Studding out a Stallion

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I love you guys! Thank you so much for your kindness, it really does mean a lot as I've been looking up to you all for so long. As I mentioned to someone last night, the kids that come here either grow up or leave... and I sincerely wish more of them stuck around to feel the enormous amount of love and support this forum has to offer when give the chance, because it's been so beyond worth it for me!

Huge hugs to my forum family!
 
"i wont be breeding until my mare and stallion both mature and fill out so i can see if they meet what i want to produce and show. i already have what i like in my head and in my backyard(lol!) i do plan on keeping the first foal of both my mares when the time comes, no matter what they are or what they look like. if i dont like how they look i'll keep them but refrian from breeding until i can find/afford better stock. "

Now THIS is what I was hoping to hear from you!! THIS is an intelligent, adult response and attitude! Good for you, young lady!

MOG - Michigan Old Hag!
 
Alex brings up a valid point here. From reading the earlier posts, I understand that you (MRM) feel that your parents don't take your minis seriously. I can understand your irritation and frustration when you feel that we don't take you seriously, either. I can also understand that you want your animals to be more than just some backyard pets. But if your parents aren't "into" minis, I have to think that you haven't been "into" them terribly long, either. Are you sure you have already developed the eye for a really good mini? You want to be a breeder (who doesn't?) but can you spot the animal with "take it to Nationals" potential? Does this little stallion that you are about to acquire have what it takes to possibly be the next Buckaroo? Are your fillies likely to produce babies that could be that good, or would you be risking their lives to produce middle of the road babies that (on a good day) might barely fetch a price that will cover the feed and vet bills that it cost to get them on the ground? Do you believe your animals are going to make a real contribution to the breed, or are you breeding them just because they happen to come equipped with reproductive organs?

If you have spent much time on this forum, you have surely seen a number of threads about foals that didn't make it, or mares that were lost due to complications. Things are slowing down there now, but I'd suggest spending a couple of foaling seasons hanging out on the Marestare website before committing yourself to the headaches and heartaches of breeding. Just watching and reading can be painful enough, without having to bury the bodies and pay the bills. Even if nothing goes wrong, it doesn't mean that everything will go right, either. I breed rabbits; I regularly get "awesome" and "ho-hum" in the same litter. Bloodlines alone don't impress me much, because I know even show-stoppers can produce only so-so, at least some of the time. Foals with poor conformation can still live 30 years or more, what happens to them?

When I first "discovered" minis, I wanted to breed, too. How can anyone resist the appeal of a fuzzy little foal the size of a Cocker Spaniel? But cruise a few salesboards, and reality begins to rear its ugly head. There are hundreds of minis for sale within an hour or two's drive of me, most in the pastures of "me too" breeders that wouldn't recognise a National Champion if it stepped on their toe. (Of course, it probably wouldn't be in their pasture in the first place, because their breeding animals aren't in that league!) In a world already flooded with mediocre quality minis, where animals with national championships are selling for rock bottom prices, the last thing the mini world needs is for me to jump into the already full breeder pool. You don't have to justify your decision to me, but have you really thought about this? I'm not saying absolutely don't ever get into breeding, more like not now, not yet. Put your passion into training and showing for now, and save breeding for a time when the market can better bear it. You may say "oh, that's alright. The foal will have a forever home with me," but that would mean you may be saddled with that horse until you are my age (yeah, I'm an old hag, too. You realize you may never live that down!
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Even if minis aren't very big, breeding them involves adult sized decisions, and potential adult sized consequences (not just for you, for the animals, too.) I'm not questioning whether you are capable of handling them, just asking, are you sure you want to? I decided that for me to add more animals to an already burgeoning population would be irresponsible, given the current state of things. You, of course, will make your own decisions; that is part of growing up. I wish you joy in them, whatever they are.
Bunny Lady, I love your post. I share a VERY similar opinion to you on this issue
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I think more "breeders" should heed your advice!

On another note, I personally don't see "open" shows a valid merit of show ring worth in comparison to large AMHR or AMHA sanctioned horse shows. Nor do I find a(singular) Championship tittle that huge of a selling feature. Some horses from my area are outstanding in quality, and it is common for a GOOD horse to achieve Championship tittles again and again, against plenty of tough competition. HOF's are held by many horses in my area, as some of the best horses/farms are in my area (McCarthy, Buckeye, Taylor Pony Farm, Little Kings Farm etc. are just some of the huge names... There are many more
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). So when I look for a horse, I'm looking for something extra special. But that is just me.

Best of luck to each breeder in their search for their perfect breeding herd. It is by no means an easy task!
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On another note, I personally don't see "open" shows a valid merit of show ring worth in comparison to large AMHR or AMHA sanctioned horse shows.
In a way I agree, but on the other hand, I don't.
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A breed Championship is nice...very nice...but it depends very much upon how many horses that horse had to beat, to become a Champion. I have known of "National Champions" who've never been in a class of more than four or five horses...in some driving classes, even less.

