Team driving horses are unevenly pulling

[Specialk]

I have a team which I drive with a pole and double tree. Both horses have the same gait and speed, however one of the horses must take longer strides. The longer stride horse ends up pulling all the weight to the point that the other horse's tree starts banging on the pole because the traces are slack.

If I cue the horse that is behind he speeds up and then the other horse speeds up to match. Pretty soon we are just going faster and faster and the one horse is still the only one pulling. This unevenness is pulling the their harnesses to the outside.

Anyone know how to fix this?

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

I am far from an expert on pairs but it seems to me you are experiencing something pretty normal for driving more than one at a time. You need to use your whip and your voice to cue the slowpoke to pick it up and then correct the other if he/she starts to hurry without being asked. It is the slow horse who needs to be encouraged to 'walk up' with their mate rather than asking the other to slowdown and wait for the laggard and the cue should be individualized to that horse and not something that will cue the faster horse as well. I hope that helps a little but it would be best if you could talk to someone who drives pairs or more regularly.Hopefully one of the people on here who do will chime in with some more knowledgeable advice.

 

[paintponylvr]

I find that it works to work with both horses. YES, my mares often sped up too, (soooo frustrating!), but we kept working on it. When I really got frustrated, I used a "buck back strap" (draft horse lingo). It is a line that connects to the over pulling horse's head, attaching him where there's slack when they are pulling evenly. When that "faster horse" gets out in front and starts doing all the pulling, then it pulls tight - correcting the horse w/o you saying anything or touching his mouth or gigging his partner to "step up". He punishes himself. You can connect it to this halter (under or over the bridle) or to the bit. You can put it on the outside or you can put it on the inside.

I used an extra set of smooth round reins and connected that to the bit(both sides). I attached a large headed snap lead rope to the reins so it would slide back and forth as necessary. Then, I either tied the lead rope to the tongue of the vehicle, to the front of the vehicle or to the drag directly. I do have some pics I'm posting - but it can be hard to see what I'm talking about.

In these pictures, Bell is the shetland mare driving on the left and Bit is the mare on the right. Bit is/was the "chargey/over strong" pulling horse at this time. Later it would be Bell...

This one shows Bit charging ahead and head up due to line pressure to slow her down. This is the 3rd time these girls driven together as a pair and my first time alone at home "driving" them.

Lots of turns w/ the "chargey" horse on the outside - having further to travel.

Here Bit is on the inside and I'm again using the lines to slow her down, you see her frustrated response (all that sweat is more from her fretting than from the heat - tho no lie it was pretty miserable that summer and that day). Bell's movement is more relaxed and outstretched while Bit's is higher - both fore and aft and sometimes she would do a "passage" and several times while driving single she also did forward "Levades" (airs above the ground where the Lipizzaner reared, balanced and leaped forward and landed still in their balanced rearing position before coming back down to all 4 hooves). Only once did she do something like a "capriole" where she leaped into the air and then kicked out w/ her hind legs - breaking the circle bar on the shafts. She limped for a while as we finished that trail drive (we were several miles from our trailer) and she never kicked like that again. I had to send the cart up to OH to be repaired - no shops here in NC that could fix it.

Removed this pic, so could post - but you can see it here - Bell Bit uptight drag

AFter I hooked my oldest daughters riding reins (green) to the purple/white lead rope. The leadrope is tied off to the PVC pipe which is the "front" of the chainlink drag that the two single trees are hooked to. I didn't have a regular double tree yet, so this whole thing is a bit contrived to work with.

STarting to work together. Bit is still "pulling" with her mouth, though... Yes, the angle of draft is broken by my running the traces thru the breeching rings. I'd gotten tired of constantly stopping to put the girls' legs back over the traces when they stepped over them when they hung at the proper angle. Longer story.

Here they are doing a better job of working together. Bit is still pulling and is responding to the pulling back by raising her head - but it's much less than a short time ago.

Here Bit is starting to really relax. She's backed off enough that the extra bit pressure is not causing her to gap her mouth any more and you can see the LIGHT contact with the driving lines. We pulled the chain link drag for 2 hours (not including the original ground driving work).

WHile this book is about draft horse driving, I found it INVALUABLE while working with my pairs (actually this one is a reprint that has been updated - I don't have this version). If you go down to the part where it talks about "Longitudinal Alignment" it has pics of their buckback strap AND a good description of it. He also discusses "stay chains" and various forms of training (which is what you ultimately want! - as the other things are just AIDS).

Farming w/ horses

Here is also a good description - of both ways and why, traditionally, different methods were used. I love DRIVING PAIRS website - LOTS OF PICS.

Driving Pairs - Buckstraps

Here is another discussion - via a Draft horse group -

Draft Animal Power - Buck Back straps

 

[paintponylvr]

When I started driving the girls to a wheeled vehicle (the wagon to start with), Bell became the chargey one. She would go long & low - and out speed and out trot either of the two mares she was driven with (Bit, her full sister and Koalah, a larger mare but shorter strided).

