stallion attacking child

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Well, i have not read all the post on here, but i saw your sons back. I dont have to see any more to know that if that happened here, whether it be your child, my child, or anyone else,that horse would no longer eat at my barn. I hope he enjoyed that last meal at your house, because that should be the last time that horse should benefit from your hospitality.

I will NOT tolerate or feed a bad temper in ANY species.

He would have a one way ticket to the next auction able to run him through. If there is not one tomorrow somewhere Call animal control, and have him picked up.

Horses are not predictable, but let me assure you, I AM.
 
All I'm going to say is that no horse should be totally trusted with any child. Children ARE unpredicatable, loud, obnoxious (yes I have one of my own), move too fast, and aren't always the most gentle. They also do NOT understand equine body language. Stallions bite. They just do. Even the most easy going stallion will bite if bothered enough. My own son was bit in the back while cleaning stalls by a 3 year old mare who was TIED in a corner in the stall. He was being obnoxious and loud and she had enough of it. It doesn't matter how long a horse and child, or any animal and child for that matter, have known each other. When an animal can not escape or feels threatened, they will act out. I have to closely watch mares with new foals around my son. He's over whelmed by the cuteness and just doesn't understand that the mares see him (and anyone or thing else) as a threat to their new babies. I only hope that he takes my warnings to heed and if he doesn't, well, we'll just consider it a learning opportunity. But no animal will be removed from my property for acting appropriately when threatened. Its a lesson WE have to learn, they are just doing what comes naturally.
 
Posted Today, 10:37 AM

All I'm going to say is that no horse should be totally trusted with any child. Children ARE unpredicatable, loud, obnoxious (yes I have one of my own), move too fast, and aren't always the most gentle. They also do NOT understand equine body language. Stallions bite. They just do. Even the most easy going stallion will bite if bothered enough. My own son was bit in the back while cleaning stalls by a 3 year old mare who was TIED in a corner in the stall. He was being obnoxious and loud and she had enough of it. It doesn't matter how long a horse and child, or any animal and child for that matter, have known each other. When an animal can not escape or feels threatened, they will act out. I have to closely watch mares with new foals around my son. He's over whelmed by the cuteness and just doesn't understand that the mares see him (and anyone or thing else) as a threat to their new babies. I only hope that he takes my warnings to heed and if he doesn't, well, we'll just consider it a learning opportunity. But no animal will be removed from my property for acting appropriately when threatened. Its a lesson WE have to learn, they are just doing what comes naturally.

Carin Ponder, RVT

Iola, TX

Pondering Oaks Stables - Training and Sales

Home of Pinto WORLD CHAMPIONS Happy Hooligan OK (HOF/ROM), CSF Rosie Flores (ROM), and Heaven's Gate Special Design (ROM)

I have to support you 100% on this.. I have a filly that has kick my son 3 times. I will not remove her from our property because of this.. Hunter has been bitten too but did I remove the mare no I did not. Hunter will stay a way from this mare and filly.
 
I can assure you that my stallion will not be going any where. My son will learn just like we all have. My point was that I was just so surprised at this evil side after having this guy 5 years and never seeing it. My son was NOT noisy, obnoxious or fast he was simply walking past. I wanted advice on how to make my stallion happy again but i seem to have received many lectures on how to be a mother and run a yard.

Hopefully I will have learnt
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You don't need to learn anything from this Renee you sound like a great mum n great horse owner Alby was walking past eagle was feeling off it was an

Accident that happened due to changes in eagles life it's a pity Alby walked past at the time he wanted to express his annoyance I know you must have been heartbroken from this display n Alby wold have been too yes Alby will be more careful next time it is a good lesson never to trust a stallion but it was an accident n accidents happen

I think you are a brilliant mum n horse breeder/ owner

N yes mum I'm going back to sleep lol

Love you Renee!!!
 
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Wasn't trying to "learnt" you on mothering.
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Just being another voice of reason for ANYONE ELSE that may believe otherwise when it comes to these minis. They can be quite evil when it strikes them!
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We have a young stallion that is well socialized, gets along well with other horses, is well mannered, etc.....but bring out the feed bucket and he gets very food aggressive. Has he bit me? Not yet. Will he? Probably. Will I get mad? yes. Will I correct him? yes Will I take him to the closest sale barn? No. If he bites me, its my fault. I know his temperment at feed time and if I turn my back on him or let me guard down....well then I deserve the reminder! We work with him on it but some things are just what they are and its up to me to make sure I keep myself safe.

