What does AMHA need to do to survive?

[MajorClementine]

Even though neither one of my horses are AMHA I would be happy to join if they had open classes that I could show my minis in. Even if it was a "just for fun" kind of thing. I'd like the experience and to learn about showing without having to get another horse. I'd be happy to pay a small fee to enter. I am more interested in learning and doing things with my two horses than winning. I think it would promote them and get more people interested in AMHA and miniature horses in general. JMO... don't know if it's even doable...

 

[targetsmom]

The New England Miniature Horse Society has always offered Novice classes for newbies and last year added lots of 4-H classes, which were the largest classes in the show. Minis have to be 34" or under for Novice Class, but can be up to 38" for 4-H. The 4-Her must show proof of 4-H membership but NOT registration papers on the mini. More info (for 2012) at http://www.nemhs.org. Entry fess are less in these classes too.

That said, I do wish that AMHA offered (or paid more attention) to lifetime awards such as the AMHR Hall of Fame (HOF) and the Pinto Association lifetime award structure. I know AMHA does offer ROMs but I don't see them as anywhere near as popular as the other registry awards. Once you get going on these lifetime achievements, it is very hard to stop competing - trust me, I know - until you reach your goal. Lots more entry fees for the registry. I guess it helps if there are several fairly equal competitors going for the same award, as we just had in New England Pinto. More fun too!

 

[tagalong]

the ammy classes are really not ammy classes, as I've seen trainers hand the horse off to the ammy, so they are pro trained.

???

That happens in AMHR as well - all the time - the amateur just handles/shows the horse - they do not have to train it. So yes, it is still an ammy class. That is not an AMHA thing.

AMHA was first to have AOTE classes. They had a huge youth section at Worlds before AMHR did. The first to have photos on registration papers. The old AMHR papers with that tiny, badly drawn outline for you to draw markings on were a joke - the worst I have seen in more than 25 years of dealing with assorted breed registries. The were first to go the DNA/PQ route - and yes, that is important. AMHR will be following suit - and it is about time.

One thing I have noticed over the years - at least on this forum - is that many things AMHA does get sneered at, while if AMHR does the same thing it is okay. I am not sure why that is - but it has happened time and time again. I have also seen families happily participating in AMHA shows over the years - and the Youth classes were big - but from reading here you would think that was never the case.

For instance, people complain that AMHA Worlds stays in Texas and say it should move around like it used to - but AMHR Nationals is staying in Tulsa and it does not move around and you rarely read anyone complaining about that.

I also have seen people crowing about how there are more entries at Nationals as compared to Worlds - well, of course there will be. AMHR shows appeal to two different sizes/categories - so double the possibilities - it is just common sense that even if both shows had low attendance, Nationals would always have more entries.

The pendulum has just swung more to the bigger horses/ponies for now.

I actually LIKE horses having to qualify to get to Worlds - I almost wish the "qualifications" were tighter for Nationals. Sometimes you see horses in a class that just should not be there (that happened a lot more in the past) - that is fine if the owner is having fun and enjoying their horses ... but all too often you then hear complaints about how only the BNTs (big name trainers) win and how everything is political. Well, maybe - just maybe - the horse on the end of the BNT's line was of better quality than yours... it happens.

As far as rude BODs etc. go - you can always vote them out of a job. Basing an entire registry on a couple of conversations here and there is not fair to the others who work hard to promote it and the horses.

Anyway - there is my two cents. Both registries have their place and both registries can succeed... and even though the focus here has shifted to the ponies, I still enjoy keeping up with the AMHA shows.

 

[Margo_C-T]

Some good points made about important advances instituted by AMHA over time...actual photos on reg. papers, DNA testing, etc...it is about time and then some that AMHR followed suit, for the veracity of pedigrees and regis. papers!

That said-I do see a tendency toward something of a 'superiority complex' among some in the AMHA. There seems a bit of a 'circle' who consider themselves the 'elite' owners/breeders, who have considerable financial resources, sell often to each other, resist any change that wasn't 'their idea'.I also think that AMHA is much more 'being steered by' trainers and high-end owners...some of whom seem to feel very 'entitled'...to the detriment of the entire organization, at the bottom line.

Perhaps worst of all, in some measure, BOTH registries seem to have an attitude of non-cooperation with/non-recognition of the other. THIS needs to stop, IMO; it hurts BOTH registries and all members of both.

JMHO.

Margo--AMHA Lifetime Member for more than 15 years; member since 1984...and AMHR member for a number of years, though no longer(no longer show in either, and don't plan to, but have learned never to say 'never'!)

