What does AMHA need to do to survive?

Miniature Horse Talk Forums

Help Support Miniature Horse Talk Forums:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
good for you targetsmom. I love to see support of 4-H since my kids were active for many years and it's such a good program. Check with the Show Committee on clarification of these rules, but, since the kids are not related to you......but check anyway. that may be something that needs a rule change for clarification.
 
"" I can't show in those classes either because our minis are used for our 4-H Club. ""

""it was for ONE class at Centrals and ONE class at Worlds. (He's a 2YO)

IF (and it's a big IF) I do AOTE next year I'll have TWO classes to show in if I drive him. TWO. Meanwhile, no one else can play with him, drive him, my youth can't show him, bathe him, whatever. For TWO classes. ""

Where on earth does this misinformation come from???

Doesn't anyone read the rule book????

The above two quotes are totally WRONG. That AMHA AOTE horse can show in any Amateur or Open class he is qualified for or Youth classes with a family member.

You can show that AMHA AOTE horse at any and all 4-H shows, saddle club shows, PtHA shows, AMHR shows and your kids and all of your family members just about back to the monkeys can show him too. AS LONG AS he isn't handled or groomed or trained by a professional (a professional is someone who takes money for working with horses)

Doesn't anyone read the rule book? Page 144 of the 2012 AMHA Rule Book. AND, if you have any questions contact a member of the AMHA Show Committee (get their contact info from the office if it's not on the web site)

I meant I can only show him in two AOTE classes. I can, and do, show him in open classes. HOWEVER: my youth are NOT family members, and thus, cannot show him if I want to play AOTE. Heck, I can't even show a horse I CO-OWN due to the fact the other co-owner shows him AOTE. We are not related.

So, my remark went: if I want to play AOTE, for just two AOTE classes a YEAR, no one else can play with him. My family lives 1300 miles away, they sure aren't interested! :D
 
OK, I did check with Christy at AMHA about the question of AOTE and having non-related kids work with your minis and here is the response:

Mary -



I have verified this with the Chair of the Show Rules Committee and you are correct in reading the rule.



You would not be qualified for AOTE if the youth showing your horses is 4H and is not related to you as per the AMHA Rule Book.

 
OK, I did check with Christy at AMHA about the question of AOTE and having non-related kids work with your minis and here is the response:

Mary -

I have verified this with the Chair of the Show Rules Committee and you are correct in reading the rule.

You would not be qualified for AOTE if the youth showing your horses is 4H and is not related to you as per the AMHA Rule Book.
Thank you Mary for letting us know!

Isn't it wonderful when a thread comes together to get the correct information out there!!

We should always go directly to the source for official answers so always double check, Mary had interpreted the rule book correctly but she double checked. Your number one source for answers about registry rules and regulations is always AMHA or AMHR/ASPC directly.

default_yes.gif
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thank you Jean-B (sorry my smart phone cant do the underline)

I agree with everything you said.

I apoligize to everyone if I came off angry. I am just so upset with the AMHA AOTE show people in the northwest. I can't get pictures or prove that they are cheating. They already hate me because I speak up and refuse to join thir deceptive group.

I will never be going to the world show. I show my minis for the pure joy of showing and playing dress up for the day. I disagree with it being more expensive with only one judge. Multi judge shows and point chasers dont have big attendance in my state. Paying several judges just jacks up the entry fee. I cant afford that.

PtHA really has it together. Reasonable fees and you dont qualify for the world show just go. I like there OCAP and other programs. Im looking into AMHR too. After what I have been through with the AOTE group here? And reading the posts here? Im done. AMHA die's then they brought it on themselves for allowing the big guns to deceive them. Sad very sad...

I like my Open shows, Fairs and Pinto. More middle class people like myself who train and prepare all by themselves.
 
Thanks everyone for getting the correct information out. And now, Who is willing to do the work to get a rule change proposal written up and presented? I really feel this is something that needs to be addressed and probably has not been brought to the attention of the Show Rules Committee in the past...or at least I haven't heard of anyone bringing up this issue.

Like I said...I REALLY like to hear of the miniature horse being used in 4-H and I would like to help to try to get some kind of rule change done that would allow the AOTE horse to be used for this purpose. And would this need to be for 'only' a registered 4-H member or would there possibly be cases where an AOTE horse might be used by an unrelated youth for driving? or open shows? or a parade, etc etc? I can't see any way these activities would be a conflict with the purpose of AOTE.
 
I just feel the need to share something here that recently came up for me. I sold a young double reg.stallion this summer to some very nice people who want to breed. They took this little man home and proceeded to fill in the paper work to have him transferred to their name and sent it off along with the appropriate fees (or so they thought) They just got the papers back last week telling them they must first buy a membership or the registry will not recognize their ownership (won't complete the transfer) They are not wealthy people and when they looked at what the 2 memberships plus transfers were going to cost they declined. He will not be transfered from my name and even worse, they will never register a single foal they breed because they see no reason to pay for memberships,transfers, then stallion reports, foal registrations, dna, and then permanent registration. They have decided they will NOT show in breed shows, won't register anything and will just happily breed unregistered horses to show in open shows and sell/enjoy as pets. That revenue is never coming back into AMHA coffers and they are not alone. I am a strong advocate for registering horses and I have also chosen to drop my memberships, altho I have also discontinued breeding. I know of several others making this same choice. Why must the registry charge for every move an owner makes? It is prohibitive to ownership and discourages newcomers and those like me who have been 'in the club' for years. It is even worse since we are Canadians and they charge more because we are not in the US (and when our dollar was below the US dollar it was really bad). Just my little vent.
 
