The Walk

[LaVern]

Lisa's other thread got me to thinking. I guess I don't think that we really use our standard of perfection in the show ring. The judges are just hired to pick what they like and thats what they do. And then some of us just breed to what is winning in the show ring.

There is one thing that makes me feel that AMHA horses get a fairer shake when showing, and that is the walk. I feel that you can tell conformation much better when you see a horse move from the side at a walk, and AMHR judges don't get to see our horses walk at all. They just come on straight ahead -trot by and fly around the end- and then set up to what ever way they look the best. I would like the AMHR judges be able to see them at a slow walk like the AMHA judges get too.

Does anyone else feel like a walk is important.? I know new fun classes like "The Whoop EM Up Class" at nationals are a hoot, but it does seem to put more emphasis on how high the legs can go, rather that if they go it the right direction.

 

[Miniv]

Sort of like making a horse walk in a driving class?

If a judge knows what they are looking at, they can tell what's natural and what's been weighted or banded.

 

[Marsha Cassada]

I have to disagree about judges being hired to just pick what they like.

I volunteered to work at an AMHA show last summer and spent quite a bit of time talking with the 3 judges, and an apprentice judge. I believe they take their responsiblity very seriously. I asked them about color, and they all agreed that they didnt' even "see" the color of a horse when judging, so I am not convinced that pintos win just because a judge likes pintos.

There was some discussion about judging the horses against each other, or against the breed standard. The judges I spoke to generally judged the horses in a class against each other. It was rare that they all agreed on the placings; I think that shows they are not hired to just pick what they like.

Of course, they judge big horses, too, and are not strictly miniature judges.

That is not exactly on your topic of The Walk--sorry!

 

[Mominis]

Lisa's other thread got me to thinking. I guess I don't think that we really use our standard of perfection in the show ring. The judges are just hired to pick what they like and thats what they do. And then some of us just breed to what is winning in the show ring.

There is one thing that makes me feel that AMHA horses get a fairer shake when showing, and that is the walk. I feel that you can tell conformation much better when you see a horse move from the side at a walk, and AMHR judges don't get to see our horses walk at all. They just come on straight ahead -trot by and fly around the end- and then set up to what ever way they look the best. I would like the AMHR judges be able to see them at a slow walk like the AMHA judges get too.

Does anyone else feel like a walk is important.? I know new fun classes like "The Whoop EM Up Class" at nationals are a hoot, but it does seem to put more emphasis on how high the legs can go, rather that if they go it the right direction.

May I ask you to 'dumb' this down a little? I'm new to this, as you may know. But it is a topic that interests me. I saw a little of the Touch Of Class show, which I understand was an AMHA show not an AMHR show. In the halter classes, the horses appeared to walk past the judge, pick up the trot and line up head to tail in a couple of lines. Is it correct to assume, from your post, that the AMHR horses just trot in and never are required to flat walk for judging? Not even as a group? If they don't, I think that they should.

Also, would you mind defining a 'Whoop 'Em Up Class?' Sorry if I'm interrupting the discussion in any way, I just want to try and understand the topic better as I am considering doing some showing this summer. Thanks.

 

[love_casper]

Walking?!?! Why on earth would they do that?!?!

It would completely change things, and require breeding programs to quit breeding those mares that walk funny in the pasture, twist their legs, and trip over themselves. And here I thought that didn't matter, it was all about a flashy trot.

Haven't shown AMHR myself, but I did just see a video of a mare from a rather big farm, being sold for $5000 that had a nice trot but did all of the above things at the walk. Perhaps the reason it's all accepted is no judge is able to mark against it.

 

[ruffian]

I agree - the AMHR horse should be seen from the side at a walk and then pick up the trot. Good Catch!

 

[AnnaC]

This is an interesting subject. I think the walk is actually the most important pace if you are judging a horse (would love to see them walk up and down a slope too!) In the UK all minis classes are judged the same way as 'big horse' in hand classes (of course I'm not talking about AMHA or AMHR official shows, but just about mini classes at a normal show - of which there are plenty!)

