Training To Drive

[^T-bird89^]

Lori I agree with you on not using a halter for the first time actually getting in the cart and such - I wouldn't start out like that- maybe in the future but no need to worry. I understand your concern and there is no need for anyone to backup their side of things- I know where you all are coming from and can see both sides of it.

I'm so relieved....We are actually getting our round pen back- finally!!! I think i will be much more comfortable once I've got it again because I feel useless without it. lol. I use it all the time for lunging my arab and just for working him out and haven't got to use it with Austin yet. We had lent it out to some people who adopted two of our minis from the rescue who didn't have panels yet and i think they had it for about 5 months! They offered to buy it and i told mom, "No way!" lol. I think I will be much happier though once its set up again. Hopefully, it will be here this weekend and it will be ready to go next week.

Oh and once I've worked up pass the basics would it be a good idea to lunge him with a bridle and a circingle?

 

[MiLo Minis]

Lori I agree with you on not using a halter for the first time actually getting in the cart and such - I wouldn't start out like that- maybe in the future but no need to worry. I understand your concern and there is no need for anyone to backup their side of things- I know where you all are coming from and can see both sides of it.

I'm so relieved....We are actually getting our round pen back- finally!!! I think i will be much more comfortable once I've got it again because I feel useless without it. lol. I use it all the time for lunging my arab and just for working him out and haven't got to use it with Austin yet. We had lent it out to some people who adopted two of our minis from the rescue who didn't have panels yet and i think they had it for about 5 months! They offered to buy it and i told mom, "No way!" lol. I think I will be much happier though once its set up again. Hopefully, it will be here this weekend and it will be ready to go next week.

Oh and once I've worked up pass the basics would it be a good idea to lunge him with a bridle and a circingle?

Thanks for putting my mind at ease Tbird

I would as others suggested start with working him with long lines lunging on the halter in the round pen once you have taught him to give to the pressure and then work your way up to the bit. Good luck with it!

 

[Boinky]

i agree with Milo Mini's. When i was refering to working them in a halter..it was mostly for long lining and ground work. I'ts much easier on the horse if your new at it. If your FEEL comfortable driving the horse with a halter go for it.. but i'd do most of the groundwork with a halter and maybe the bridle on under it so he learns how to go without a bit first but still learn to carry the bridle.

 

[Jill]

I just wanted to come back and say something about driving (or riding) in only a halter. I know it can be done, like I know I can ride w/o a helmet. I just don't feel it's safe in all situations. I've got some very well trained horses, but in my opinion, the only 100% predictable horse is a breyer one! I've ridden my horses in the ring with only a halter but no longer feel that's a good idea. I know I could drive each of my driving horses in only a halter as well, but I still would not do it and wouldn't encourage others to do so either.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Jill I understand your concern especially when we are offering advice to someone who is new to a discipline,

In no way would I advise driving or riding without a bit as the "norm".

But the fact remains that the bit is, just like the whip, an aid only.

And I have ridden horses, in complete and utter safety without a bit or a bitless bridle- the only bridle I rode Ayisha in was a drop noseband with the reins attached to the side- no draw reins, no gadgets.

This was not a stunt- she rejected a bit completely and was unmanageable with one in her mouth.

All things do not suit all animals,

You cannot, believe me, you cannot, stop a horse with a bit any easier than you can stop a horse without a bit if the horse is not trained to commands and aids.

Groundwork is the key, good groundwork, plenty of it and being absolutely certain that the horse is ready before proceeding to the next stage.

If everything is correctly in place then there will be no problems and the presence or absence of a bit will not matter.

Exactly as any other training aid.

The bit has become accepted as a means of forcing the animal to obey- yet the bits we use on Minis are so mild that any question of "force" is laughable and, anyway, I give credit to at least the people here on this Forum, that this sort of thing is not in our vocabulary.

 

[Jill]

Jane, I think we agree on this subject to a point.

And, I think Ayisha would have loved one of Dr. Cook's bitless bridles

: I think they are pretty amazing and very humane. It was a real "moment" for me in horses the first time I rode one of my horses in a bitless bridle.

 

[Fred]

I work with ALL type breeds, and diciplines and believe me TRAINING is the key issue here. If the horse is not trained I don't care what you have for a bit it will not stop the horse. I truly believe it is far more humane to work with a halter that to start with a bridle. Granted it is not for everyone but I will tell you my kids will have the lightest hands because they will learn not to pull hard to make the horse stop. They will rely on the horses training. I have been on runaways in the past and believe me you have to go back and MAKE SURE the horse KNOWS what whoa means. I can ride without saddle or bridle also but I don't reccomend it for a beginner. Also this thread was started for asking advice and my advice is this find a good trainer that will help you at home on the ground. Linda B

 

[Boinky]

I'm not going to argue a bout a bitless..but please speak to someone that know's physics before promoting these!! they are NOT as gentle as the company wants you to believe!!

 

[Jill]

I'm not going to argue a bout a bitless..but please speak to someone that know's physics before promoting these!! they are NOT as gentle as the company wants you to believe!!

I disagree that the bitless bridle I posted is not a humane way to ride. I know how my horses act with a bit, and how they act with this bridle. I'm not someone who's an inexperienced horse person and I can tell when my horses like something and when they don't. They love this bridle.

Additionally, I've talked with Dr. Cook at length and was going to help him beta test a bitless driving bridle for minis, but the one he sent to me would not fit any of mine at the time (the bridle was too small).