Question here regarding 4-H.... When my kids were in they had to be responsible for their horse in all areas...training, grooming, feeding and all care (of course with adult supervision), but they had to do the work daily and show prep. Is this not still the case? If it is still a requirement then how can an AOTE horse be appropriate for a 4-H'er? (before we go any farther with AMHA on this we better have some ducks in a row)
 
I think the 4-H rules have changed over time and perhaps vary by state. When I was in 4-H 50 years ago, all of us owned our own horses and of course, did all our own work. These days, a lot of animals are leased and/or boarded so care really varies. In CT, 4-Hers have to keep records of the time they spend with their animal projects, breaking it down by category such as grooming, training, feeding, etc. As an example, we just had an "Open Barn" here tonight where the kids could work with their project animals and participate in stall cleaning, feeding,etc. Once the time changes, we are not sure if we will be able to continue the Open Barns once a week. In reality, our kids are young (oldest non-special needs members just turned 13) and pretty inexperienced, so the amount of "training" of the horses that they do is limited. But they do help out - under supervision - with stall cleaning and feeding. Of course, an experienced 18 or 19 year old member could potentially be doing a lot of the work and training. That is one reason that I don't see how how a rule change would work... in some cases a 4-Her COULD be giving the AOTE unfair advantage, if they were clipping, etc.

Now the rule here for 4-H Fairs is that the members are supposed to do all the "fitting" which for minis would included clipping, and they do have to do ALL the handling of the horses at the show. Only a few of our members were experienced enough for that this year, and even so, I did the clipping because I had a Pinto show the week before. I told the member to tell the judge she did not do the clipping, that the horse was already clipped, but she did the rest of the "fitting".

I am OK with leaving the rule the way it is, as I made my choice and picked 4-H over AOTE. But it does worry me that someone else might choose AOTE, and that would be a shame.
 
I have a stallion that was purchased from LK that has applications for A and R. I wont be registering him with A because their prices are far to expensive for me when I am not a fan of th "A" horses. they're to little for my liking.
 
Perhaps it "small" to you but some of the best horses in the country show AMHA. I have seen horses that continually do very well in AMHR get the gate at several of the AMHA shows..... just saying.
 
Just as there are AMHA winners who get the gate in AMHR.

Just saying.

I am puzzled, though, how are horse that is eligible for both A and R can be too small? I can understand someone preferring R becaused they don't care for horses less than 34". But--if you pick an under 34" how can AMHHA be too small?
 
How about allowing ASPC AMHR classes on the same weekend , perhaps allowing AMHA on one day and AMHR ASPC on the second day ... it would help both registries !
 
Norah--that is allowed. There are a number of shows here that run ASPC/AMHR classes one day and AMHA the next.
 
Here in Europe when it's suggested they always say AMHA doesn't allow AMHR and ASPC classes At a rated show... So , it's defiantly allowed ...??
 
Yes, for sure, many shows do it. You cannot mix classes on the same day but there is no problem having ASPC/AMHR on Saturday and AMHA on Sunday. They are not 'the same show' they are two separate one day shows.
 
For the new owners who won't transfer because of membership cost, they only need one membership in AMHA, the spouse is eligible without paying a second membership. In AMHR you do have to pay for two individuals but at a reduced cost for the second member in the household. If they had wanted to breed and register foals, they will have to be members anyway.

For the person that won't register there stallion in AMHA because you don't like them that little? I am confused here. Your going to register the stallion in AMHR, his size will not change if you don't register him in AMHA. If he is going to outgrow his AMHA papers then I would understand that, but your not registering him with AMHA will not make him bigger.

Personally I think its a disservice to any horse to not have its paperwork in order. Down the line if you wanted to sell your stallion and he doesn't have AMHA papers, you might find it harder to make that sale. No one wants to deal with applications on a 6 year old no matter what registry it is. To much time, money and headache. If you do it now, it won't be harder later. As for prices, will your foals be worth the same price without AMHA papers? I find that its easier to appeal to more than one registry with any horse. While some are good enough to only have one set of papers, when the opportunity is there, why not make a horse more marketable to a broader range of buyers.
 
For the new owners who won't transfer because of membership cost, they only need one membership in AMHA, the spouse is eligible without paying a second membership. In AMHR you do have to pay for two individuals but at a reduced cost for the second member in the household. If they had wanted to breed and register foals, they will have to be members anyway.

.
Actually that is not correct about AMHR.

For AMHR the rule is that the person sending in the paperwork must be a member. Yes, that means you can put two names on the papers and only one has to be a member. Yes, that means you can have the person you are buying from send in the paperwork if they are a member. Yes, that means your next door neighbor who is a member can send in paperwork for you.
 
I have a stallion that was purchased from LK that has applications for A and R. I wont be registering him with A because their prices are far to expensive for me when I am not a fan of th "A" horses. they're to little for my liking.

He is already registered A He is over right now as a 2 year old. He wont keep his papers so their is no reason to apply for a membership when he is the only one I will have as an A. He stands 34.5 right now.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top