 

[JMS Miniatures]

I agree and think AMHA does have it right when it comes to DNA, pictures, etc... It feels more elite which isn't a bad thing but you still need to be member friendly. AMHR needs to come out of the times there is no doubt about that and hopefully it will happen sooner rather then later. Also AMHR is the first to have the Western class and now AMHA has the same thing only called differently, AMHA now has the versatility class which AMHR had first. I like how AMHA handles their grand championship class when it comes to driving and how I wish AMHR would do the same instead of the Stakes class where you can enter only one class and your eligible to enter in the Stakes class even if you placed or not. There are many good points when it comes to the AMHA and the same can be said about AMHR. It's just how the people view it differently.

Now of course we can't compare actual numbers between the National show and the World Show because of the B division that would be redicilious. But I still think the numbers are half at the World show compared to the number Nationals gets in the A division. I think its because of harder qualification which isn't a bad thing but it can be when so few local shows around the area. Also more expensive more so doing office work. That's why I had to choose one or the other because its too expensive to do both these days. AMHR offers more to me, as some one mentioned I love it when my horse's get their Hall of Fame and not sure what AMHA offers when it comes to lifetime achievement. Also AMHR has the roman chariot which I really enjoy.

 

[Minimor]

Overall numbers are larger at R Nationals due to the fact that they have A and B divisions--but when you look at the individual divisions...all things being equal the AMHA classes should be expected to be comparable to AMHR Under division classes--if you are comparing those two things only, that has nothing at all to do with the AMHR Over division horses. From what I have heard the AMHR Under division classes have much larger entries?

 

[tagalong]

By the way - not all the classes at Worlds had low entries... I saw many that were of a respectable size.

 

[Charlotte]

Everyone keeps talking about no AMHA shows in their area....There are programs in place to fix that...it just takes a FEW people interested enough to do it!

AMHA offers two show formats for cheap to put on and easy to put on shows....Community Shows (one day/afternoon, one judge) and Youth Performance Shows (half day youth performance show) This is an easy way to get your feet wet at horse showing, earn AMHA points for a variety of honors and you would be very unlikely to have to compete against a big time trainer. Contact AMHA for information regarding how to put one on. You don't need an indoor arena...just someone's small pasture will do. you don't have to clip in the wintertime. all you have to do is go and have fun!

The Oklahoma Miniature Horse Club is having one this November. Just a few people are working on it....It doesn't take an army.

 

[Maple Hollow Farm]

Everyone keeps talking about no AMHA shows in their area....There are programs in place to fix that...it just takes a FEW people interested enough to do it!

AMHA offers two show formats for cheap to put on and easy to put on shows....Community Shows (one day/afternoon, one judge) and Youth Performance Shows (half day youth performance show) This is an easy way to get your feet wet at horse showing, earn AMHA points for a variety of honors and you would be very unlikely to have to compete against a big time trainer. Contact AMHA for information regarding how to put one on. You don't need an indoor arena...just someone's small pasture will do. you don't have to clip in the wintertime. all you have to do is go and have fun!

The Oklahoma Miniature Horse Club is having one this November. Just a few people are working on it....It doesn't take an army.

Where can I look to get more information on these types of shows?

 

[Riverrose28]

It's alittle off topic, but Tag I do agree with you on AMHR trainers handing off their horses to ammy's as well. I do also agree that AMHR should take a page from AMHA and National contenders whould have to qualify, such as at least showing in a class in a local show to show in it at Nationals. I've been to Nationals and seen people enter their horses in classes that they have never done before and it usually doesn't end well, case in point is liberty class where the horse is confused and it takes 10 people to catch it. Or breeding classes such as produce of dam. but now back to AMHA and how they can improve, I think the one day show idea is great, but it would be expensive and would take a club to sponsor it, and maybe offer beginner classes for the newbies as we really need them to stay interested, and not get discouraged.

 

[RockRiverTiff]

I've been saying the same thing about the lack of AMHA shows in our area for years, and I do hope that the new Community Shows program will help to revive them, but at this point I worry it's too little too late. The small AMHR shows are so well-established it's going to be hard to convince the clubs and fairs to invest in another, separate show, especially when many of those clubs and fairs already tried AMHA shows and found them to be less profitable. Many, many county fairs in our region include AMHR shows. They're low-cost, laidback and family friendly and also give the non-horsey members of a family something else to do during the show. From a registry promotion standpoint, these shows come with a ready-made audience that fits our most common demographic of new members, whereas standalone shows often struggle to attract outside audiences. If AMHA wants to amp up their show attendance, then I say they find out which county and state fairs that don't already have an AMHR show are in areas with a good concentration of AMHA members and send them information on the new Community Shows.

Also, since the youth are so important, maybe AMHA could work with 4H and other horse/pony clubs to start a program that would allow youth to earn points and gain recognition for participation in 4H and open shows. Times are tough, which is no doubt hurting show participation for all the horse registries, but this would make the kids that are showing on a budget feel appreciated and give them further incentive to some day show at the higher level while also increasing AMHA's exposure in the greater horse/livestock industry.

