Tell About Your Stoic Minis

[RhineStone]

I am interested to hear your stories about your super calm minis that "you would have never guessed they would have done that".

For example, I was describing on another thread a gelding I owned and trained a number of years ago. He was about 3 yrs. old and green driving. I had started him fairly slowly, and he seemed to take it extremely well. Everything I "threw" at him he took like a champ (and subsequently I probably "skipped" steps

). I had been driving him around our indoor 2-3 times before I decided that he was ready to be driven outside. What I didn't prepare for is that the indoor was a much smoother surface than the outdoor (grass), and I think the cart rattling more made him bolt forward at a dead run and almost ran blind straight into the fence. I got him stopped and took him back inside, but he was still on edge.

What have you dealt with in regards to stoic minis, and not just driving horses?

 

[garyo]

Our mare that we have been driving for about three years and my elderly in-laws have driven in a parade with fire trucks, applause etc. bolted on me twice in one day about a month ago. We are doing a lot of compliance stuff with her as she is a little hard headed and spoiled. We are also ground driving her with absolutley no problems. The next time I drive her will be in a friend's closed in arena with solid walls though. I have to admit I will never trust her like I did before. We had driven in the show ring, through the woods, on dirt, on rock, on pavement etc.

 

[horsefeather]

Oh yeah, been there, done that! A couple of years ago my hubby was training a 37" gelding for some friends. He had used him all the previous winter dragging small logs up to the barn so we could cut it up for firewood. He had also driven him in the spring, all around outside, over everything with him hooked to the cart. Well, 1 day he decided (for reasons unbeknown by me) he had him hooked up and said he was going to drive him in the pasture. I 'reminded' him that we ALWAYS start our driving horses when we hook them up to actually get in the cart, in the round pen. He poo pood the loving hint I gave him and said to open the gate, this horse was going to be fine. Being the loving, obedident wife that I am,

I did what he asked. We have a lane leading down to the pasture so he said he'd just drive him down the lane then get in. As they started through the gate, something spooked the gelding and he took off. Well, the reins aren't very long when you are walking beside a cart and trying to stop a bolting horse. Needless to say, even tho he (hubby) took several long steps

trying to either keep up or stop the horse, the reins were soon flying free, as was the horse and cart. There we both stood, watching a horse (that wasn't ours

) racing down the lane and into the pasture. Didn't take him very long to get to the pasture either!

We watched as he raced around the pasture, then ran over to the brush hog we keep down there, watched him jump on it, watched him back off of it (whew!!) and continue to race around with the cart bumping gleefully behind him. He finally stopped and hubby went down the lane to see if any damage had been done (I didn't, I was afraid of what we'd find). He caught the geldng, inspected him, and instead of coming on back, began to drive, drive, drive him around and around the pasture. Finally he came back and the gelding was acting much, much better. Can't say the same about the cart. One of the tires was no longer round. However, everything else was fine, harness, horse and the rest of the cart. The gelding did go on to make a nice driving horse (after being driven for awhile in the round pen..lol).

Pam

 

[Marsha Cassada]

I have a similar "short reins" drama. I was driving my very experinced gelding and ponying another behind the cart. I had just sold a herd mate, and did not realize this would make my boy jumpy (NOW I know better). I got out of the cart to check something, holding the reins, and the gelding bolted. Off he went across the pasture, the ponied horse towed behind. They ran around behind the pond, across a terrace, through and over a patch of boulders and through a mesquite thicket. I came behind as fast I could but I didn't know where they would end up. There was a house between them and infinity and I was hoping he would stop by the corral there. He did stop at the corral, but took off again and finally crashed into a boulder and the cart tipped and wedged. I hurried up, expecting the worst. My gelding was wild eyed and breathing hard, but unhurt. The ponied horse was unhurt and enjoying the exciting run. The cart was not as bad as I expected. I had to cut some straps to get the cart right side up. Then I jerry rigged it back together and drove him home--slowly.

So, what did I learn? My gelding, the herd boss, needs time to adjust to a pasture mate leaving. Never assume a trained horse will stand quietly when getting out of a hitched cart--I know, that's a "given" but it's easy to get over confident. And Jerald's replaces broken wooden cart parts that match perfectly.

