Training To Drive

[^T-bird89^]

Okay, so Austin is going to be turning 3 in march and i want to train him to drive. He has been pulling a cart for awhile now with no problems- that is, me leading him around with an empty cart behind him so he will be used to it. I want to start training him for cues and such so that he will be ready to go when he is old enough to pull both the cart and a driver (maybe another year??). The problem is, i really have no idea where to start. I have trained full sized horses to ride and taught lots of cues for respectful groundwork, but i'm kind of stuck as to where to begin with Austin....Anyone have any advice?

Thanks

 

[Joyce]

There is a great book out on Teaching your horse to drive by Doris Ganton, I think the name is.

Try to get it and a lot of your questions will be answered. I'm a new driver myself and found this book very helpful and it sounds like you are off to a good start. Good luck.

Joyce L

 

[Sterling]

I have the Doris Ganton book also...very informative. I also have a 3 set tape which is pretty good. But honestly...when I have to refer back...I always head for the book...I can take it outside with me and get my questions answered right then and there while I'm with horse and cart. Good luck with your driving ventures!

Edited to add: I should have mentioned that the 3 set tape is not a Doris Ganton tape. Not related.

 

[Jill]

Read some books and watch some videos as a start. I've watched many driving horses trained and know that if you skip steps, or do things "wrong", it's way way harder later on to try and fix things than if you were able to do it right the first time.

Personally, I would get the horse used to the bit first, lunge in part of the harness, use an open bridle (NO blinders), ground drive, have the horse drag something other than the cart, have a helper pull the cart beside in front of and behind the horse while I ground drive, work up to hooking the cart to the horse and ground drive to the side or behind the cart, work up to tying the cart down on the harness and eventually getting in. It's not something that happens in just a couple of weeks and I'm not sure that having the horse pull the cart with the halter on is the best first step. (It may work great, but isn't something I've seen done -- not to say others haven't done it that way and it worked but it's different than what I know.)

I've trained one of my own horses and made mistakes not knowing better! I've learned a lot since then and probably know 10% of what someone who is really good at driving training knows. I've had many horses professionally trained to drive and am able to appreciate the difference between a job done well and one done by guesswork.

Currently, I am slowly working with one of my geldings towards driving as there is not anyone close enough that I'm willing to send him to and I know a lot more than I did when I trained my first driving horse.

I think if you are able to get some good books, watch some videos and have a person or people who know what they're talking about, you can for sure do it yourself but it's so important to take it slow, consistent and correctly. Mini are small but it would be pretty terrifying to be in the cart with one who's running off or even rearing and bucking in my opinion.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

OK- he is actually pulling the cart OK???

He is fine just that you have (very sensibly) not put anyone in the cart yet??

Is that correct?

You have, if you will excuse the pun, put the cart before the horse a little as you should (if you have not) have done all the long reining and cue teaching long before he went in the cart- but not to worry so long as he is comfy and happy and not rushed you will be fine.

Without the cart or harness or anything, work on teaching hi a rock solid "Whoa" and "stand"

These are the tow most important commands in the driving vocabulary.

Everything else depends on them!!!!

Then, again without cart or anything, work on his left and right (I use come and get but you can use any commands you are happy with) and throw in lots of Whoas and Stands whilst you are doing it.

Also keep up with the leading him around in the cart and throw in some whoa and stands whilst you are doing it- see where you are going??

You are building up on what he is doing right now.

The most important thing about getting in the cart for the first time??

HAVE SOMEONE THERE- at LEAST one person.

Do NOT on any account in any way shape or form do it on your own.

DO NOT!!!!

And do not do it until you are totally ready to do it- because the fact is, if you are not ready, he will not be.

Sounds like you are half way there. Good Luck!!!

 

[MiLo Minis]

I am a bit confused because you say you have taught full size horses to ride but don't know where to start to teach a horse to drive? You go about it exactly the same way except you get in the cart eventually, not on his back. If you have got him properly to the point where he is comfortable in the cart I am with Rabbit, get some help and get in the cart - at 3 he is plenty old enough. But I have to say that it sounds like you skipped over a lot of his training and are merely leading him with a cart behind. Because you have already done this and he is comfortable with it you won't have as much trouble when the time actually comes to get in the cart but I think you need to back up a few steps and teach him to not lead but to drive FIRST. If you don't know how to do this I really recommend getting yourself some knowledgable help. Books and videos are great and you can help educate yourself with them but when it comes right down to it hands on experience counts for more than anything. Good luck and I hope you are driving soon! :bgrin

 

[Fred]

Actually Jill I train ALL the horses I drive to drive in a halter first. I don't put a bit in their mouth until they have been driving a while. I agree with rabbit on knowing whoa and stand inside out because thats your brakes and your foundation. I also feel if you can't drive them with a halter they are not ready. IMO.