Horses all enter the ring at the walk one behind the other. After several minutes (to give the judge plenty of ime to view each horse) the line is stopped, and each handler and horse takes their turn to trot around the ring to join the end of the line (plenty of time for the judge to see each horse seperately from the side. After everyone has done the 'trot round' the line moves forward again at the walk and the judge may call in to the middle the horses he 'likes' in the order he 'likes' them, from what he has seen so far, or he may just ask everyone to line up in the middle of the ring.

ach horse then give a seperate 'show'. You step out of the line when called, walk towards the judge (he is watching the front leg action at the walk), stand the horse up for the judge to do an all round general appearance judgement, then when asked, turn, walk away from the judge so he can view the hindleg action at the walk. Then turn back and trot towards the judge, just passing him and away from him to give him the chance to view the trot from both front and rear, then it is off round the ring at the trot, to really show off your horse's action.

So each horse is judged from all angles at both the walk and the trot, and I think this is a very fair way of doing things, as surely both straightness of movement and action should be as important as all round conformation. You cannot judge a horse on conformation alone?

Will be interested to read what others have to say!

Anna

 

[Minimor]

I would like the AMHR judges be able to see them at a slow walk like the AMHA judges get too.

Well, I guess I’d have to question why you’d want to show your horse at a slow walk. If I were judging the walk from a side view, I would want to see a brisk, energetic walk. Not an animated walk, just a good, free, striding-out-and-going-places sort of a walk. I can’t stand slow walks—not in a driving horse, not in a riding horse, and not in a horse I’m leading—so if the judging requirement is a slow walk, I would say to not bother judging the walk!

I wish that there was just more emphasis placed on movement in general. Sure, watch the walk from the side if it helps, but honestly, many faults can be seen with the horse coming and going. Many judges don’t even watch the horse TROT from the side. They’ll watch the horse trot away that little bit, then when the horse turns & goes down the side where the judge (IMO) should be watching the horse’s action, many judges turn away & start looking at the next horse coming in. I like judges who actually take notice of the horses’ movement, and use that as part of their judging. There’s a good many times that horses win even though they really cannot move at the trot—so I’m thinking that with those judges a good or bad walk wouldn’t really make any difference.

 

[LaVern]

I forget what it is called, but it is when they run the horse at the rail, and then someone comes behind and yells, whoop-whoop whoop. And the horse that picks his feet up the highest wins the prize.

Minimor, I should have said a easy, comfortable walk. The best saddle pony I ever had could cover more ground than much bigger horses because he was a good walker. And I wasn't tired out at the end of the day. So walking is movement, I think.

 

[supaspot]

I gree with you too , Ive always thought you can tell more about a horse from its walk than any other pace ,here in Ireland most shows follow the english format and most people seem happy with that (its not a slow walk more of a " good, free, striding-out-and-going-places sort of a walk" )

 

[Leeana]

LaVerne are you talking about the Roadster In Hand class? Its a "modern shetland thing" that is now part of Nationals and I just LOVE it although it is much more entertaining with the moderns...here is a video..



I wonder if perhaps the reasoning behind the judges standing infront of the horse at the walk is to see if the horse moves straight in the legs as to me that seems like something easier to see from the front logically??? I don't think that would be as easy to see from the trot. Now, of course you can see if the horse toes out or in while judging the horse standing but i've seen horses standing straight but if you watch them track while standing straight infront of them, you can see they toe out when they trot or walk and do not track straight. Besides, you can easily set a horses feet while posing them to fix toeing in / out on some horses and the hocks. I think it makes logical sense to stand more infront of the horse when walking to judge how it tracks. The judges are ALWAYS looking at my horses front view end / how he moves on the front end when i'm walking toward the judge and into a trot....

I think it is VERY important to see the horse move from infront, but then agian I am someone who is really picky on legs / movement..

 

[~Lisa~]

I forget what it is called, but it is when they run the horse at the rail, and then someone comes behind and yells, whoop-whoop whoop. And the horse that picks his feet up the highest wins the prize.

I think you mean roadster in hand?

 

[LaVern]

I forget what it is called, but it is when they run the horse at the rail, and then someone comes behind and yells, whoop-whoop whoop. And the horse that picks his feet up the highest wins the prize.

I think you mean roadster in hand?