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Yep, ground-driving with the cart attached is very dangerous because it is easy for the horse to get loose or run you over. I'll admit I still do it, but only when I feel it would be even more dangerous to be in the cart for whatever reason or to spare my horse with the back injury until he's really warmed up.

He finally stopped and hubby went down the lane to see if any damage had been done (I didn't, I was afraid of what we'd find). He caught the geldng, inspected him, and instead of coming on back, began to drive, drive, drive him around and around the pasture. Finally he came back and the gelding was acting much, much better.

Good for your husband!

When a horse does something stupid like that putting their little butts back to work immediately does a fine job reinforcing the message that bolting does not get them out of work and was a stupid thing to do. He probably saved you both from a lot of retraining had you become frightened and let him get away with it.

I'll admit I'm one of those who will force a bolting horse to keep running long past when they're ready to stop to get my point across.

You can't always do that safely but if you can it works very well!

As for the original topic, how do you handle stoic horses, I don't think I've really had one yet but I'm very cautious about that easy acceptance minis so often show. I nearly had a heart attack when I found out Kody had gone from barely halter-broke 4 year old stallion to in the cart in less than a week (and I met him on the day of his second drive where he was trotting up and down hills, weaving around loose German Shepherds, making tight turns and going out on the road) so when I bought him I went back and redid all the steps I felt she'd missed. In the end it turned out she was right though- Kody was simply born for driving and couldn't wait to get in the cart each time. He wasn't "putting up with it without objection," he was throwing himself into it eagerly! I've never met another one like him.

He'd startle a little at each new thing I tried, freeze with his ears swiveling and listen to see if I said it was okay, think about it for a moment then accept it completely and move on. Once he got something, it stayed got.

Turbo is a very different horse and I'm taking my sweet time with him. He's every bit as smart, wants to drive and seems to accept everything I try but I can tell there's a very large difference between things he accepts and things he's really ready for. He's the type that if overfaced for too long would have a very sudden, very dramatic meltdown and take a loooooong time to trust me again. I won't risk it! For instance I've been trying blinker bridles on him recently to see what looks good with an eye towards purchasing his first show harness, and he lets me put it on just fine but the longer it's on the more uncomfortable he acts. I'm sure I could work through it and have him wearing it calmly in a few sessions but my gut says that's not the right way to handle his training. I'm going to continue with the original plan of teaching him to wear a bit and work in an open bridle then adding sheepskins to the sides of the open bridle to limit his vision a bit and build up to full blinkers. That way he never experiences any fear or stress which could cause a sudden blowup later, he simply gets to play a fun game with lots of praise and becomes a proud and confident driving horse. He'll still be in the cart just as quickly, we're just taking longer on the initial steps so the later ones go faster.

I think some of the stoic thing is the horses and some of it is the people training them not really noticing the signs of insecurity in their charges. If the horses don't actually blow up they think it's okay to move to the next step and the horse eventually accepts it all as nothing bad happens. Having seen kids go through this though and knowing how stressful it is, I'm not about to do it to my horses!

Leia

 

[RhineStone]

I have yet to have a horse that won't look at anything. Every one of my horses, even my "very calm" ones have spooked at something. For some, it's a bigger production than others. For the ones that are very stoic, I work on "pushing" them until they do "blow", no matter how subtle that is. Like Leia said, sometimes it's just a stop dead, while for others its a freak out session. I want to know how they handle stress before I need to know.

To think that your horse is absolutely "dead quiet" and won't look at anything is a fallacy. A horse is still a horse. I'm glad I learned that over the years and I didn't get too damaged in the mean time!

Thanks to the above posters for contributing! Let's hear some other stories!

 

Myrna

 

[Sandee]

I've had my mare since she was a baby. I've trained her and she's always been easy to train and done everything that I've asked of her. At age 3 after only 3 shows, I drove her in a Nationals class and she placed 7th out of 12. She's even pulled muscles in her back trying to go thru an arena that was too deep but she did it and finished second in the class. She competed this past year (age 5) in Roadster and while not fancy was placing.