 

[sfmini]

Thank you Tagalong, for your very accurate response.

When I was a director, I busted anybody who made comments about people needing to attend if they cared. By the time I was done with them, they were educated on why a lot of people don't attend meetings. You have to believe, though, that the "biggies" aren't there either, and very few of them get involved with anything if they do attend. Most of the attendees are locals and a few regulars who aren't big breeders, and very few big breeders.

Not going to even talk about the voting topic, I have tried to explain that for years and just got attacked and flamed. BTW, AMHR doesn't allow remote voting either.

World qualifications, that is a touchy subject, if they are too loose, local shows will be hurt. Too tight and you can have the same problem with the world show taking a hit as well.

Info on the new types of shows are in the rule book.

As for no shows in your area, those of you who are impacted should contact the World and Local Show Committees via the AMHA office and make a new proposal to help you qualify, maybe expand the hardship rule to allow people who are not within xxx number of miles of any AMHA shows be able to qualify in some alternative fashion, maybe just based on distance alone or so many wins at x number of open horse shows (be sure to include how you would prove those wins).

While rotating locations would be nice, it isn't feasible as was mentioned in an earlier post, facilities won't go for an every other year contract. The Arabs stopped rotating shows many years ago for that reason. The world show committee has searched for another, less expensive and acceptable facility with available time with no luck. We span two weekends, that makes for a problem in finding a new location. We need to keep on top of our contract with the Will Rogers facility as the contract for AQHA with the Ohio State Fairgrounds ends in 2015 and they are making noises about moving the show to Will Rogers or Tulsa if the fairgrounds doesn't add more stabling and another arena, and that show is over three weeks long. For them to move, the facility would have to make a big chunk of time available around the same time as our World show......

Some new classes have snuck into the rule book with no fanfare, one being reinsmanship, would love to see that class offered at shows.

JMHO, I think they need to look at the classes with low entries and have the option to combine or eliminate them until such time that entries grow enough. I also tried to get them to consider eliminating the top ten plaques and people really got upset at that thought, but it would save a lot of money which could be reflected in the entry fees.

Tiff, you have some great ideas, but I think that we should step up to the plate and do the research in our own states and send the contact info for those counties and states that don't currently have mini shows at their county fairs. Ohio has 88 counties and I know that kind of research for every state just isn't feasible for the AMHA office.

Since I am off work on disability, I will tackle Ohio. How about it LB members? Anybody else willing to step up and do the same for your state?

 

[RockRiverTiff]

I would be willing to do the research in Illinois.

 

[ruffian]

Hey let's move AQHA Congress to Texas, and Worlds to Ohio!! Sounds good to me!

 

[Flying minis]

Take advantage of the dissent in AMHR right now - there are MANY people in AMHR who are unhappy - at Nationals it was obvious, everything from the Shetland influence and prevalence ot the measuring (there were some BIG horses in both divisions). If AMHA could take advantage of that, they could gain many members. All the things you are talking about are ways to take advantage - lower fees, more shows, etc., but probably the biggest is for AMHA to ACTIVELY WELCOME new members. Whether justified or not, when talking to people about why they stay R and not A, the attitude of the members is the biggest reason. I've been told AMHA is more "snooty", "snobbish", "arrogant", and a number of other terms, by not just one or two but dozens of people. Whether this attitude is real or just a perception, it has to change in order to really grow the organization.

I'm in an area where I could easily attend multiple (at least 3) AMHA shows a year, but don't. I have both overs and unders, and half my horses couldn't show A. For me, I can really only show one registry, so it is the one that all my horses can show at. However, a lot of R breeders are concentrating on unders, as with the Shetland influence in R's, many breeders who don't want to "go Shetland" feel they can only be competitive in the unders. THOSE are the people AMHA needs to target!

 

[JMS Miniatures]

Take advantage of the dissent in AMHR right now - there are MANY people in AMHR who are unhappy - at Nationals it was obvious, everything from the Shetland influence and prevalence ot the measuring (there were some BIG horses in both divisions). If AMHA could take advantage of that, they could gain many members. All the things you are talking about are ways to take advantage - lower fees, more shows, etc., but probably the biggest is for AMHA to ACTIVELY WELCOME new members. Whether justified or not, when talking to people about why they stay R and not A, the attitude of the members is the biggest reason. I've been told AMHA is more "snooty", "snobbish", "arrogant", and a number of other terms, by not just one or two but dozens of people. Whether this attitude is real or just a perception, it has to change in order to really grow the organization.

I'm in an area where I could easily attend multiple (at least 3) AMHA shows a year, but don't. I have both overs and unders, and half my horses couldn't show A. For me, I can really only show one registry, so it is the one that all my horses can show at. However, a lot of R breeders are concentrating on unders, as with the Shetland influence in R's, many breeders who don't want to "go Shetland" feel they can only be competitive in the unders. THOSE are the people AMHA needs to target!