Just like when I go out to feed the mares. They get pushy with each other and sometimes I get in the middle. For the most part, they don't crowd but every now and then we all need a reminder.
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I don't really like hearing the word "evil" when it comes to a horse or animal acting ... well... like an animal. Stallions have a poor reputation... but it is because they are very hormone-driven animals and are often not treated with the care and respect they need.

The horse was not evil... it was put in a situation where it was not given the respect it needed.

Children do not belong with stallions of any size.

Andrea
 
Has he bit me? Not yet. Will he? Probably. Will I get mad? yes. Will I correct him? yes Will I take him to the closest sale barn? No. If he bites me, its my fault. I know his temperment at feed time and if I turn my back on him or let me guard down....well then I deserve the reminder!
I completely disagree with the underlined. It is never anyone's fault if a horse bites them, other than if they didn't correct it the first time it happens and they allow it to happen again. I don't care if it is a stallion, mare, youngster, etc., biting is not acceptable. John Lyons has said that biting is an aggressive, not defensive, behavior, and if it happens you have 3 seconds to "kill" the horse (heads are off limits). If biting behavior is "expected" then I would be working on an attitude adjustment during feeding time. I don't tolerate horses even putting their ears back at me during feeding. If they want to do that, they will find in short order that they just won't get fed. And if they continue it, they learn that mom is the boss and to lay their ears back at me will get mom to "bite back".

No, I don't trust stallions, but I sure don't allow them to have "stallion behavior" just because they still are intact! If that was the case, nobody could do anything with them. I have the same standards for all my horses.
 
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This has been a very educational thread - especially if someone new to horses is reading this and I bet there are a few.

What Eagle did is not acceptable but not at all surprising. The child, as I understand it, was not unattended in the stall with him, but the horse was able to reach over/between the wall/gate/divider/whatever and make contact with the child. Should Eagle have gotten a "come to Jesus" meeting afterwards? He would have at my house! But he was acting like a stallion - unpredictable. Would I take him to the nearest sale barn? No. If for some reason a horse started acting like that and wouldn't stop and become unsafe even for an adult...then I would have some decisions to make. The horse still wouldn't go to the sale barn because that is just pushing the problem off on some unsuspecting person. If I had a horse that I believed in my heart was unsafe and not "fixable" I would put that horse down humanely and know that nobody else would be harmed and the horse would also not be in danger of being mistreated because of his issues.

I'm glad the OP posted this topic. It has been a good discussion of what can and sometimes does happen when working around horses.
 
This is Eagle's stall and as you can see he can only just reach out which is probably why he did minimal damage. Alby was stood by the divider as I was cleaning the first stall.



Hubby is now going to close the front off to the same height as the partitions, they will still be able to see each other but they won't be able to reach over the doors. I will make it with hinges so that I can leave them open at night.
 
Eagle, I'm sorry your stallion had a moment, and I hope your son is going to recover both physically, and in his love for his horse. But I do have to say, I think your stalls are really neat!
 
Parmela I agree with you in that any horse that proved to be a danger (with little or no reason) to humans should be humanely destroyed. Never would I consider sending it to a sale and passing the buck to someone else, for the horses sake as much as any new owners sake - you can imagine the treatment the poor animal might get as folks tried to 'sort it out'.

In the course of some 50 years with horses I have had two such animals. One was sold to me for my g/children (gelding), but although he was quite perfect during the several times we went to see and try him, I became suspicious within weeks of having him home. Luckily the children were still a school and had no free time to be around him. I was sure he had a screw loose/tumour or something, he just wasn't right. He wasn't an expensive buy as he was elderly, and I had him quietly put down. Should I have taken him back? A lot of folk would have, but what about the next people he would be passed on to - they might have been inexperienced and that would have been an accident waiting to happen, and in a local community I would have heard about it and never have forgiven myself.

The second one was an old mare that I had had for years, the sweetest girl you could hope to find. But she started slowly to get unsettled and after several months, nearly caught me out as she went to attack me. She stopped just before she reached me and I looked straight at her and could actually see as her eyes seemed to 'clear' and the normal sweet expression returned. She walked forward and laid her head in my arms. Two days later I had her quietly put down at home, absolutely convinced that something in her brain was wrong and that she tried to tell me about it.

There are many horses out there, I'm sure, that have mental and physical problems that often cause them great pain, and are maybe incurable, and then there are the folk who, instead of taking the kind humane route, are content to pass them on for someone else to deal with. The poor horse then begins the downward spiral of being passed from home to home, suffering goodness knows what until the end. Sorry, but this is something I feel very strongly about!

That said I have also given a home to many horses who have been badly treated/starved/beaten/tormented, and with kindness and understanding they have all come round and lived long and happy lives (they never got sold on!), but then these horses had been ruined by humans, they were not suffering from an incurable problem.
 
