Training - where to begin?

[paintponylvr]

Thank you Paintponylvr for all of your info and photos. I love to look at everyone's photos. I enjoy the photos of the horses, but I also enjoy looking around in the backgrounds to see what everyone else is doing to keep their horse areas organized. I especially love seeing the photos of the little one's riding the horses. There is something so beautiful about that.

You are welcome. I have lots more of those! Here's one of my fav's!!!

I LOVE YOUR STALL! You might want to look at lining the inside of it though - so that when she rubs against it (winter hair is itchy when it warms up - sometimes in the middle of the winter), paws at it or for some reason kicks. Many things you can line it with - up to at least 4' in height (4x8 sheets of wood - different thickness's for different applications - work well). You probably already have it in the works and it's a 'moot' point,

The wall in the pic (at the black and white colts' tail) above goes up 8'. The "holes" under the wall have been refilled since this pic was taken.

ARGGGHHH, there was something else I was going to ask/say - and it totally escapes me now.

Your new mare is a cutie and sounds like you've gotten started right. I hope you enjoy your new endeavor as much as a lot of us do!

 

[wingnut]

And if I tell the horse "over" exactly what am I expecting her to do? Step over something or move over or what? Sorry, I am sure that is a very stupid question, but I have no idea.

Not stupid at all! I had no clue 5 years ago! For me, I use "over" to get them to move their hindquarters out of my way. It's also used for teaching side passing (stepping horizontally to one side or the other with both front and back legs at the same time).

I'm thinking along the line of working on those commands that you'll use all the time...in and around the barn, in formal training sessions, in a show ring. Those basics are your building blocks.

 

[wingnut]

She is lovely!!!! Congrats!!!

 

[AngC]

I kind of stayed out of this one, because I thought there were lots more people here that know more than I do. But, I have a couple thoughts to add...

Regarding stall "lining:" when Nicky had his eye injury he wasn't accustomed to being locked in the stall. Whenever anyone came in/left the barn, he'd rear up with his hooves between the stall bars at the top of the stall door. I was really freaked with that behavior and was picturing a broken foreleg. The vet suggested a protective measure of putting stall mats on the stall walls. ...which we did. Now all three of ours have "rubber" rooms.

Regarding commands: I don't use the kissy/clucking noise. This is just my thinking, but what if I take one of ours around other people and then somebody makes a kiss/cluck sound; I wouldn't want my horse to take off because they heard a sound. (Pretty much the same idea with clicker training.)

This may sound silly, but in the military, a command is preceded by an alert. For example: if you're standing around in the military, and you hear Forward (alert) March (command) you start marching forward. I've used this idea with our horsies. I would have taught them all military commands, but that's probably not a good idea, since what if somebody else ever had to give them commands? Instead I've tried to standardize what I say (in preferably one-word commands.) For example: Nicky (alert) Walk (command), or Nicky (alert) Trot (command), etc. ...don't know if that makes sense.

I don't use whips. I have a nice one made by Stacey somebody-or-another that cost like 50 bucks. It's somewhere collecting dust. I can see the concept that one could use a whip as a guide tool. But it's too long to flick backwards from your right hand while leading to tap a (mini) horse butt. And it's never around when I need it. I've watched how ours discipline each other; Coco will snap at Baby in a really scary manner, but she never hurts Baby or breaks skin. And Baby doesn't seem the least bothered. So if they do something heinous to me, I'll smack 'em hard with my hand (but never anywhere near their head) accompanied by a negative or "stop" noise.

One last thought, if you start something, don't quit. That teaches them they can get away with it. But on the other hand don't start something too ambitious; try to figure out if you think you can complete the action you started. I learned this when I read some stuff on-line about haltering Coco. I literally spent 5-plus hours out there gimping around trying to halter her. She won.

 

[QuiltinMom]

I kind of stayed out of this one, because I thought there were lots more people here that know more than I do. But, I have a couple thoughts to add...