My daughter has driven for 3 years now. She drove our old gelding who is pretty much push-button. She then moved to my stallion who is Western Pleasure but more work than the gelding. Now flash forward to Nationals this past fall. My daughter (not a child) wanted to drive in a "fancy" dress-up class. Even though my mare is Country Pleasure, (what with the Co. Pleasure classes being SOooo big) I dumped the Co. Pleasure classes and I entered her in a Pleasure class to let my daughter drive. Well, they made one or two laps and the mare broke into a canter and would not stop. Some judge must have decided she was a "runaway" and had the steward stop her and escort her out. What should have been a guaranteed ribbon ended up being an embarassment for my daughter.

The horse? Well, when I took the reins she decided that "play time" was over - "mom was back" and she behaved quite well.

 

[Katiean]

We have a been there done that mare. When we got her she was pregnant and a month later foaled a nice colt. That was June. fast forward the colt was sold in December. Fast forward again. I bought another mare that was in foal and she foaled a colt that next July. We took our driving mare out all the time. Buses, heavy equipment, honking cars and motor cycles popping their engines behind her never bothered her. After that colt was born I had taken that mare to my brothers where we drove all around the neighborhood all day. We then put her in a small pen there for about 2 hours. We harnessed to go home and she always stops at all stop signs was about 1/2 way home and she took off running. I was able to stop her after a short bit but I did not take her right home. I went back and forth in front of the house and finally took her in the drive. She has never done anything since.

 

[Fanch]

What is this term "Stoic"?? I've never heard it before, Im assuming it means a calm horse that can have irregular freak outs.

I sorta have a guy that fits that bill. He was the one that could have been trained to drive in a week, but since I was a newbie too, it took 6 months NOTHING phased him about the training. I've only had 3 intances when hes, freaked in a sense. The first was within his first month in the cart. The ring at that time was near some big horses, neadless to say they took off and so did he! The other time was when a donkey came running and braying across a field on the road we were driving on. I was ground driving (as stated above, not always a good idea) and was very thankful that I'm fit because I could keep up with him for his 5 second freak out. Im not sure the final one counts, as the cart flipped and he didn't run move more than a few strides before stopping.

Something I've observed in him and a few other calm minis is that they all seem to be bolters when startled. In all 3 on these instances, if only for seconds, he took off instantly. Compared to my extrovert, who will back the cart up in an attempt to see what wrong then stand and stare, determining weather he needs to run or not. I would be interested to see if all your guys calm horses react in a similar way.

 

[Eagle]

I was only reading this topic yesterday thinking not my lot, they are really settled and at peace so much so that they are a bit boring. I work all day scrubbing and cleaning, lugging heavy bales of hay and shavings and all they do is look at me and then carry on eating. So satisfying!!!!

Then tonight.......... I opened the gate to find my shetland mini charging round the field like a total looney. I thought "Oh no, someone must have got out and she is panicking" I walked up to the field and slowly counted them all and NO no one had escaped but they were all looking at her as shocked as me.

God only knows what had got into her, in 5 years I have never seen her run around. She is the "leader of the pack" and normally has far too much to do than to waste time playing.

 

[RhineStone]

What is this term "Stoic"?? I've never heard it before, Im assuming it means a calm horse that can have irregular freak outs.

Something I've observed in him and a few other calm minis is that they all seem to be bolters when startled. In all 3 on these instances, if only for seconds, he took off instantly. Compared to my extrovert, who will back the cart up in an attempt to see what wrong then stand and stare, determining weather he needs to run or not. I would be interested to see if all your guys calm horses react in a similar way.

Yes. There are some breeds that are known generally for being stoic: QHs, Haflingers, Minis, etc. Horses that tolerate a lot until what seems to be a point of illogical stress.

Every horse has a "tell", a "marker" that they will exhibit before they "explode". I find that the "English-style" horses just have a much more obvious "tell" (blow, snort, head up, etc.). This is something that makes them "undesirable" for some people, as they think that they are consistently freaky. I find it just the opposite, they just tell you what they are thinking more than the horse that seemingly tolerates stuff, and then blows for seemingly no good reason. I guess I haven't necessarily noticed a "pattern" of reaction, but I guess in hind sight, bolting is probably the case.

We have a mini that is completely "been there, done that" everywhere we take him, but totally stresses out at the sight of a needle (for innoculations)! Yes, I guess you could say that he "bolts" as he tries to "leave" even though you are holding him. We cover his eye on the side of the shot now so we can get it in him.

