Taking offense?

[Margaret]

Peggy, I would just say my husband wants to see refrences..

 

[minie812]

Peggy, I do ask a lot of questions and I give alot of info to people that are interested. Most folks call back several times to talk with me. Sometimes if their looking for a pet and don't have alot of cash but have a good home I have several rescues I will try to hook them up. I ususally get calls in the spring from folks looking to either buy or place a mini or pony. I tell them to come on out and that way they can see what they look like. I have had several repeat buyers. If someone has big horses I let them knowhow much easier it is care wise for a mini. Alot of times they are looking to downsize because of health issues and if I do not have anything available I try to hook them up with friends. You can never have to much info and I always give them LB site cuse there are so many helpful folks here to answer questions.

 

[maestoso]

My own opinion of this may be rather harsh. I really feel that if someone is getting offended that you are asking for references, they are probably trying to hide something. If I was asking for references and someone pitched a fit, I would likely change my mind about selling them a horse. In fact, if someone is genuine and gives me a thorough list of references, I am more likely not to check them, I would assume if they were so willing than these people would have nice things to say.

If I am interested in a horse, and someone asked for references, I like that, because it tells me they care about their horse, it makes me feel like I'm a lot less likely to get screwed. Sheisty people usually don't care what happens to their horses . . .

 

[krissy3]

I would give it anyway as a buyer...but you know come to think of it I didnt for the horse I just purchased, because I had this man give a refrence to another person that i thought I was going to buy from , and didnt want to ask him to write another refrence. But I think its just fine to ask, and to ask for photos of their place, maybe ask their farrier how they are with their horses.

 

[~Lisa~]

I have thought about this thread alot and I hate to sound negative but I keep going back to anyone can be anything they want to be on the Internet- we have seen examples of that right here in our own LB family and I am not sure how you go about changing that. I have seen web sites of beautiful farms only to find out in person .. that must have taken those pictures elsewhere cause there own farm looks nothing like that

I have checked work references for employees only to find out sometimes way after the fact (usually by the employee)it was really one of their friends answering the phone pretending to be an employer- they didnt have work experience and didnt want to lose the job

I am not sure what the answer is and I do appreciate those that try to ensure a good home for their horses - I guess the best hope is that you know someone either in person or thru the LB forum or whatever that might be able to check for you. Sometimes calling other breedings in the same club or something might help?

 

[Thinking small]

This was an interesting read. Is this reference concept being based on show homes, breeding homes? or simply a pet home or any and all purchases. I do understand a sellers concern on where is this horse is going to be kept and the type of life it will lead, however i'm trying to figure out how in our own case a list of references would have even been possible, since their has been way to many years elapse since professional horse services have been used.

However, this was not something we were asked, i don't think the idea would have offended us per-sae but it would have been a difficult request to accommodate.

 

[SweetOpal]

This is a tough situation. I was GIVING a horse away but wanted to make sure it had a good home, so I did get references from well respected people in the industry. Low and behold next time I saw that horse it was starved. I approached those same people who had given the wonderful loving references and not much they could say at that point. I tried to purchase the horse back and new owner refused and the references stood behind the owner 100%, regardless what the horse looked like.

So the moral to the story is that if they like the person they will tell you whatever they think you want to hear.

 

[minie812]

I have thought about this thread alot and I hate to sound negative but I keep going back to anyone can be anything they want to be on the Internet- we have seen examples of that right here in our own LB family and I am not sure how you go about changing that. I have seen web sites of beautiful farms only to find out in person .. that must have taken those pictures elsewhere cause there own farm looks nothing like that

I have checked work references for employees only to find out sometimes way after the fact (usually by the employee)it was really one of their friends answering the phone pretending to be an employer- they didnt have work experience and didnt want to lose the job

I am not sure what the answer is and I do appreciate those that try to ensure a good home for their horses - I guess the best hope is that you know someone either in person or thru the LB forum or whatever that might be able to check for you. Sometimes calling other breedings in the same club or something might help?

I agree with you on someone can be anything they want to be on the internet. I love it when folks want to come to my place and see them. I realize it is not always possible to do that but I love to take pics and as soon as I figure out the video end of things I will be doing that also. I think people that have purchased from me in the past speaks volumes about being honest and not just someone out to make a buck or just a horse trader or someone that breeds just to get a foal on the ground and sell it. If I ask to many questions and do not get a response back then I figure it wasn't meant to be...no biggy!

 

[Aristocratic Minis]

When we first started getting into minis, we visited many farms, far and near, looking for our horses.

Some were top, big farms and some were small farms.

We were never asked for any kind of reference whether it was vet, our facilities, or financial etc.

What we and they did was talk, and talk, and talk about horses. We asked questions. They asked questions. We asked to be educated. They tried to educate us about different things. From these talks we had in person and on the phone and on the internet, we learned about them and they learned about us. We learned about the breed from them.

Through these talks, we were able to get our wonderful minis and we have met wonderful friends all over the country. It has been a fantastic experience.

I'd like to thank all of you from whom we have bought horses. Thank you for educating us about the horses. Thanks for answering our calls when we have questions or concerns. Thank you for your encourangement and support. Thank you for your honesty. Thanks for the wonderful horses. Thank you for your trust. Most of all, thank you for your friendship.

In reference to the OP's post, now I am wondering if we would have been offended in some manner if we were asked to provide references? We had nothing to hide, but I'm thinking we might have been a bit taken aback by requests for references. The way it did unfold for us was a very positive experience.