Regarding commands: I don't use the kissy/clucking noise. This is just my thinking, but what if I take one of ours around other people and then somebody makes a kiss/cluck sound; I wouldn't want my horse to take off because they heard a sound. (Pretty much the same idea with clicker training.)
This may sound silly, but in the military, a command is preceded by an alert. For example: if you're standing around in the military, and you hear Forward (alert) March (command) you start marching forward. I've used this idea with our horsies. I would have taught them all military commands, but that's probably not a good idea, since what if somebody else ever had to give them commands? Instead I've tried to standardize what I say (in preferably one-word commands.) For example: Nicky (alert) Walk (command), or Nicky (alert) Trot (command), etc. ...don't know if that makes sense.

One last thought, if you start something, don't quit. That teaches them they can get away with it. But on the other hand don't start something too ambitious; try to figure out if you think you can complete the action you started. I learned this when I read some stuff on-line about haltering Coco. I literally spent 5-plus hours out there gimping around trying to halter her. She won.

I am open to suggestions and help from anyone. You don't have to have a lot of experience to have more experience then us!!

I think some of the more experienced people or people that have grown up around horses take for granted the amount of information they have. Things just come naturally where as those of us that are new to horses are probably over thinking stuff.

I totally understand what you are saying about the kisses/clucking sounds. It makes sense to me. Today when we were taking our mare out for a walk my 10 year old son was walking her and my 6 year old daughter was following close and calling out "Whoa". I think the horse was confused. I quickly put a stop to it, but I wonder how the horse knows which voice it is supposed to listen to.

I like the idea of calling out the name before giving the command. Seems like that is how they tell you to train dogs. I actually have been calling her name and then telling her to walk or whatever, but I didn't know if it worked with horses or not.

I have been trying to be very consistent and very obvious with what I want. Like I am trying to get her to lift her head up (instead of eating) when I am ready to put her halter back on so I have been saying "head up" with a gentle touch of my hand under her neck. I also make her stand completely still when I put the halter on. No head shaking, etc. I just hope my expectations aren't too high.

I have used the "quit" command when she is doing something she shouldn't and I have also implemented the no grazing while on the lead line. I think she had learned both of those really quickly. We seem to be communicating and understanding each other pretty quickly. This morning when I was headed to the barn to feed her and then turn her out to the pen I talked to her and told her to say "good morning" and she whinnied at me. Now, I don't think she really understood me, but it was sure fun to hear her talk to me.

She may have a playmate as early as this weekend. We are going to look at a stallion that is supposed to be really calm. We already have an appointment scheduled for him on Monday to be gelded if we do bring him home. He has been shown and is trained to drive. I am hoping that he will be able to teach us a lot. I think he is 9 years old.

 

[Ryan Johnson]

Sounds like you are having fun with her

The person that commands the horse is the person leading the horse or in general riding it . The horse must learn who is the boss and takes the instructions from .

I think your doing great but maybe for the next week you insist on leading the horse ( hard to do with how keen the kids are) and work on these commands , this will give your mare a chance to learn the command as well as the kids . Then once you are feeling she is listening and obeying your calls the kids have a go to see if she listens to them . You are right in thinking she may have been confused with commands coming from different directions . But u did great in putting a stop to it. Just my opinion

 

[chandab]

You'll need a quarantine period anyway when bringing home a new horse (like 3 weeks), so if you do get the stallion and bring him, by the time he's recovered from gelding and his quarantine time is over, he should be ready to be introduced to the mini you already have. [Quarantine period is to insure a new horse doesn't bring something onto your place and give it to another horse; such as respiratory infection (or any number of other illnesses). Some horses appear healthy, but could be harboring a bug and the stress of a move could be enough to allow it to take hold. 3 weeks is typically enough time to see if anything comes up and get treatment started. In nearly 30 years of horse ownership, I've only had an issue once, I forgot to take precautions after a horse event, and ended up bringing strangles home, only one horse was affected, and it wasn't the one that went out and about. All horses are quarantined when they come here, especially those with questionable health history.]

