What do you include in sale price?

[runamuk]

I would say it is going to vary depending on the situation and where you live....some states REQUIRE certain things from sellers...like I was born and raised in WA and I have purchased a few horses over the years.....only recently did I come to find out all those people who sold me horses and didn't include a halter and lead rope were BREAKING THE LAW

too funny because I always send them away with a well fitting halter and lead....

I just did a trade ...I paid for health and such I had all the registrations in order for her to sign and send (she was so funny she had no idea he had fancy schmansy papers) and I hauled the horse to her she paid 1/2 the gas.

The horse gets a great home and if all goes according to plan we get a new puppy late fall early winter

I think it really just depends on the situation I have found that often the homes my horses and other critters go to the registration stuff is "kinda fun" to have but not expected or neccessary.......to date I have sold unpapered grade horses for 2 to 3 times what I have been able to sell my registered stock for

 

[Miniv]

Annette,

Alphahorse did an excellent post. All the items she listed are things that CAN be offered but are negotiable between the buyer and seller. What it comes down to is that each sale is different. And hopefully both parties are at least satisfied when the horse is delivered.

All you can do is assess YOUR situation and try to do what is fair for BOTH of you.

MA

 

[Buckskin gal]

I too think every sale is a meeting of the minds to decide what is given and what isn't in the price. I know I will print this list off and keep it as a guidline for future sales and buys because I agree that all these things need to be covered before buying or selling. Being clear and upfront as stated is so important and I totally agree that a horse is not registered until it actually is and it is important to state wheter the registration has been or not been done so there are no surprises later.

Thanks for the list! Mary

I don't pay for coggins, health or transportation either.  I've purchased horses, big and small, off and on my whole life and it has always been expected that the Purchaser would be responsible for these things
It think the MOST important thing though is to just be really CLEAR and UPFRONT about what is included and not included.  I try to specify in any ad I run that Coggins, health papers and transportation is not included in the price.  I find it very irritating as a buyer to buy a "registered" horse only to find that it is not registered, but registration eligible.  Nothing wrong with selling a horse that way, but please be clear when you advertise that it is not AMHA/AMHR regisred... it is AMHA/AMHR ELIGIBLE.

Here are some things that I think need to be specified at least in your sales contract which the buyer is allowed to read before making a decision, if not in the ad:

1)  Who pays for Coggins & other Health Papers

2)  Who pays for transportation

3)  How long they can "board" at your place while arranging for transportation and how much board will be charged if any  (I give them 30 days free... then charge)

4) If the horse is registered or just eligible & who pays for registration

5)  If the mare is in foal, if there is a Live foal guarantee and what are the terms

6)  If the horse is a stallion or colt, is there a fertility guarantee and a guarantee that testicles will drop and what are the terms

7)  Is there a height guarantee and what are the terms

8)  Is there any type of health/soundness guarantee and the terms

9)  If the colt is sold under gelding contract, what are the terms

10)  Under what terms will you refund deposits

11)  Terms for pre-purchase exams

Once these are laid out in writing, you and the buyer can negotiate and change the contract as needed .. but they should be agreed upon before the sale is concluded so that each party knows what their financial obligations and risks will be and so neither feels like they have been cheated.

444147[/snapback]

​

 

[Michelle@wescofarms]

Annette,

We do something similar to Alpha Horse everything is negotiable and is in writing in our sales contract. It is all spelled out and negotitated until both parties are happy!

We do provide for all horses similar to MountainView - we need to implement a binder though instead of a folder! -

copies of registration when we receive the downpayment along with a receipt for the deposit.

1. Fully excuted registration/transfers at the finalization of the sale.

2. CD or print photos of horse during the time it was here (birth on, etc.)

3. Print out of all de-worming, trimming and any other anecdotal information

4. Copies of all vet treatments

5. Breeding age horses - information on foaling/breeding for that specific mare/stallion

6. Print out of AMHA/AMHR pedigree

7. DNA/PQ papers if completed

8. (first time owners) Mini info sheet including info on mini suppliers, clubs and assocations, plus a recommended list of books.

Beginning this year any horse sold with our prefix/breeding sells with the DNA/PQ completed or we complete at our expense. We also try to have all transfer paperwork completed and on the way to the registry before the horse leaves - it doesn't always work, but we're trying.

 

[Peggy]

This has been interesting and enlightening. I will most likely purchase more minis before I am done. I have just started with two. And I know exactly WHO I will not buy from. I want everything in order when I bring a horse home, I don't care what I pay for him. It is the seller's responsibility to have a current Coggins, health certificate, vaccinations utd, etc. Heck, I do that with my horses anyway.