I do so agree Anna. Certainly, temperament - goood and bad, is often inherited, just as conformation.

Having been in dogs and horses for a very long time, good temperament should always be uppermost in the breeder's decision. That said, so many times I have seen animals with biting and other issues, described as having been abused and the owner making excuses for their poor behaviour. More often than not, such animals have not been 'abused' at all, but just not raised and trained properly. A 'come to Jesus' talk, will often make them understand that they are not nearly as high in the heirachy of their situation, as they had come to believe.

Most dog bites are from whole, male dogs. If they had only been neutered, the vast majority of these bites would not have occurred. Lets face it, there are really comparitively few dogs and horses alive today, who are of the quality to be passing on their genetics to the next generation.

Sudden changes in behaviour, can almost always be traced. Loss of eyesight and hearing, is something I have seen which has often been seen. In senior animals, it is often a cause. Illness can be another cause. It must always be up to the owner, to seek out and find the cause of changes in a given animal's behaviour.

Many years ago, I sold a Great Dane puppy to a lovely lady. She later gave him to her elderly parents. They adored him but failed to set any limits. He eventually completely controlled their household. I was asked to take him back. As a responsible breeder, of course I did. Yes, he was quite a challange. After a year of some intense obedience training and many 'talks', he became my most treasured Great Dane of all my years in the breed. I miss him to this day and it's thirty two years later. I currently have an almost fifteen year old Brussels Griffon. He is probably the sweetest fellow I ever bred. But now, having lost his sight and hearing, he will bite anyone whom he smells but does not recognise. We understand that, so when guests visit, he is kept away from them. At his age, he is still a happy fellow around us and gets wild and happy at feeding time and even gets silly and plays. We understand his limits with others though and make the appropriate decisions for him daily.

I think when dealing with any animals who have displayed some behaviour which we don't like, we must first discover the reason and then act accordingly. If an animal is very dangerous and has not responded to intervention, then the worst decision, is to pass it on to someone else. The correct decision, is to put him/her away quietly, in the security of their own home.

By the way Anna, I have loved your website. When I need my Welsh fix, I shall revisit it. My mother's family are still all in Wales. Made me very homesick for home.

Lizzie
 
This is Eagle's stall and as you can see he can only just reach out which is probably why he did minimal damage. Alby was stood by the divider as I was cleaning the first stall.



Hubby is now going to close the front off to the same height as the partitions, they will still be able to see each other but they won't be able to reach over the doors. I will make it with hinges so that I can leave them open at night.
Looking at your stalls, I think it might be possible that he did not know who was over there. he already knew there was a stallion somewhere around and you did say Alby was very quiet. He may have reacted so fast that he didn't realize who it was untill it was too late to stop. Just a thought.
 
I completely disagree with the underlined. It is never anyone's fault if a horse bites them, other than if they didn't correct it the first time it happens and they allow it to happen again. I don't care if it is a stallion, mare, youngster, etc., biting is not acceptable. John Lyons has said that biting is an aggressive, not defensive, behavior, and if it happens you have 3 seconds to "kill" the horse (heads are off limits). If biting behavior is "expected" then I would be working on an attitude adjustment during feeding time. I don't tolerate horses even putting their ears back at me during feeding. If they want to do that, they will find in short order that they just won't get fed. And if they continue it, they learn that mom is the boss and to lay their ears back at me will get mom to "bite back".

No, I don't trust stallions, but I sure don't allow them to have "stallion behavior" just because they still are intact! If that was the case, nobody could do anything with them. I have the same standards for all my horses.
That's what i am scream'in!!! Last time i checked i was still at the top of the food chain, and i dont see that changing any time soon at my farm
 
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This thread is very educational. Thank you for posting. I hope Eagle and your son are doing well today.
 
Today is Sunday so I will take Alby to the barn to see how Eagle behaves. I haven't let Alby come since his little accident as I wanted Eagle to chill out a bit. He has been out with a girl that is pregnant by him and even though they don't hang out together at least he has company. I will keep you posted
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Good luck Renee - my thoughts are with you and Alby.
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Lizzie, feel free to 'visit' Wales whenever you want. Whereabouta are your Mother's family living? My apologies for the state of the website - daughter is trying to update it and getting herself in a muddle LOL!! Pictures keep 'disappearing' as she changes things, but she will get it sorted in the end.
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Its a stallion... people forget that even small stallions are still stallions. NEVER TRUST A STALLION!

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Iam very sorry to hear about your little boy hope he ok now

but i agree never trust a stallion,, even some mares and geldings can snap all of a sudden.......
 

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