Tobiano, can someone explain

[Floridachick]

Tink is registered Red Roan Tobiano. BUT I can say she has only had loud Overo foals. Supp she is LWO neg.

We don't breed her so I guess it doesn't matter.

 

[Dona]

Tink is registered Red Roan Tobiano. BUT I can say she has only had loud Overo foals. Supp she is LWO neg.

We don't breed her so I guess it doesn't matter.

If you don't breed her, it doesn't really matter what her genetic makeup is. I agree that she is most likely a Red Roan Tobiano....but she also, very obviously, carries Sabino as well.

The lacy, speckled appearance to the edges of her color is very characteristic of Sabino.

 

[Dona]

This thread has taken so many twists and turns that it has nearly tied a knot in itself.
I do like simple. Solid has NO white. Any white hair (other than double dilute which really isn't white) is the result of one or more Pinto genes (I would make an exception for Roan or Gray). Horses that express only minimal white in stockings or face white are simply that, minnimally expressed Pintos (similar to the minimal Tobiano I posted earlier). That may carry for generations until enough different genes get together to produce more visible white. Different genes (ie. Tobiano, Splash, LWO, SB1, 2, 3, etc.) may encourage or restrict white on different areas of the body. Combinations of genes may cause difficulty in determining which is present and which is not.

How much more simple can you get and still be accurate?

But there IS one other gene that can cause white markings...Appaloosa.

 

[icspots]

Not going to flame you at all....just want to correct something you said. Blue eyes come from either Splash or Frame genes. Sabino does not cause blue eyes.

I knew I wasn't going batty, I've heard this statement several times on the forum, and in the interest of "correctness", please check the following link. Sabino does indeed cause blue eyes. http://www.animalgenetics.us/Sabino1.htm

 

[chandab]

Not going to flame you at all....just want to correct something you said. Blue eyes come from either Splash or Frame genes. Sabino does not cause blue eyes.
I knew I wasn't going batty, I've heard this statement several times on the forum, and in the interest of "correctness", please check the following link. Sabino does indeed cause blue eyes. http://www.animalgenetics.us/Sabino1.htm

Ok, I've also read it over and over on the forum that you need frame or Splash to have blue eyes (with non-dilutes), and that sabino doesn't cause blue eyes. But, after reading on the Animal genetics site where it says sabino can have blues eyes, I did a google search, and just about every website said sabinos can have blue eyes (one, both or partial). From what I've read tonight, it would appear that any of the "overo" genes (frame, splash and sabino) can cause blue eyes.

I sure wish the Equine Color website was working, it was a good source of color information, but for some reason its down.

 

[Becky]

I'm of the opinion that one or some of the mutiple sabino genes can cause blue eyes. I've had multiple sabino horses here that either have a blue eye or pass them on with no other overo (splash or frame) patterns apparant. Of course, this is just my opinion. It will take genetic testing to prove or disprove my theory!

 

[Songcatcher]

Not going to flame you at all....just want to correct something you said. Blue eyes come from either Splash or Frame genes. Sabino does not cause blue eyes.
I knew I wasn't going batty, I've heard this statement several times on the forum, and in the interest of "correctness", please check the following link. Sabino does indeed cause blue eyes. http://www.animalgenetics.us/Sabino1.htm

icspots, do you even accept the fact that the Splash gene exists? Animalgenetics does not figure Splash into the equation because they have no test for it. Until they (recently) developed the tests for SB1 and Silver, they did not figure those into their equations either. I agree with the statement, "They commonly have blue eyes or partially blue and brown eyes. " IF they ALSO carry Splash or Frame. Any of these patterns are seldom found alone.

These theories have been discussed at length on the Equinecolor forum by members (some of which have advanced degrees in genetics and work in genetics testing labs) for a long time.

I seriously doubt that either of us will change the other's mind, but we both have the right to present our evidence.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

The currently accepted theory backed by breeding evidence, is that Sabino does not cause blue eyes.

Blue eyes are caused by Splash and/or Frame.

Sabino also very rarely occurs without another pattern being present, so this is where the confusion happens.

IME Sabino expresses at it's strongest on Red based males, and usually at it's "wildest" on the same when Splash is also present.

Since Splash often mimics Sabino it is this that causes people to assume that it is the Sabino causing the blue eyes.

 

[icspots]

Hate to sound "snarky" rabbitsfizz, but perhaps you need to share your expertise of the current misconceptions with those silly folks that actually DO THE DNA TESTING!

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Well, you most certainly do sound snarky!!

Why would you think that the people offering the testing are experts??

I am sure they often are, but nothing makes them automatically so, and certainly not God like, either.

There is no harm in questioning everything and the people who offer these tests are often not the same people who do all the work on discovering them.

I can inoculate my horse against tetanus but I did not discover the tetanus vaccine!!

If you do not keep an open mind in colour genetics you will be left way behind.

I can only tell you what the current thinking on the subject is, you are perfectly at liberty to ignore it and to continue thinking that Sabino causes blue eyes.

 

[icspots]

I'm the one that has been ENCOURAGING keeping an open mind, not say that this or that IS definitive. And that my dear is what gets my hackles up. The experts don't have all the answers yet as we have hardly entered the "final frontier" of horse color coat genetics. That IMO is what makes them experts, they don't have to catagorize everything right now, because they cannot say definitely without further research and testing. All we know for certain right now, is what can be tested for and everything else is speculation. Now I'm not opposed to some speculation, for example there have been informal tests done through observation to see the effect of different patterns within appaloosas, but as yet no tests, so those breeders have to rely on something so the informal observation will have to do for now. What I'm irritated about is the statement that Sabino does not cause blue eyes, maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, but until they come up with a test to prove otherwise, I'll continue to observe my blue eyed sabinos, because to insist that is MUST be coming from splash overo when there is currently no test is IMO irresponsible!