 

[Jill]

You've for sure trained more horses than I have. The idea of driving them in a halter though reminds me of riding a horse with a halter vs. a bridle (and I use bitless bridles -- totally a different thing). It just scares me what can happen if something unexpected comes up. So, I won't be driving any of my horses in a halter (nor riding the biggies in halters).

 

[MiLo Minis]

You've for sure trained more horses than I have. The idea of driving them in a halter though reminds me of riding a horse with a halter vs. a bridle (and I use bitless bridles -- totally a different thing). It just scares me what can happen if something unexpected comes up. So, I won't be driving any of my horses in a halter (nor riding the biggies in halters).

I have to agree with Jill and I sure wouldn't recommend halter driving to a beginner - too many bad things can happen. Even a seasoned driving horse can bolt for whatever reason sometimes just sheer energy and excitement and with a halter you are just pulling against their nose and we all know horses are WAY stronger than us so unless you are quite calm and know how to handle a runaway I wouldn't advise driving with a halter only. While I don't agree with the use of a bitless bridle with its severity I do think an appropriate bit is a definite must for the beginner.

 

[Jill]

I think the bitless ones I use to ride are actually not severe to the horse like a hackamore can be. My horses seem to like them a lot more than bits but I hardly ever ride these days. Just for what it's worth, it's the Dr. Cook Bitless Bridles I use. A lot of people think "hackamore" or other types of "bitless" bridles, but the Dr. Cook ones are different than those types

 

[rabbitsfizz]

No, I have never used a bitless bridle, but I have ridden without a bridle- or a bit, and hunter trialled a mare like this just to prove a point, you understand, not as a normal thing.

My horses are fine to drive in a halter- if they are not then I don't think they are ready to drive- a bit does not give you the control, the training gives you the control.

I do not want to start a huge debate about this as it was not the question asked, but I feel you should definitely stick to what you are comfortable with- as I said in the first instance, and I am quite comfortable driving in a halter.

I would certainly recommend all the groundwork be done in a halter- cartwork is a matter of what you are confident doing, basically.

And ALWAYS have help, never, never, NEVER on your own.

PLEASE!!!!!!

:

 

[Jill]

One thing is for sure, there are a variety of opinions to be had. I sure am not saying a horse cannot be ridden or driven in a halter, however, I just feel it's unsafe. I'm not manhandling my driving horses with a bit, but if something unexpected happens, I feel the bit (or a bitless bridle) along with their training will be something I'd appreciate at the time something unexpected happens.

The real good news is that we all have our own horses to enjoy and care for the way we feel is best. I just worry about a person new to driving getting advice that I feel could lead someone into a dangerous situation (ie, driving a horse in a halter).

Just my opinion -- it's the one I know the best :bgrin

 

[Reble]

We have ridden all our Paso finos without bits, just need to know how much pressure.

Same as a bit need to know the pressure, take a chair and tilt it back with binder twine, and steady the chair, that is how much pressure you should have on your horses mouth.

Remember pulling as hard as you want on the horse with or without the bit will not stop them.

I believe when riding or driving a runaway always circle them. Pull as hard as you need to and get them to turn left or right to slow them down. ( just in case something does happen)

Yes always as rabbitsfizz has said never do anything on your own, and I agree go back to the ground work without the cart and teach stand and whoa.

Read, watch and ask questions. GOOD LUCK you are going to have fun :aktion033:

 

[Boinky]

i agree with rabbit..it's not what you have on the horse be it bit or halter..or how much you pull to make them stop but the TRAINING to get them to that point. I train both my saddle horses and driving horse using a halter first and all of my saddle horses are trained to go bridleless too. Usually i don't drive them with a halter per se..but they COULD be. they are long lined extensively with nothing but a halter and know what whoa means and what the commands are. THAT is how you stop a horse. i've been on everything from un broke horses to poorly trained and NONE of them will stop if you just pull as hard as you can..they need to LEARN what the cues are before they understand them. if you have a horse that is going to bolt.. and you think a bit is the only thing going to stop it..you need to go back to basics and retrain that horse. i would not bat an eye at driving any horse i trained in a halter.. I've rarely ever had horse bolt and even then not more than a few strides (and my horses usually are in lots of situations from heavy traffic with 18 wheelers wizzing by, parades, shows ect) .. if they are trained correctly they typically don't. green ones might more so than trained ones..but once they know the cues and commands even if they are afraid all i have to do is talk to them and it only takes a couple of seconds for them to remember what they learned.