Now here, in our open shows, we show all sizes of horses together..."A" and "B" horses compete as one, in both halter and driving. My former stallion, at just over 30 inches would regularly go hi-point of the show, in all classes, even jumping, roadster and speed events...in classes of 20-24 horses. You can never tell me that doesn't mean more than had he become a Champion at any sanctioned shows competing against horses of only his own size.

Give me the open show do it all versatile horse any day, over a Champion that might of won in ONE class of even 20 horses, that are all of his/her own size.

OOOPS...digressing here, but just had to say that. I do get tired of hearing that a horse isn't "breeding quality" unless it has a sanctioned show Halter Championship.
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"i wont be breeding until my mare and stallion both mature and fill out so i can see if they meet what i want to produce and show. i already have what i like in my head and in my backyard(lol!) i do plan on keeping the first foal of both my mares when the time comes, no matter what they are or what they look like. if i dont like how they look i'll keep them but refrian from breeding until i can find/afford better stock. "

Now THIS is what I was hoping to hear from you!! THIS is an intelligent, adult response and attitude! Good for you, young lady!

MOG - Michigan Old Hag!

thanks! that hag thing is gonna stick with me forever isn't it? lol
 
I do get tired of hearing that a horse isn't "breeding quality" unless it has a sanctioned show Halter Championship.
I bet there are a lot of "backyard" horses that could actually go out and win major halter classes, but don't get shown. But, "the proof is in the pudding". Don't tell me how good your horse is, show it to me!
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However, that being said, there are also times that the trends we see in the halter ring don't necessarily follow logical attributes either. Like, for example, I like a performance horse with a little bit of angularity in their hind legs, what some would consider slightly "cow hocked", because I find that too straight horses can't move as well. This is a big reason why many halter horses are not necessarily performance horses and vice versa in the big horse world. Are we just breeding our horses to look at, or do we want them to do something?

This really is a whole other thread, but I agree. If you are going to breed a horse, have a plan for the offspring's future, other than $$$$ that really only turns out to be $ or less. Do something with your horse instead of just "feed it and lead it"!
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It's a whole lot more fun!
 
that hag thing is gonna stick with me forever isn't it? lol
Stick around here long enough and one of these days you'll be one of us old hags LOL. It's not such a bad thing to be!
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Jan
 
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Boy do I remember the days when I thought no one liked me, I didn't really like many on here cuz I thought they disliked me well since that time I'm proud to say I've made some great freinds thru this forum like love caspedr (alex) morning mist (sydney) and barnbum (karla), and back when I started I was veryyyy naive I thought when my dad was gonna let me get minis ide buy two mares breed them sell the foals and make 5000 bucks, oh boy was I wrong and thank god that never happened, since then I've turned up my nose at breeding and would like to train show and rescue minis instead, and alex, I must say you've become a very dear friend of mine I always enjoy talking with you and when you took me under your wing when were both young kids (I still am darn!) I felt so accepted, and I really miss our converstions, believe me we were all there and we all lear from it, I've expericenced discontempt both on here and in the llama industry I too look back and gasp and gag and smack myself in the noggin and say dan oh dan what on earth were you thinking when you typed that, happens in real life when I look back at all the ***** things I've said to people but all you can do is grow and fly higher because mistakes are made for a reason, to always learn from them, so you can choose to sit and ponder and depress over them (I'm guilty of that often) or brush it off and never make the mistake again and I know I'm souding like a scratched lady gaga cd all you can is learn and grow from them end of story! Soon you will learn to love this forum and be a lb addict (is there a little beginners annoynimous available mary lou?) Minis bring us togethor and unite us all as an industry and lifestlye hobbys pets busniess from all over the world, tghey build freindships and will listen to your problems when they disingrate, minis are not meant to drive us apart (unless your in a driving class) altho we all can't get a long I still belevie everyone no matter how many horses they have or how many years experience they have will always always always have something to contribute not only to the health and happiness of our animals but to the entire droves of people who respond to these threads. Dan
 
none of my mares are "dwarfy", i made 100% sure of that before purchasing
I am curious - how did you "make sure" of that "100%" when even very experienced breeders are often surprised to have a dwarf show up?
 
I am curious - how did you "make sure" of that "100%" when even very experienced breeders are often surprised to have a dwarf show up?

i did ALOT of research before doing any purchases and took pics of minimal dwarfs and full dwarfs with me when i went to see her and compared her to the pictures. she showed absolutely no sign of being a dwarf. she is very perportionate(sp?). also her parents have never produced a dwarf and they have had 6 foals together.
 
i did ALOT of research before doing any purchases and took pics of minimal dwarfs and full dwarfs with me when i went to see her and compared her to the pictures. she showed absolutely no sign of being a dwarf. she is very perportionate(sp?). also her parents have never produced a dwarf and they have had 6 foals together.

