What is your opinion

[Irish Hills Farm]

You're welcome Lisa.

 

[Riverdance]

Well frankly if AMHA horses are so much more elite and a true breed as you have implied.. then guess it makes no difference in AMHR if they are allowing the AMHA horses in - meaning effecting the "trueness" of the breed within the AMHR registry.

Why is it every time an AMHA person responds to a question, they get blasted from AMHR people saying we are "snotty" and think we are "elite"?

All I was stating is what the registries are doing. AMHA has decided to close their books, and yes, AMHR people were very upset with that when it was first anounced, saying AMHA was doing it to get back at them

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AMHA is not trying to get at any registry, just that they decided to close thier books. For the most part, I think it is because of the European horses.(I was at the meetings a few years ago when they first started talking about closing their books and why.) Too many inferior horses are being hardshipped into AMHA in Europe where there is no one but a local vet to judge whether the horse is good enough to be hardshipped in. (AMHA always have their directors judge a horse for hardshipping into the registry in the US. From what I was told, it was more than the height of the animal, but was the horse a good candidate to improve the breed too)

Please people, stop trying to snip at each registry, You like AMHR and Shetlands, I like AMHA and Minis. That is what makes horse shows. With the way some people think, we should be sniping at any breed just becasue it is not ours. Give it a break!!!

 

[~Lisa~]

This has nothing to do with what I like in fact I have everything here from 29 inch AMHA res world champion stallio(prior to my owning him) to a ASPC pony. I assure you I am not trying to "snip" at anything lol

 

[Minimor]

As I said before, all breeds have heads that do not fit the classic breed standard for that breed. As for Morgan's, the biggest disservice to the Show Morgan World was a horse called Noble Flair Now if you know anything about Morgan's, you will know this horse. He is registered a Morgan, but it is rather common knowledge that his sire was a Hackney horse and not a Morgan. Thus the UGLY head was introduced to the Morgan World. The breeder of this horse was one of the top breeders with the most money in the Morgan World and he was able to get away with cheating (at that time). Another top trainer and horse breeder did not. Again, if you know the Morgan World, you will know whom I am talking about. The introduction of DNA caught this breeder in a round about way, but not till after his"Morgan" won World Championship and a few years of his get being sold for over $100,000 apiece. Sad part with that one, is the horse really looked like a Morgan (as most often Morgan blood will produce a horse that looks like a Morgan) with a classical Morgan head. Noble Flair did not, and he had a butt ugly head!!
Many of the top performing Morgan's today have Noble Flair blood in them. Several of my horses did too and yes, some of mine did not have the classically beautiful Morgan head, which drove me nuts. My trainer kept telling me that a riding/driving Morgan does not win on its head.

There are also a lot of poor quality Morgan's with nasty heads, especially those that are more the stocky kind used for cattle driving.

Since I bred for halter as well as Park, I had the more refined carriage type horses and most of my horses had pretty heads.

Still, I am a head freak and have to have horses with pretty heads, one of the reasons why I love my Minis so much. Most of mine have beautiful heads!! Another reason why I am not a pony fan, nor was I a Saddlebred fan because of their heads. And yes, Saddlebreds come from Morgan's but the head was lost along the way.

Umm, no, I’d have to say that ugly heads existed before Noble Flair, and I'd have said there were others out there worse than him. (And no, I’m not talking about draft type Morgans, I’m talking about some of the leading show horses in the breed and some of the most popular breeding stallions.) Perhaps someone out there knows for a fact that he was sired by a Hackney, but IMO he shows it less than some other horses before him. I always took them to be ugly Saddlebreds, but perhaps those horses were actually of Hackney breeding too. But from everything I’ve seen and heard there was a non-Morgan (or two or 3 or more!) in the breeding shed well prior to Noble Flair’s conception--and in saying that I am making no judgment or comment on his parentage, I am only replying to Riverdance's comments about him.

As for the other stallion you refer to, I guess it’s all in perception. He was a lovely horse & I liked him a lot, but he didn’t look at all like a Morgan—IMO (and many agreed with me, I can’t tell you how many different people commented to me about how obviously Saddlebred he was) he looked like the Saddlebred that he was. While I’m all for purity of the breed, I was somewhat sorry to see that horse expunged from the registry. Unlike so many of the others that were so popular & so off type and/or homely, he was a nice horse—good conformation, pretty, & good moving—he was an asset to the breed. At least his breeder knew how to pick a good mare!! Too bad those that did it before him didn’t have the same taste.

Saddlebreds came from Morgans? As I recall they came from similar stock as the Morgans (Narragansett pacers for one) but not actually from Morgans. We had a Saddlebred mare for awhile, and were friends with some Saddlebred breeders, so I’ve done some research on the breed.

There are two Morgan Magazines. One approached the horse show world with driving/ saddleseat and halter horses. The other catered to the more thick draft horse type Morgan This seems to be the type Morgan which is the one you are referring to, and many in that magazine did not have so classical a head. Since they were bred to be work horses, breeders did not care that they kept the classical Morgan head. Now I am not talking about the show western horses. Futurity French Command was a MAJOR drive behind the show western horse and his get have OUTSTANDING heads.

The only Morgan magazine I've ever subscribed to was The Morgan Horse. I wasn't aware that there was a magazine that catered to the thick draft horse type of Morgan. For that matter I wasn't aware that there were enough thick draft type Morgans to warrant a magazine of their own.

If the horses in that publication are as bad as you describe then I guess I never missed much, because I never went for draft horse types. There have been newsletters relating to colorful Morgans, and publications that feature the working western Morgans, but working western Morgans are different from draft horse types so that cannot be what you refer to. No matter, we aren't discussing draft horses anyway--I was not considering that type of horse when I commented on the ugly heads on some Morgans--in all honesty IMO that ugliness extends beyond the head, but we're only talking heads here I think--I was referring to certain show horses pictured in The Morgan Horse over the years. I haven't subscribed in a few years now, but in looking through a friend's issues I have to say that I think it's gotten worse, not better, in recent years.

IMO the pretty headed Morgans were some of the western bred horses…Waer’s Don Juan comes to mind—now THERE was a pretty western horse!! He was a pretty fine example of Morgan type too.

I’m not saying that the Shetlands look like (as an example) Waer’s Don Juan (though there may be some that do), but they do look a lot like some of the breed’s show horses. It’s all in perception of course, but many of us do see the likeness, even if you don’t. Actually I think many of the ponies look better than many of the Morgans – I am dismayed at the direction the Morgan breed has taken. In comparison, I don’t have a problem with the Shetland influence becoming stronger in the Mini breed—I figure there are worse things that could happen than to have Minis looking more like Shetlands.

The thing is, for those that don’t want actual Shetland breeding in their Minis, there will always be non-Shetland Miniatures available—I don’t believe every Mini breeder out there is going to change over to include Shetlands in their breeding program—so those that do use Shetlands aren’t taking anything away from those that don’t want that. Is it fair? Overall, yes, as long as the Shetlands being hardshipped in are truly 38” and under.