So, I often hooked a single long lead rope up to her - one side of the bridle - and tied it off to the front of the wagon. I could use it as a pick up rope to encourage them to stop and stand or as a buck back strap with the loop reins hooked to either side of the bit, that worked to keep the "puller" from over pulling.

and 2 yrs later, I'd started teaming Bit with Koalah - worked great!!

And Bell and her daughter GG are now a "lean, green, "mean" driving team"... They are better matched together overall.

And here are Bell and her 2010 daughter GG pulling the wagon in October 2014.

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

Interesting Paula. I'm trying to understand how exactly you attached the lead to the horse, it looks almost like you have a line to either side of the bit? halter? then back to a single line that ties to the wagon? That seems like it would work if you have a horse who wants to rush. My brother in law has a mare gelding pair that he has this trouble with. Gelding always out ahead and mare dragging along behind. He has always blamed the mare but now I wonder, the gelding is always ready to 'go' and it might be he who has a problem not the poor little mare. I'll have to watch next time I am there when he hitches them and see if I can spot the difference.

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

Oops, just spotted your first post. Lots of interesting details there

 

[paintponylvr]

I have not driven enough of our other ponies as pairs to deal with the "chargey" problem, though I expect it's pretty common. Part of it DOES come from, imho, competitiveness and/or hierarchy between the ponies.

I also have and will continue to work with ours singly - before working as pairs and also AFTER starting them as pairs - to teach commands that aid in getting them to work together better.

By that I mean, I preface a command w/ that ponies name, say the command and ask w/ the lines or the whip for the command to be executed. EX - "Bell, step up" OR "Bell, walk-on" - both meaning for just the pony named to stride out. At first, when the command is said the pony will/does ignore it - so I tap the hip with the whip - generally I tap the outside of the hip - if I know which side that pony is going to be on. When working single, I will tap the outside of the hip based on which direction we are working - I work in a lot of circles due to MY conditioning (can't walk straight out fast enough to keep up w/ pony w/o hanging on their mouths).

TRUST ME, your whip handling WILL IMPROVE, LOL!!!! Your hands and wrists will also get stronger - just from use. It does make a difference in whip weight and quality (a good quality whip is much lighter and easier to handle - I drool over them, but can't afford $80-200+ for a single whip that stays in my barn).

Same for slowing down - "Bell, EEEeee...ZZzz" or "Bell, sllloooowwwww"... then use the lines to bring about a slower pace. The pony DOES learn what each of these terms mean AND you can see my mares respond as soon as I say a name! BUT remember - I detailed much of our learning with Bell and Bit in 2010 and 2011 and we did a LOT of ground driving. The pics don't show nearly how much we did,

Then, when I pair the ponies together, I use "pair commands" or "group" commands as well as their individual commands. Since I started out with mares and still have mostly mares I generally say "OK, GIRLs, let's go" or "Girls, walk ON" to get started (and by GIRLS, they are taking their first stride!). When mixed sets - "PONIES, Whoooaaa" ... Or "Ponies, trot ON" (means to extend their trot & if Bell is part of that team, you'll see her head drop, her hind end drop and "dig" as she puts something like a 3-6" extension on her gait. When she first started trotting out, down the road she wanted to do that type of trot all the time and that's how we ended up dragging both Bit and Koalah who don't extend that way w/o a lot of schooling/work).

Now that the ponies have had more than a full year off from any type of work, we'll have to work on "rusty" command structure as well as body & wind conditioning. While a lot of it will have stayed, it's still going to be "rusty" - responses won't be as solid or as quick (and some will be "forgotten", LOL).

Since I still consider myself an amateur when it comes to training, I'd love to hear from some of the other folks who have trained pairs and larger groups, but I expect a number of those are busy right now with Nationals. Hopefully, over the winter?

And in that 2nd link up in post #3, I've found that I DO use a lot of voice commands - but I use them with single pleasure driving as well as it makes it easier for me to do things w/ my ponies. I DON"T talk to my ponies all the time, though sometimes I do sing! I also want them to be conditioned (somewhat) to me speaking/talking w/o talking to them as I sometimes take on passengers and I will speak to those folks and don't want the ponies responding to that...(part of the reason I learned early on to use a pony's name even when driving single).

 

[BSharpRanch]

Pretty much all what Paint Pony Lover said. I had a mare that was that way with anyone I put her with. I tried different bits, teaching her seperate cues while driving her single. She was frustrated, I was frustrated. So I was trying to make a bit for her and was checking fit when I discovered that her lips at the corners were so wide that they folded over her bars and onto her tongue. No bit will ever be comfortable for her. I made a hackamore type bit for her and she was very happy with that and it helped her immensely. So maybe a longshot to check on other then teeth also. I also would try a lot of transitions from whoa, to walk to trot to walk to whoa to back. Also correction changes may help as they must listen and concentrate on you and what you may be asking next.