Sweetwater Thunder & Fire

[Thunder's Mom]

I am just wondering how you find out info on sires and dams? Would like to know more info on my boy as he is starting to change color. I know he is out of Sweetwater Fire & Thunder and Quiet Dells Summertime Mistique. I am new to mini's and no nothing about the different pedigrees.

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

I couldn't find a Sweetwater Thunder and Fire in the AMHA studbook. I did find a Sweetwaters Thunder and Fire, Stallion, listed as solid black, foaled in 1994. I did find the mare you listed and she has her color listed as black pinto.

What do you mean when you say "changing color?" Is he roaning, turning grey? How old is he?

Since you are new to minis, you may find it intersting to know that many "Sweetwater" horses are registered with dams and sires that aren't accurate. The farm was known in the industry to put whatever name on the papers they felt either benefited the sale of the horse or because the horse "looked like" it came from so and so. They ran multiple stallions in the same pastures with many mares. Unfortunate, but true. And I'm sure they are not the only breeders that had this practice.

 

[Thunder's Mom]

Thank you for the information. Thunder is now 4 and was bought at an auction in PA as a yearling. When we first got him he was black and white, now as you can see from the photo his face and left neck/shoulder area are changing. Also his lips have gone from solid black to pink starting to come through. I was just curious to see what he may end up looking like.

Here is a photo from winter last year and the others are from 2009. The last one is from June of this year.

 

[Mona]

He is a blue roan pinto. If you just bought him in the winter, he would have looked black pinto, as roans tend to be "seasonal" in appearance.

Edited to add: It could also possibly be from Sabino if the roaning is one sided only?? Not sure why he would be getting mottled skin now though, other than having appy lines?? Appy can take many years sometimes to show sign.

Another edit...upon further, closer up inspection of the photos you added, he looks to have been showing the roaning and/or appy sign in all pics. He does also appear to have the appy eye (sclera) showing in a couple of the pics. My guess is he's a blue roan pintaloosa.

 

[Jill]

Mona, I'm not an expert on pinto things, but to my eyes, the coloring does look like what I see on our horses that are sabino roan.

Over the years, I've been told the Sweetwater pedigrees are to be taken with a grain of salt, so that's something to consider along with the usual misidentification when it comes to the colors reported in his background.

I think his color is beautiful, btw

 

[Thunder's Mom]

Thank you both again. We have had him since 2009 and he is slowly changing. It is kind of fun to see what color he is each year. At this time it is only 1 side that is really roaning out and his face is starting to have more white in it. I guess it will be fun st see what he ends up being.
I am used to dealing with Standardbreds so we are pretty basic on colors

 

[Jill]

Do you see as many white hairs on his head as on the colored parts of his body? If so, then I for sure say "sabino roan"

 

[Thunder's Mom]

Yes they are starting to come through more. You can see when my son showed him in 2009 his face was black and the first head shot is from June of this year. It is getting lighter.

 

[Jill]

That's what I thought. With a "true roan", their heads stay dark, but their bodies get white hairs. With "sabino roan", the white hairs are all over, head and body

 

[Thunder's Mom]

I know nothing about "colored" horse so thank you for all of the info. Is there any way to know how roan he may end up?

 

[Mona]

The white hairs on his body may also be from Appy, not just sabino. Without the mottled skin, I would say sabino without a dount, but the eyes and the heavy mottling along with the gradual roaning make me strongly suspect appy. Can you get a photo of his bum while holding his tail up or to the side to show if he has the mottling there as well?? Also look INSIDE his ears...sometimes you can see spots through the hair.

Jill is right though...those Sweetwater horse pedigrees cannot always be trusted, so even looking at pedigree is not necessarily reliable.

 

[Genie]

I hadn't heard that regarding Sweetwater/s.

"those Sweetwater horse pedigrees cannot always be trusted, so even looking at pedigree is not necessarily reliable"

 

[allaboutminis]

Yes those sweetwater horses can't be trusted for sure. But chuck and Mary did have some nice ones.

 

[Thunder's Mom]

This has been very helpful thank you! I was sitting here at work thinking that he was only really changing on his neck and thought to look check the photos, opps you see them everyday and forget what they look like

This link is from a show in May, you can see the white on his flanks. http://unbridled.smu...p47dJ#!p=2&n=10

Under his tail is completely white I do know that!! I am thinking there may be App in there, but he has such a think mane and tail! Every App I have ever see has hardly anything.

 

[Mona]

WOW...yopu said only on his left side, and I could see the roaning in his left flank, even in the current show photo that you provided in the original post, but these ones really clinch the deal for my thoughts on him being appy! (pintaloosa) His right side in those new and current photos, show it even better on his right side, as well as along the rump, which I believe is the appy gene at work!!

 

[mshasta88]

I had an appy stallion once that started with no markings except his appy mottling, then he completely roaned out by the time he was 4. I have also had roan horses were there roaning changes in intensity with the change of seasons.



I don’t see any appy mottling on your colt so he looks like a blue roan to me J

 

[Mona]

I don’t see any appy mottling on your colt so he looks like a blue roan to me J

He most certainly DOES have mottling! Click on his newest photo (where the lady is howing him) on the first post in this thread and a larger version will open. You can see all kinds of mottling, and also if you click the link provided a couple of posts back, you'll see the heavy facial mottling in those as well.

 

[rubyviewminis]

Goody, this gives me the perfect opportunity to brag. Masq is a bay sabino and splash, but you can see the roaning is uniform throughout his coat. Even tho he has the full apron. I also noticed as summer has worn on that his mane, forelock and tail are getting a little roaning of white hairs in them too which I didn't know sabino roaning would cause. His white patches are more defined now that he is completely slicked out (I need more pics but it is still over 100 evey day).

 

[Mona]

Yes, your boy is roan from sabino, and he will look much darker while in his winter coat.

 

[rubyviewminis]

My boy is a deep, deep red in winter. Your Sweetie is a good looking boy. Sabino Pintaloosa?