 

[mininik]

Patty Cloke (www.clokestables.com) has a set of videos out about starting Miniature driving horses. If you cannot afford to hire a trainer (Austin Van Wyke III, Arthur Ramirez, Larry Strubhar, etc. are in AZ), I recommend investing in Patty's videos and ask that you please watch them BEFORE you go any further.

 

[Triggy&Blue&Daisy Too]

After I feel my horses are proficient with basic ground handling, I start ground driving all my horses big or small in a halter. Then I move on to using a snaffle on the ground as well. They learn the priciples of standing stock still, whoa, turning, horizontal and vertical flexion before I ever get on their backs or in the case of Triggy and Blue the only horses I have cart trained, before getting into the cart. I don't like them to learn it after the fact and so when it comes time for the big stuff the first ride or pulling a cart it's a non event. They already know what to do and have only to become accustomed to weight on their backs or pulling the cart with a driver and soon learn how to balance themselves with it all with further conditioning.

 

[Fred]

Do what you feel comfortable with, but if the horse is being trained properly using a halter is just as good as using a bridle. I always trained my saddle horses this way and went to using it on the minis and it works for me. The thing is if a horse or mini is going to bolt I don't care what you have in its mouth you are not going to stop it by pulling. Teaching whoa properly is the key. Get some good driving videos by Patty Cloke.

 

[Fanch]

When I taught my mini to drive, I started with a halter. For each step, I would use a halter. I remember someone saying to start in a halter so they can look around, I just took her word for it. After the horse and I felt confortable in that step, I would repeat it. But in the bridle. I did it for everything, including his first time in the cart.

 

[^T-bird89^]

Okay, I just wanted to say thanks for the advice and please keep it coming. I would have loved to have Austin professionally trained, but as I am a 17 year old who is a full time student (and waiting to hear back for an interview), unfortunately I can't afford it right now. However, once I have a job besides babysitting, I would really like to take him to a trainer- so thank you for the names mininik. For the time being though, I would like to start with the basics so i appreciate the suggestions. I had Austin pulling the cart empty while i led him just to see how he would do- though i didn't really have many worries about that since he is so calm (he travels to reitrement homes and such to visit and goes indoors). However, I know they can react to things very differently though so i was slow and careful. Thanks for letting me know I was getting ahead of myself though- i wouldn't want to confuse him or mess him up. :no:

The reason i asked for help with him, even though i've trained 3 horses to ride, is because somehow to me it feels different. I really don't know why, but for some reason it seems more difficult than training the full-sized ones. It's wierd but thats how i feel. I think i'm more comfortable around big horses because i've been around them much longer, and i know what they can handle. Plus teaching to drive feels like its more complicated than riding because you aren't actually on them i guess....I don't know maybe its just me

: Anyhow, thanks again! and don't worry- i know better than to try anything new alone

:

 

[MiLo Minis]

You are misunderstanding what I was saying about training in a halter. I can guarantee that each and every one of the horses I have trained to drive could be driven with or without a bridle BUT an inexperienced person trying to train their horse I would not advise to do it using a halter. If the horse bolts and they don't know how to deal with it and they are not reacting calmly due to their own inexperience there will be trouble. I realize that you are not going to stop a horse that doesn't want to stop by pulling on either its nose or the bit but you stand a much better chance if you are panicking, which a lot of beginners are prone to do, with a bit. I sincerely believe in a good WHOA and have posted that on many replies and anyone who knows my horses knows they know whoa

: It doesn't matter how well trained or experienced a horse is though if they decide to bolt for whatever reason they are going to bolt. An experienced calm driver will bring them quickly back but a beginner? I don't think so - I have seen it too many times. They react by screaming and pulling on both reins and the horse goes faster. Its all well and good to say what you do going by your own experience but you have to be careful what you suggest a beginner should do.

Jill those bitless bridles work on pressure points at the poll and above the eye and a pulley system which can create tremendous amounts of pressure similiar to draw reins which I also abhore - far more than any snaffle bit. I have seen them in person. In the right, trained hands they can be a sensitive instrument but I don't think they are a good choice for a beginner either. I have seen them touted as being more humane than bits and they can be but the vast majority of people I have seen using them are inexperienced beginner horsepeople that think they are being more kind to their horse by not putting a bit in their mouth and they don't realize just how cruel they actually are. Same goes with hackamores. That is just my opinion.