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Many judges don’t even watch the horse TROT from the side. They’ll watch the horse trot away that little bit, then when the horse turns & goes down the side where the judge (IMO) should be watching the horse’s action, many judges turn away & start looking at the next horse coming in. I like judges who actually take notice of the horses’ movement, and use that as part of their judging.

Ditto. What is the point of getting your horse to do a good, free, forward trot with proper manners and all that if the judge isn't even looking? It's insulting! If I wanted the judge to ignore movement, I'd enter Model.

According to the AMHR rulebook horses are supposed to enter the arena at a walk and continue to the judge at a walk, only moving into a trot as they pass him and then continuing around and into line. I know at our local NW shows the judge is often standing pretty close to the gate so you don't get much time to make a first impression or show your walk, but you do enter at the walk regardless.

Leia

 

[LaVern]

I'm still having a little trouble with the new forum, I seem to post twice sometimes. Oh well.

Yes, that is what it is called. But I still like the Whoop Em Up Class.

Oh I am sure that it is much more enjoyable with the Moderns, everything is, right? But I wasn't talking about the Moderns, I was talking about the Miniatures.

I agree that they should watch from the front. But, also the side and maybe the back.

I always think of our daughters one show mare. She was so darn hocky, she should not ever have won what she did. But like Tara said, They'll never see it. She would wind her up at the gate, half rearing, hold her back until she hit the first judge and then let her fly. Her back hoofs would be hitting her belly from take off. Then when she set her up(by hand) she would never move those back feet. She was very seldom beaten in the show ring and in the pasture where she still is, you would say, " Yikkes", if you saw her.

 

[kaykay]

What you all are forgetting is the trot is only for the judge to know that the horse isnt lame. Miniatures are not judged on movement. I totally disagree with it but that is how its done in AMHR. I am hoping someday this will change. So if the judge doesnt watch the trot the entire time its because he/she already saw what they needed to see. Now having said that I do try to get the best trot I can out of my horse because I think on some level a judge recognizes a nice moving horse.

Most of the AMHR shows I have done you walk to the cone then go to trot. I have been told by many judges how important that walk in is. They are looking while you walk to see if the horse tracks straight and the expression on the head. When I help new people I always tell them enter the ring with both your head and your horses head up and proud like you have the best horse in the world. It all makes a difference!

 

[LaVern]

Oh, Oh, Kay Kay, Here we go again. I have to disagree, I think you can hide a lot of problems with a trot or a bunny hop (that is what I see more and more of) especially in the rear end. A walk shows lameness if any, better. The only walk the judges see is straight on.

And I also think that miniatures especially the B's are beginning to be judged on movement, but people are thinking that movement only means how high the horse picks up his feet.

 

[kaykay]

Lavern I dont think we disagree on this at all. I think they should be judged on movement like (at the risk of being flamed) the ponies are. But the fact is they are not. Take a look at the rule book and under AMHR there is NO mention at all of how a miniature should move or what impact it has on their halter score. Now go look at for example Classic shetlands where it defines movement and what percentage of the score it counts for. Im hoping someday that will be changed and movement will be part of a halter score in AMHR.

I suspect movement in miniatures was never addressed as back at the beginning it was all about small size. I know this was brought up at the judging clinic I attended and it sounded like someone is putting in to add a rule change to address miniature movement.

I also agree that the "bunny hop" is a clue that your horse has some big faults

I will say though you can pick up on a lot of leg faults by watching a horse walk straight tword you. If they have leg faults chances are they are not going to track straight. They are going to paddle etc.

 

[LaVern]

I guess we are on the same page. I usually go so biserk when I am blabbing on about my straights and in jumps someone and starts comparing them and blabbing about the shetlands, but in this case you have hit it on the head.

But, should we ever do something like use good movement as a criteria for judging, I feel that a side view at a walk is important.

 

[RhineStone]

Take a look at the rule book and under AMHR there is NO mention at all of how a miniature should move or what impact it has on their halter score. Now go look at for example Classic shetlands where it defines movement and what percentage of the score it counts for. Im hoping someday that will be changed and movement will be part of a halter score in AMHR.

So is this why so many minis seem to walk like they "have their pants full", lacking in fluidity in the hind?