Just so you know, a cross can produce 6 "normal" foals and then suddenly a dwarf arrives. At this stage there is no way any of us can be absolutely 100% sure of there being no chance of a dwarf.... and if John Ebert's research cannot determine that, with all due respect I doubt that yours can...

There are also different "types" of dwarfs... some do not become evident until later in life...
 
Just so you know, a cross can produce 6 "normal" foals and then suddenly a dwarf arrives. At this stage there is no way any of us can be absolutely 100% sure of there being no chance of a dwarf.... and if John Ebert's research cannot determine that, with all due respect I doubt that yours can...

There are also different "types" of dwarfs... some do not become evident until later in life...

Just to add my 2 cents...

This is 100% accurate. Not everyone's eye is as skilled at seeing the subtle signs and then there are the ones that literally show no signs at all, have NO history in the pedigree of it, have many full siblings, and then one day you look out at your field and you're like "O M G! Is that horse starting to show signs?"

You know the saying "beauty is in the eye of the beholder?" Often the ability to see the dwarfishness in a horse is in someone's eye other than your own. I know. I've had it happen to me. Please search the forum for my long and painful public admission after my dear, well-bred, no history, etc. and EXPENSIVE stallion produced one. This of course was after I also paid for professional training for 2 years and he earned 4 World/National top tens in halter.

It happens and nobody is immune.

I know what you meant by stating your confidence. I'm just encouraging you to keep an open mind and never get comfortable that none of your horses could possible be carriers.
 
Just to add my 2 cents...

This is 100% accurate. Not everyone's eye is as skilled at seeing the subtle signs and then there are the ones that literally show no signs at all, have NO history in the pedigree of it, have many full siblings, and then one day you look out at your field and you're like "O M G! Is that horse starting to show signs?"

You know the saying "beauty is in the eye of the beholder?" Often the ability to see the dwarfishness in a horse is in someone's eye other than your own. I know. I've had it happen to me. Please search the forum for my long and painful public admission after my dear, well-bred, no history, etc. and EXPENSIVE stallion produced one. This of course was after I also paid for professional training for 2 years and he earned 4 World/National top tens in halter.

It happens and nobody is immune.

I know what you meant by stating your confidence. I'm just encouraging you to keep an open mind and never get comfortable that none of your horses could possible be carriers.

omg you mustve been so upset when you got a dwarf from him! i know i wouldve been. as of now she shows no signs, shes just very small lol.
 
omg you mustve been so upset when you got a dwarf from him! i know i wouldve been. as of now she shows no signs, shes just very small lol.
Parmela is as good as gold,a top notch breeder in my book. As painful as it was, she had him gelded, I believe she made arrangements almost immediately after he sired a dwarf. Her forum family was here to see her through.

When you've been here long enough, you tend to share in each others joys and miseries.

There is a wealth of info that the forum menbers can provide, they are one of the most outgoing bunch of people you will come across. All one has to do is to ask for there help.
 
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Parmela is as good as gold,a top notch breeder in my book. As painful as it was, she had him gelded, I believe she made arrangements almost immediately after he sired a dwarf. Her forum family was here to see her through.

When you've been here long enough, you tend to share in each others joys and miseries.

There is a wealth of info that the forum menbers can provide, they are one of the most outgoing bunch of people you will come across. All one has to do is to ask for there help.

sorry, but who's Parmela?
 
Ok.. call me a sensitive old hag but I have to take GREAT offense (and I know for a fact many other mini owners in Maine do as well) to this girls postings. Considering she said that there are no top quality show mini's in Maine. There are Many breeders and Owners with fine horses, even if they never have been shown at Nationals. Until recently I lived in Maine (where she lives) and I had THREE National top ten driving stallions that also showed well in halter well. I competed at AMHR nationals every year and Between myself and two other people we showed consistently for several years at both sanction AMHR show's and Nationals against top horses traveling great distances and spending great money to do so. I have shown horses for other people from Maine and done well with them as well. INFACT one of them was the breeder who she got a filly from and has repeatedly slandered. I also know that Molly has alienated herself from much of the Maine miniature community by being rude and overbearing to many of the people, in several cases she didn't even know she was doing it, just responding extremely rudly to e-mails of people she did not know about a sale of her horse! Believe me..word gets around fast in such cases! It's not that there ARE no mentors in Maine, It's that she's disrespected so many that they do not want anything to do with her.

I'm very sorry if I sound oversensitive, but I have spent great time, effort and money to have top quality show horses as well as many others, and to be run down and belittled as that is just outrageous. I hope she can understand how badly her reputation is being ruined and how hard it is going to be to change that reputation having offended such a vast majority of her peers!
 
sorry, but who's Parmela?
Parmela is "StarRidgeAcres" the post you replied to by saying "omg you mustve been so upset when you got a dwarf from him! i know i wouldve been. as of now she shows no signs, shes just very small lol."
 
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