judge in a prompt manner. It would certainly keep handlers from handsetting to cover up those cowhocks and crooked front legs. I like the way the arabs show: Walk out step up your horse into stance and show.....

We need to show our AMHA/AMHR horses like AMHA/AMHR horses, not like arabs, quarter horses or dogs. These are miniatures, why don't we just come up with our own way of showing, instead of copying others. This is exactly why the larger breeds don't take us seriously. We can't even figure out how to show our horses appropriately for the breed.

 

[susanne]

One thing for sure...

If we were to show minis like Arabs (one at a time, then trot together), nobody could claim that the judge didn't give their horse a fair look.

I also like that (I assume this is what is in tended) the judge would first compare the horse to the standard of perfection, then to one another.

I so agree that handsetting is silly and unnecessary. I guess this is where my bad back and knees has come in handy...I couldn't do it if I wanted to!

Show bozo that I am, I still was easily able to teachh Mingus and Scarlet to set up via verbal command and stepping them into position. When I say "feet," Mingus gets the most comical, determined look on his face as he very deliberately moves his feet to where they need to be...he wants to be sure I see him doing it!

And I'm sure many horses are like Mingus in that baiting causes way more problems than it solves. Even in training at home, we now give a treat at the end of a session, not for every little move or as bait.

 

[Jetiki]

Whats annoying is when you are in a multiple judge class, with some apprentice judges or whom ever is sateliting around the main judges and you end up with like 6 people walking around the horses it makes it really difficult to keep up with who's who and who's doing what. Makes you feel the need to "show" the horse the entire class. I do like though when they are done and turning in the cards some judges say thank you so that we can go to the rail or relax for a few moments before they start to call the placings.

I like my horses to set their feet when I ask them to before we get to the ring. I have back and limb issues and I am too fat to do the chicken dance. I do use bait but I try not to feed them during the class, I too find this kind of silly but sometimes necessary to get the neck/ears.

Karen

 

[keely2682]

definately an interesting topic-

i agree that we need to do something different

the horses do look wonderful showing the whole time in a halter class but the handlers look rediculous!

it is a lot of work to keep a horse interested that long

 

[runamuk]

I also have wondered about bait and handstacking

and just for comparison..........here is a video of a great dane show and you will notice the dogs are not kept stacked and baited most stand quite casually while waiting to to be examined and have their turn in front of the judge.

 

[MiniHunterHorseFan]

I must admit I though the handlers with all there hand movements in halter classes do look pretty silly. At the Nationals I saw one lady who look like she was casting a spell on her horse or charming a snake. LOL Since I'm new at halters classes I actually was thinking thats what one does to get a horse to look so nice. As for baiting though, my horse seems to only want to stretch his neck out for a little bit of hay. If we keep it covered and don't let him eat it, I don't see too much wrong with that. As for handsetting I admit I still do that when I'm practicing so I guess I need more practice.

 

[wildoak]

Good topic. I came from Quarter horses so am not so familiar with Arabian halter classes, but QH you set the horse up (you can handset but most don't find it necessary), stand and show. No baiting, no dancing, no gymnastics LOL. It took me awhile to get past all the gyrations that go on in our halter classes.

Baiting has always seemed inappropriate to me, but I will say I do it - might not be necessary if we didn't have to be "on" the entire class but I find it incredibly difficult to hold a horse's attention for the length of a big class. I would love to see a new approach to this.

Jan

 

[kenna]

It's not even modeled after dogs -- dogs are not required to be "on" for an entire class, especially a large one. When the judge is doing individual examinations, many exhibitors will play with their dogs to get them up and excited, or just relax in line until their turn approaches.

I agree -- it needs to be changed. It's a lot easier to keep a horse's attention for 2 minutes than for 20+ minutes