 

[AngC]

Sounds like you're feeling comfortable, QuiltinMom. Good for you.

I think it was you that mentioned books. I found one when I was starting out written by a lady out of Idaho-Cherry Hill-called something to the effect of 101 Ground Training Exercises. It helped me a lot. But what helped me more was just sitting out there with our goobers. I don't know how many times Baby dumped my coffee on me while I was sitting there with them. I'm probably a "bad" horse person in many eyes, because I don't put them on the halter enough. My reasoning is that if they can do it without a halter they could also do it with the halter on (uhh, ok that's laziness). And we've somehow gotten to the point where, for example, if it's time to go in, I (or husband) says "come on, let's go" and they go. Hang out with them, figure out your position in the 'herd' as the woman-in-charge. They're creatures of habit; in some ways I don't think domination works too well unless you've spent some time with them.

One comment on stallions.... The trend I've noticed is geld, geld, geld. "They" say he'll be happier; "They" say stallions are hard to handle. That may well be for some people. So it very well may be the best for your situation; just don't get pressured. OR.... what the heck, maybe you want to make a baby; we did by accident; I wouldn't suggest it due to the inherent risks, but...

I've got an old boy whom I have absolutely zero intention of gelding. (My avatar photo.) I believe we've got him as happy as we can under the circumstances. I get a little militant when the whole gelding issue comes up. I'd bet my husband's entire paycheck for a few months that NIcky would not like being gelded.

 

[FurstPlaceMiniatures]

Here's how my mentor described stallions to me-

They are like a 15 yr old boy. Now let's imagine this scenario-

A topless Swedish super model is jumping up and down outside his bedroom widow yelling his name and for him to come out. That is how a stallion sees a mare in heat.

Now, you are this 'boys' mother. You are making him do math homework, chores, or something that is not going outside to visit the Swedish supermodel.

A polite respectful good natured boy will do the task at hand. Will he be focused? Heck to the no. He might spill a bucket, make a mistake, etc. this is why there is NO such thing as a 'child safe' stallion.

A disrespectful boy will say 'eff you mom!' And jump out the window. Are his hormones to blame? No. The lack of respect for his parents is to blame. Sure, if he didn't have hormones he wouldn't have jumped out the window at THIS scenario, but something else someday would make him do it because he does not have any respect. The problem was not that he wanted the supermodel but that he jumped out the window and cursed his mom out, correct?

Now let's imagine this boy has no hormones and is respectful (a been there done that gelding), he'd do his homework, chores, etc and be focused. That's the kind of horse you want a child or a beginner to handle.

I own a stallion. That being said I was raised with horses (mom was nationally ranked with her apps) and farm for a living, my 300 lb unfocused but polite boy does not bother me one bit as compared to the 2500lb bull that wants me dead. He is absolutely a dream to show, and because I am 'that strict mom,' even when mares in heat are around he stays pretty focused. Not once has he 'blown a class' et. Because of hormones, and is child safe while they are supervised by myself or another competent experienced adult. Turn him loose with a novice unsupervised and it would not go well. Stallions read body language like it's their job (because it is!) you can't fake you know what you're doing with a stud, where you could bluff a gelding or mare.

I am very very strict with my horses but we have a fabulous relationship. Same stallion is quite the drinking buddy, and is friendlier than your average Labrador retriever. He loves chest rubs and will hang out next to you even at liberty. Will come in away from his mares for itchies!

I agree fully with Ang, time sitting in the stall while they munch hay reading a book or sipping tea has never been wasted.

One piece of advice is to 'make' your horse do something everyday, no matter how small, but don't push it. For example, with my aforementioned stallion, if I'm having a bad day all I mark him do is back up (something he knows how to do very well). If I'm having a good day, I make him practice a complex showmanship pattern 2-3x. You could start by 'making' her stand quiet while you ran a brush over her. I'll chew over a list of more tips as the day goes on, hope this was helpful!!!