I really don't post in favor, or against, a product I do not personally know.

 

[MiLo Minis]

Also this thread was started for asking advice and my advice is this find a good trainer that will help you at home on the ground. Linda B

:aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033:

 

[MiLo Minis]

I'm not going to argue a bout a bitless..but please speak to someone that know's physics before promoting these!! they are NOT as gentle as the company wants you to believe!!

I disagree that the bitless bridle I posted is not a humane way to ride. I know how my horses act with a bit, and how they act with this bridle. I'm not someone who's an inexperienced horse person and I can tell when my horses like something and when they don't. They love this bridle.

Additionally, I've talked with Dr. Cook at length and was going to help him beta test a bitless driving bridle for minis, but the one he sent to me would not fit any of mine at the time (the bridle was too small).

I really don't post in favor, or against, a product I do not personally know.

Jill, boinky is really just trying to help you here. If you take a good hard look at how those bridles work you will see what she says is true. I think your Minis are lucky it didn't fit to be perfectly honest. Think about how a garage door, which would be far too heavy for you to lift, is put on a pulley system and you can lift it easily. There are tremendous amounts of pressure created by that bridle, which works on a pulley system, and it forces your horse to submit. I don't care for hackamores and you yourself said they are inhumane but this bridle is worse. I have watched horses being ridden in them and my only thought was "I wonder how long before they lose it and blow up". I think the kinder your hands the more gentle this bridle can be but I also think that every little ounce of pressure is magnified 100 times and so it is NEVER truly gentle. Please just take a good look at it and reconsider.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I do not like "gadgets" on a horse- now I am a great one for using them to help in every day life but as I get older, I suppose I just get less tolerant of all these new fangled bits and pieces (no pun intended there!!)

I am happy to drive and ride some of my animals without a bit- but when I do this I just use a halter or, as in the case of my Arab mare, a noseband (that was just cos a halter looked a bit tacky in a ridden class) I do not use anything that takes the place of a bit.

Basically bits have been around as long as horses have been domesticated- they have been used by every culture except the desert Arabs, to control the horse and I have no problem with them continuing to do so.

In the thousands of years that horses have been domesticated, if there had been a better way, I do really think someone would have come up with it by now!!

 

[MiLo Minis]

Basically bits have been around as long as horses have been domesticated- they have been used by every culture except the desert Arabs, to control the horse and I have no problem with them continuing to do so.

In the thousands of years that horses have been domesticated, if there had been a better way, I do really think someone would have come up with it by now!!

:bgrin Yup! Rather than just reinventing the wheel or war bridle as the case may be!

 

[Reble]

Now back to the topic.

Okay, so Austin is going to be turning 3 in march and i want to train him to drive. He has been pulling a cart for awhile now with no problems- that is, me leading him around with an empty cart behind him so he will be used to it. I want to start training him for cues and such so that he will be ready to go when he is old enough to pull both the cart and a driver (maybe another year??). The problem is, i really have no idea where to start. I have trained full sized horses to ride and taught lots of cues for respectful groundwork, but i'm kind of stuck as to where to begin with Austin....Anyone have any advice?

Thanks

 

[Boinky]

lots and lots of long lining

get so you can make the horse do smooth figure 8's on the long lines, whoa, stand, back and easily turn to go the opposite direction. You should also ground drive (ie walk behind) and work with turning, stopping backing. you'll also want to desensitize the horse to noises behind it rattling carts ect. I would say if he's already pulling the cart he probably wont be as spooky of it and probably wont needs as much desensitizing..though it's still a good idea..incase something on your cart should say break..and cause a loud noise!

 

[^T-bird89^]

Now back to the topic.

Okay, so Austin is going to be turning 3 in march and i want to train him to drive. He has been pulling a cart for awhile now with no problems- that is, me leading him around with an empty cart behind him so he will be used to it. I want to start training him for cues and such so that he will be ready to go when he is old enough to pull both the cart and a driver (maybe another year??). The problem is, i really have no idea where to start. I have trained full sized horses to ride and taught lots of cues for respectful groundwork, but i'm kind of stuck as to where to begin with Austin....Anyone have any advice?

Thanks

Thank you Reble :bgrin . And I hope no one was offended because i just said that....

Okay, so start out with a lot of lunge lining then...and get so where he does everything that would be demanded of him while driving...that sounds pretty good to me. And with desensitizing him to noise- would it be a good idea to turn on a radio by his stall when i'm outside? Not the only thing i will do but will that help any? My nieghbors do this with their big horses all the time- they have a radio that is always playing country music so their horses will get used to noise. Plus the Airforce jets frequently fly around our area too.....

 

[Fred]

Another thing I do to desensitize is bang on the cart, have little pebbles hit it, smack the seat, hit the wall or fence with the whip, anything that I can possibly come up with to make noise behind them. Linda B

 

[Boinky]

I have mine drag tin cans (tie them in a clump so they bang on each other and the dragging on the ground sound as well).... i also do sleigh bells all while long lining. usually if htey are ok with those.. the minor sounds of the cart are no big deal..nor is about anything else that happens later on in life! lol

 

[^T-bird89^]

Okay, great. Thanks for the input everyone! I'll keep everyone updated on how he is doing later on!

 

[rabbitsfizz]

You can get CDs to desentisized dogs to noises so I cannot see why this would not work for a horse too- they have loads of things on including cars back firing etc- your Vet may be able to help with locating one, or Animal Shelter??