I do have a mare that I am working with right now, though, that I would say is pretty "quiet" when it comes to her "tell". She doesn't exhibit a lot of emotion, maybe in her ears. Her stress reaction so far is to stop dead, but I keep waiting for her to bolt. She tenses up and just feels a tiny bit edgy. I need to keep "pushing" her to make sure that stopping dead is the method that she will use and not bolt somewhere along the lines when it would be very dangerous (shows, etc.). I have another mare who I would say is pretty stoic, and she did bolt with both me and my husband. I don't know why she did with me, but it wasn't "scary" for me at all and I just brought her down and made her keep working. My husband said that she bolted with him in relation to a dog that they passed. He took her back and forth in front of the house. Staying calm is a major part of bringing down a bolting horse.

Myrna

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Every horse has a "tell", a "marker" that they will exhibit before they "explode". I find that the "English-style" horses just have a much more obvious "tell" (blow, snort, head up, etc.). This is something that makes them "undesirable" for some people, as they think that they are consistently freaky. I find it just the opposite, they just tell you what they are thinking more than the horse that seemingly tolerates stuff, and then blows for seemingly no good reason. I guess I haven't necessarily noticed a "pattern" of reaction, but I guess in hind sight, bolting is probably the case.
...Staying calm is a major part of bringing down a bolting horse.

Thank you for the explanation of exactly what you mean by "stoic;" that was informative! I was just having this conversation last night with a fellow forum member who prefers the Saddlebred style of horse with that typical snort and blow and it gave me a new outlook on that sort of behavior. My Arab was so experienced and calm that he only did that when he really was about to blow so it tends to make me nervous!

I also have to remember that I'm pretty attuned to my horses' subtle signals and may see lots of signs that less sensitive people might miss; Kody at least probably would be considered "stoic" by most but in reality he's highly sensitive to people's emotional overtones and will become extremely restive or skittish if he's around someone who is emotionally incongruent (acting one way while hiding another feeling such as anxiety or anger). I have to be very aware of my own feelings and his and de-escalate a situation before he shows overt signs or he'll blow fast. People think I'm babying my horses because they look totally calm and yet I'm taking tiny steps with them but I'm using my sense of sociosensual awareness to tell how my horse is feeling and I don't move forward when there's the least reluctance or anxiety there. If I back off before he gets upset I can then take giant steps forward later and in the end get him trained much faster than someone who pushed their horse in the early stages.

It makes sense to me that a stoic horse's standard reaction when he finally blows would be to bolt. After all, this horse puts up with everything until he just can't take it any more and what's the most practical thing he could do then? Bolt, hard and fast and with no warning! No wasted energy in snorting and being nervous, no fuss, just get the heck out of there. Done. Yep....

It's hard to stay calm when your horse has taken the bit in his teeth and run but you're absolutely right it's the best way to handle it. I grit my teeth, breath deeply and hang in there if possible until he decides he's out of the danger zone and then work the daylights out of him to show him that bolting is not an escape nor an acceptable option. Unfortunately the cart often flips before that point, which doesn't leave you much choice!

Leia

 

[RhineStone]

Kody at least probably would be considered "stoic" by most but in reality he's highly sensitive to people's emotional overtones and will become extremely restive or skittish if he's around someone who is emotionally incongruent (acting one way while hiding another feeling such as anxiety or anger). I have to be very aware of my own feelings and his and de-escalate a situation before he shows overt signs or he'll blow fast. People think I'm babying my horses because they look totally calm and yet I'm taking tiny steps with them but I'm using my sense of sociosensual awareness to tell how my horse is feeling and I don't move forward when there's the least reluctance or anxiety there.

That is the type of "horsemanship" and awareness that is needed with stoic horses (or any others for that matter). That is what concerns me about people that think their horse is just that calm. They really aren't paying attention to their horse's subtle attitudes and just assume that he is Ok. (I'm guilty of that in the past!

Learned that lesson!) That type of horsemanship comes from time with your horse(s), which is also why professional trainers can seem to have that "inate sense" about the horses they work with. They have put in the time because they are paid to do it, and can't afford to not pay attention and get hurt.

Has anyone else learned that lesson the hard way?

Myrna