 

[Marsha Cassada]

I have to agree about stallions with children. I think stallions are awesome. But would one let her young, inexperienced child play with a 1100# stallion, when the only other horse around is a mare?? Just because miniatures are smaller doesn't mean they are not dangerous.

The first time he rears up on the child, that child could be turned off on horses for the rest of its life. And it could only take one time to scar a child's idea of horses.

Not every horse owner has the proper temperament to manage stallions. If the OP is interested in pets for her family, horse companions to teach and to learn from, then, imo, she has the right idea about gelding her newcomer.

Also, I use the idea of Alert-Command. Never thought of it in the military sense, but it was the way I was taught with my dog. If the dog/horse does not hear his name before the command then he pays no attention to it. Kind of like "simon says"!

And I like the idea of asking the horse to do something every day. Sometimes it is just backing away from the food dish. Sometimes we just do one trick.

OP, your little mare is so pretty! She sounds as though you have chosen a really winner for your family.

 

[paintponylvr]

Another book, also by Cherry Hill, that may be VERY helpful for you is "Horse Handling & Grooming" also "Horse Care for Kids" . Lots of pictures and sound advice.

two other good authors would be Linda Tellington Jones (a different training approach - but has a couple of books that cater to beginners/children using those methods successfully). She also has videos on YouTube (or did).

and John Richard Young, if you can find it - "Schooling for young riders" . I grew up reading articles by J.R. Young published in the Horseman magazine - they were different than a lot of the standard training practices of that time... You will understand when you read the book if you can find it. There are quite a few "bits" in it that cover much more than just riding.

I, too, use an "alert" and "command" type of structure. Even though many in our families have been military, and I still have acquaintances in, I hadn't considered that it was like the military commands. It just keeps a horse from being startled and reacting or not being prepared therefore not acting either.

I do use voice commands and include both a cluck (has 2 meanings - move faster at the gait you are going OR trot - they learn which one is meant by your body lanqage and by what they have been doing up to that point) and a kiss (canter). I also use body language the same as a herd mate or herd leader would. The horse learns to "listen" to the one who is in charge - and sometimes that "command" comes from the adult or more knowledgeable horse person that is off on the sidelines. Some horses, no matter what you do, will recognize commands from "others" - and will respond to them. They would also respond to someone who is "better" or "stronger" in their body language as well - regardless of what/who else is handling them. "Everyone" has heard of the stories of horses that "knew the next gait" before the rider connected what was called for by the announcer and asking the horse to perform that. You just move on... I can't begin to tell you how many ponies/horses I've stopped by voice alone when the young rider/or beginning handler is accidentally cuing (or telling) the horse to go faster and then panics and completely forgets how to stop the behavior they unknowingly asked for. In my/our case - it also works when the horse has gotten caught in a panic-ed situation and the "green" handler doesn't know how to calm them or again - "freezes".

 

[paintponylvr]

Deleted double post... ??

 

[AngC]

Good point about stallions and children; I missed the children-part in the original post.

But... I still think you should consider each horse on a case by case basis. For example, if I had to allow children around our horses, I would allow a child around our stallion before I would let them close to our mare. She spent the first 4 years of her life neglected and probably without much handling at all, and although we've made progress, she's still a spook and much more "unreliable."

Another thing I've noticed is that Nicky might get a little more excitable when the mare is in heat, but I believe he's much more dangerous when a storm's moving in. I swear they all have barometers stuffed up in there somewhere; when thunder/lightning/wind is moving in, they all get freaky. The only time Nicky's ever reared up on halter, once, was when it was coming up stormy.

I've allowed some neighborhood children to pet Baby and Nicky, under supervision, from outside the fence. I never let anyone inside the fences, because I don't want to get sued in case something happens.

Just curious, does "at liberty" mean "off-halter?"