I have had big horses for years and I have given away two. Even those FREE horses had a Coggins, were wormed and up to date on vaccinations. They were properly groomed, went away with their fly masks, and had good halters and lead ropes. I think it stinks when the seller throws on the oldest dirtiest halter in the barn. I want the horses that go away from my barn to look their best. IT is a reflection on my barn and me.

So if what I am offered for the horse is not what I want to take. I treat all of my horses with dignity, and all of my buyers.

I generally don't have an opinion about most topics on this forum, but this one hits home. I am sure some will not agree with me, but those of you who feel the way I do, will get my business.

 

[alphahorses]

Peggy,

Perhaps I'm reading you wrong, but you sounded a bit angry in your post towards people who don't normally provide what you expect. I think what everyone here HAS agreed on is that there is no set-in-stone way of selling a horse. Everyone of us who has stated that we don't supply Coggins or health papers as a standard has also said that we are willing negotiate this and any other aspect of a sale.

Some things that I do that not everyone does is to make sure my horses are up to date on every shot recommended for this area, not just the standard shots. With 16 horses, I would rather put an extra $150 into making sure every horse is vaccinated for everything that there ARE recorded instances of , then the extra $30 for a Coggins test when there have never been a recorded instance of the disease anywhere near where I leave and when the test won't even be required unless the horse leaves my state. Before a horse leaves here, I probably put $300 worth of "extras" into the horse already that the buyer doesn't even know about including UTD shots, fresh hoof trim, worming, a few days of hay & grain, 30 days free board, and a small portfolio including registration & health info, and interest free payment plans, halter, etc. If the horse already has a Coggins, I send it with them of course. But if I absorb the cost of everything that a new owner MIGHT need, (for example, should the seller pay to transfer the registration of the horse? With some other registries, like Percheron assoc, it is a requirement. ) I would have to advertise my prices beyond what people would even consider buying a horse for. Now if Coggins were required to move a horse WITHIN my state, then I would provide it, but my prices would have to reflect that extra cost. I have started getting better prices for my horses, and when I get to the point where I am getting respectable prices for them, I probably will include a coggins. But when you are already losing money, that extra $30 for Coggins and $10 for health papers really hurts. Frankly, if I'm going to lose that much on horse, I prefer to just keep it or stop raising them.

As it is, I have LOST money one very horse that I have sold to date. Having been on the losing end, when I buy from someone I try to take into consideration what it cost them to produce and care for the horse and out of consideration for them I try to help them at least not lose money in the deal. If this means I pay for a Coggins as part of caring for my future horse, I'm happy to do it. If the horse is a $5000 horse, I might ask for a Coggins.

On the other hand, as a seller, if a buyer makes a specific request of me and I can meet it, I will. If I can't, I try to provide an explanation. But in point of fact, I just sent out a sales contract last night for a horse that I agreed to pay for the Coggins and Health papers on. The buyer will have a chance to read and negotiate the contract further if they want to. Everything is up for negotiation until it is signed by both of us.

In my specific area I don't know of any breeders who provide Coggins or health papers unless the horse already has them or if the horse is very expensive. Things are probably different where you are from. Since the internet, people no longer buy from just where they live and you have to expect that what is normal in one area will not be in another... hence the importance of the sales contract.

If as a buyer you specifically ask for something, most sellers are willing to discuss it as part of a friendly negotiation. The most important thing for most of us is that both the buyer and the horses are happy in the end. If you are interested in a horse and expect a Coggins or health papers, ASK ... you will probably get a positive response.

 

[ThreeCFarm]

We provide coggins tests for every horse sold, regardless of the price. Odds are they won't have a new halter and lead rope, but it will be servicable--not taped or tied together, etc. We will also pay for a health certificate if needed, but paperwork beyond that and the coggins will be up to the buyer. The horses are up to date on trimming, worming, and vaccinations. I provide whatever pictures I have, as well as breeding/foaling history.

By the way, in OK, it is state law that you HAVE to provide a coggins for every horse sold, and if I remember right, you also have to provide a halter and lead. I just think it is something that should be done, regardless.

For those of you who require the buyer to pay for the coggins, if the horse comes up positive, what happens??? Is the buyer just SOL?

 

[shminifancier]

By the way, in OK, it is state law that you HAVE to provide a coggins for every horse sold,

In Wisc. also But there are plenty of people that don't do it I have a few times myself oops that is the way it goes..

 

[alphahorses]

For those of you who require the buyer to pay for the coggins, if the horse comes up positive, what happens???  Is the buyer just SOL?