 

[albahurst]

Thank you all so much- I think your input has been very, very helpful.

In this particular situation, it is going to work out for us to meet- so this is good.

I hope this discussion has been beneficial to all of you, too.

Peggy

 

[Minimor]

I don't think that a refusal to give references necessarily indicates that there is a problem with the home or the care the animal would receive there. For myself, I'd have no problem getting vet references or any other references (other than farrier, since I am my own farrier)--but I kow that my vet is extremely busy--she set up her own practice not that long ago & is still busy at maintaining that and paying down her mortgage, so she is perhaps working a bit harder than some vets that are in a multi-vet clinic that they don't actually have their own money invested in--I just wouldn't really feel like asking her to take the time to talk to someone or to write a letter to someone to tell them what great care I give my horses. With Canada's privacy laws I don't think she would be able to give out any info at all without my authorization--so if someone were to call out of the blue & ask her about me she would say I'm sorry, I'm not authorized to answer your questions.

There are so many horses available where the seller doesn't require references, I'm just not inclined to go to the extra bother (for my vet if not for myself) of supplying references. I suppose it would depend on how badly I wanted the horse, but most times I would just be likely to say never mind, I have a different horse to buy instead.

I don't place a high stock on references--others have already given examples that sum it up as to why not. I just recently rescued a horse from someone that, had anyone checked him out as a potential buyer, would have probably passed with flying colors for most people. The only ones that would have turned him down are those that refuse to sell to a single horse home. This guy has a nice acreage, well kept buildings and property, a new shed, a nice pasture, cute kids to love the horse, he would have said all the right things, just because he's very good at saying the right things even when he doesn't mean a word of them...and then once the horse is there it's all down hill from there. I'm sure the guy could have even come up with references if asked, and for a vet reference, well, he would have been able to convince anyone that he had a vet lined up. References and farm checks aren't always worth much when it comes to guaranteeing the safety of a horse you're selling.

 

[wingnut]

I completely understand the idea behind wanting a reference when selling a horse you love to someone you don't know. At the same time, I would be horseless if I had been asked for such a reference by any of the breeders we purchased from. We had never owned horses before we bought our Izzy last April. We would have been unable to provide such a reference.

If a reference CAN be provided...then that's great. If not, I'd think about other ways to try to ensure a good home for your "baby". Not 100% what that would be, but hopefully there's a way.

 

[Lil' Horse Lover]

Peggy- when you asked for me to provide references before I got Ruckus I wasn't offended in the least, I thought it was responsible of you and I respected you for doing what you could to ensure he went to a good home (as we obviously couldn't meet in person and you couldn't have come and checked out my place).

Responding to someone being offended when you ask for references:

I've done some re-homing for a couple of my parents full sized horses they could no longer keep as well as for the mini breeder I train for and I've always asked for references and I also ask them who their vet/farrier is and I ask for phone numbers. If they are new to horses and don't have references I'll still ask who's the vet/farrier they'll be using and ask for phone numbers. If I can't actually go to the place I ask for pictures of the fencing/barn/shelter/other horses/etc. I also ask them lots of questions about their experience, what plans they have for the horse, and really get to know them. I'll tell them I just want to be sure the horse goes to the best home possible, it's not that I don't trust them it's just what I always ask for with anybody. If they take offense to it and it means they won't buy I just figure that obviously wasn't the perfect home for that horse. I would think they'd see asking for references means that I love the horse and want to try to be sure that the horse gets a good home. If they take offense to it I just don't see that being right and don't mind passing up that buyer.

I've always gone with my "gut" feeling as well and if something doesn't feel right I move on. I heard this quote coming from a horse movie where the horse was the narrator and it said, "We don't get to choose the people in our lives, for us it's all chance". Really sad but true, so whether or not the way I go about selling my horses (or any horse) offends someone, I'll do everything and anything I can to ensure they go to a good home.

-Anna

p.s Ruckus is still doing great. I'll try and get some updated pictures you ya here pretty soon. He's a furry filthy mess right now, there's mud everywhere!

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Sometimes I go with my inner feelings. Intuition is powerful at times. If I get a bad feeling just conversing with a potential client then I just very kindly and professionally dismiss the inquiry.

Absolutely!!

There have been so many people I've met that "everyone" approves of and says is such a great trainer, etc., and I've been horrified when I see their horses. Yes, they're beautiful and well-fed. But when every single horse in the barn looks sullen and turns its butt to you when you walk by its stall something is wrong.

I've met many backyard horse owners with pretty shabby facilities who I'd trust more with a horse because when they step out that back door the horses are all excited and can't wait to get out there and work with their owner. I would not sell to someone I couldn't meet, plain and simple, and I'm going to let the potential sale horse tell me what they think of that person. I know that isn't a freedom professional breeders have but that is one of many reasons why I've never been interested in breeding.

I have seen web sites of beautiful farms only to find out in person .. that must have taken those pictures elsewhere cause there own farm looks nothing like that

So true, and that possibility would scare me. I think I'd want photos or, better yet, video with the person and their horses in it but even that doesn't guarantee you much and I understand that's a lot to ask of a potential owner.

I think my basic answer is no, I wouldn't be offended by someone asking for references. And at the same time the reference I trust most about a person is the horses themselves. People lie- horses don't.

Leia