I totally agree with you, and feel the same way. However I feel that unless they do something next year like I mentioned before cutting the hardship fees down in half for the last year it may be too late considering that AMHA will be closing its doors to hardshipping next year. I feel like this is AMHA's last chance to bring in new members, and then just be able to keep the ones they have once it closes.

I wish that the Reinsmanship class would have made it and I know someone is trying to get the chariot class that AMHR has be brought up for AMHA but if we are looking to cut classes then that probably won't happen. I think that's just it AMHA needs to have some fun classes to keep members interested, like the youth liberty they have at the start of the World show. The Chariot classes for me is a big relief giver when showing at the National show, it's a blast and I looked forward to it this past year and already looking forward to it next year. Also I like the awards the World show gives out, yeah the awards at Nationals are nice but can be better. I like the plaques for top 10 and not sure if that will bring in more members if you take those away even with the lower entry fees.

 

[LaVern]

I agree --- I have gone with AMHR all these years because I love that 35-36 inch B horse. And there are a lot of nice Shetland of that size. But I don't want to raise the big honkers or show them or put a bunch of tall stuff into my program. 38- 40 inches just doesn't look miniature to me.

Now if you are a good handler you can get them measured in. And if you are a hot shot salesman and are selling to Australia or someplace that, sure you will get the high end buyers, they don't give a hoot, but for me to try to tell Joe Blow down the road that the horse is 38 inches when it is not, won't work. The average Joe Blow is no dummy. And I don't want to sell to people and have to have them fret over size.

If there ever was a time for AMHA, because of their honest strict measurement policies and DNA ing, to come back it is now.

If they would ever consider, after this close up thing, to allow, say maybe up to 36 inch, horse to stay in and create a separate category for them, like ASPC did with AMHR a lot of us would be gone. Perhaps only mares and geldings. Call it AMHAO Then they could own us. I guess I would rather be owned by a Miniature Horse outfit than another Breed.

I have always been crazy about Nationals, but this year the atmosphere was different, or at least it seemed that way to me.

 

[sdmini]

It's not that hard to qualify for World, taken right off the website.

World Show Hardship Qualifying under Reasonable Attempt

1. The horse/exhibitor must exhibit in a minimum of two (2) AMHA Approved local shows under a minimum of six (6) judges. An AMHA Championship Show qualifies for one (1) local show or three (3) judges.

• Qualifying for the AMHA World Show is considered on a class by class basis. The horse/exhibitor must exhibit in exactly the same class in a minimum of two (2) AMHA Approved local shows under a minimum of six (6) judges to exhibit in the same class during the AMHA World Show.
  

2. If a horse/exhibitor wishes to exhibit in a class during the World Show which was not offered during World Show Qualifying period, the following must be forwarded to the AMHA office:

• Owners/exhibitors must provide a copy of the class list from the two (2) local shows referenced in #2. Show Location and Show Date must be provided.
  

• Indicate the class you wish to show in, but was not offered.
  

You could also go to one local show, show in one class and be eligible to attend a regional show and place top ten and be automatically qualified for World.

I hear it all the time to "AMHA is snobby" but you need to ask them when the last time they were at World. I know if I judged B stallions by the one a friend took to Nationals ten years ago I wouldn't have a good opinion of their quality...then again it took 8th and there were only 8 in the class. AMHR class sizes have not always been that large.

Classes at Worlds use to be quite large. There are more reasons I'm sure but I see World lacking the support of the "average joe" farms. Pretty ironic as World has made accommodations for the smaller, amateur breeder where Nationals has not. World has the AOTE program, two levels of Amateur, height and age breakdown of Ammy horses and a AOTE and Amateur Futurity. Nationals have one Ammy level with two break downs Sr/Jr. I'm not knocking AMHR for it; don't know where they would find more time for that many classes, just making a point.

Both AMHA and AMHR have good and bad points find which one works for you and run with it.

 

[tagalong]

There are more reasons I'm sure but I see World lacking the support of the "average joe" farms. Pretty ironic as World has made accommodations for the smaller, amateur breeder where Nationals has not. World has the AOTE program, two levels of Amateur, height and age breakdown of Ammy horses and a AOTE and Amateur Futurity. Nationals have one Ammy level with two break downs Sr/Jr. I'm not knocking AMHR for it; don't know where they would find more time for that many classes, just making a point.

Very well said... so much for the alleged "snooty" atmosphere with that many options for Ammys. AMHA does not seem to be geared just towards the BNTs, as many insist. The same - and more - BNTs are at the R shows as well.

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

Take advantage of the dissent in AMHR right now - there are MANY people in AMHR who are unhappy - at Nationals it was obvious, everything from the Shetland influence....

Um, they won't be happy in AMHA then, either. The horse who won Supreme Champion at Worlds this year is, ahem, a Shetland.