445048[/snapback]

​

Personally, if a horse had a Coggins done - or any kind of pre-purchase exame which I encourage - before he left my property and it came up positive, I would give the buyer a full refund. If they take advantage of the 30 day free board period after they buy while they arrange transportation and something happens to the horse during those 30 days to make the horse nonservicable in any way, I would give them a full refund. Again, all in the sales contract

FYI... I don't live in TN, but for those of you who do, this might be of interest

Article on Coggins Testing in TN

 

[justjinx]

Sharon---i like the idea of your binders better than my folders. i picked up folders to put info in on the registries, great info i have gotten from the board, papers, etc.

jennifer

 

[Minimor]

I quite agree with alphahorses--if the coggins is going with the horse, that expense must be reflected in the purchase price. Here it's not a mere $20 or $30 to test a horse--more like $100 when all is said and done, unless the vet draws the blood while out to the farm for some other reason. Locally we do not require a coggins to show or to travel, so just about every horse owner I know has one done only if the horse is crossing the international border, or if a specific show, boarding barn, transport or buyer requests one. I don't know of anyone that routinely tests all their horses. Is this province rampant with swamp fever because of this? No.....there are enough horses being tested that if a pocket of EIA does show up, it's detected quite promptly.

So many people on this forum are so adamant that a horse must come with all these things included in the price, even if that price is $250. But, that just isn't the real world. I've bought horses a lot of different places over all these years of horse ownership, and not once has one come with a coggins and health paper. If I wanted those things, I had to pay for each & every one of them, and that holds true if it was a $250 pet gelding, or a $5000 show gelding. Even when a coggins & health paper are required in order for me to get the horse home (as in across the border), I've had to pay extra for those, above and beyond the actual purchase price of the horse. These people that I've bought from....they sell a lot of horses, so obviously there are a lot of agreeable/flexible people out there who are willing to negotiate & make a deal in spite of some "missing" things. As a seller, I like dealing with just that sort of person.

Halters....in this part of the country it's law that a horse must come with a halter, but the lead rope is optional. I've almost never gotten a lead rope thrown in when I've bought horses; the few that did get sent with the horse were either 1)braided twine 2) an old scratchy piece of nylon rope 3) an old frayed cotton rope that was too rotten to hold a medium sized dog, never mind a horse. Halters...I've gotten a few new halters, very few; a few have been used but still in good condition. Most have been ancient, frayed & ill fitting!

 

[MountainViewMiniatures]

Thanks to everyone who mentioned they liked my binders - Just one one little note on the binders! If this is a real expensive horse I'm selling, I get the clear view binders so I can put the horse's registered name in the pocket on the binder and then I slip the best pic I have of the horse in the front. I will also use a colored index inside and label the different categories (registration, health, breeding info, etc) with my computer. I will also include a business card!

To my clients, this looks very professional, all have been very pleased, surprised and give great feedback by this attention to detail - this sticks in their minds and when they are looking for another horse they come right back to me! I also get alot a referrals from clients who are very impressed with the whole "sales package" (and the horse, of course!). This only costs me a couple of dollars if that (sometimes, especially back to school sales I can get regular binders and plain indexes for 58 cents apiece and the clear view for $1.50 - you really only need 1/2' binders - I'll pick up a dozen or so to keep on hand). The plastic sleeves, I buy at Staples in a box of 100+ for very little (sorry, can't remember the price right now)

I would never sell any horse without doing this regardless of price - that second or third horse they may buy (and have bought!) may just be your most expensive! Same with the new halter and lead - courtesies like these create alot of goodwill.

I am lucky in the regard that I don't live too far from an auction house where I can buy good new halters (not the crappy ones) and thick cotton lead ropes with a good snap in quanity of 6- 12 for only $3-$8 for a halter and $3 - $5 for leads. I leave them right in their plastic wrap until I open them right in front of the client to put on their new horse. Again I feel the potential for future sales and referrals by far outweighs the cost.

 

[Dona]

When I sell....I include halter, lead, all necessary health papers/records & coggins, registration paperwork up to date, tons of photos as foal, photos of parents, photos of full & half siblings, and my minis are ALWAYS grommed to the nines with a fresh hoof trim when they leave here!

I always put a tag on both their halter & lead that states their name & the name & address of the new owner...just in case of an accident on the highway. I always send them with a supply of grain & hay for their trip as well.

Oh yes, I like to include a miniature "care" packet if they are going to owners who are new to minis!

And last, but not least.....I send them with lots of love & kisses!