What is YOUR standard of perfection

[mininik]

"I would want a Shetland judge at Congress. Same as a mini judge at Nationals. If we pay that much money, we need and deserve a judge that i s very versed in the breed." The Simple Life Farm

Give me a break. Lee IS an ASPC Modern/Classic "Shetland judge." He is also an AMHA, AMHR, POA, WCMH and CHMC judge. (See a quote from his website http://www.alohapuppies.com/about.html below for more info. Qualified enough for ya?) MOST judges are carded with more than one association. You don't have to "only" judge whatever breed you are mainly involved with.

"Lee Crutchfield

Lee has had over 18 years of experience breeding dogs as well as breeding, training and showing National Champion Horses in a variety of disciplines; during which time he has owned and operated two successful businesses from 1989 to 1998. He has shown multiple horses to over 50 National titles; including National Championships and two Reserve National Grand Championships. He has also assisted several amateur and youth handlers to their own National Championships. Lee also has experience selling and exporting horses to Puerto Rico, Japan, Brazil, Australia, Saudi Arabia and England. Lee is a recognized Senior Carded Judge (by age 30), has judged more than thirty sanctioned shows, several Regional Championship Show, two National Shows, a World Champion Show, and an International Show! He currently holds a judge’s card with the AMHA, AMHR, ASPC, Modern/Classic, POA, WCMH, and the CMHC. Lee is also on the AMHA’s LOC committee."

 

[strass]

Color me silly, but I'm not real worried about Lee screwing something up. As mininik pointed out, he's an accomplished judge. Which, is the point: If a judge can truly be honest to the organization that he/she is judging and not try to influence it with their 'preferred' organization's type, then everything will work out.

Sure, there will always be differences of opinion. All I care about is that there isn't an agenda.

Now, can I ask a question: Why is this same old argument being played out AGAIN?

How about this instead: I like Blue and I think Green is hideous. If you like Green, you are wrong and should not be allowed to play with my toys. Blue was in the sky before Green was on the ground so it is clearly the superior color. Also, Green cannot exist without Blue, so even though they are of the same bloodline, Green-liking people are morons for saying that Green is it's own color.

 

[Jill]

How about this instead: I like Blue and I think Green is hideous.

Funny you should put it that way, because I've been wondering for awhile now if my preference for purple is offensive to some?

It's exactly how I've been thinking and wondering why others have to find hurt feelings or rudeness when a person gives their opinion about something being discussed. Maybe I'm too hard headed, but I haven't ever been hurt by someone else's opinion... OH! I either agree or disagree but that's about it

The rare time that it really does get to me is when I figure I need to make sure that I'm really secure in that particular opinion of my own. Usually it means I've got more thinking to do

 

[Nostalgia]

To each their own - we all have different opinions and breed for different things and different judges will pick different horses. Stock horse judges might prefer a stock horse type and arabian judges mor of an arab type - however both registries make every effort to educate our judges to pick the best horse of any type (the nice quarter type should place higher then the so so arab type and vice versa)

I have been told by a judge that they didn't like the refinement of one filly I was showing and at the same show the other judge gave her Grand.

Kim, this is close My mother comes from Morgans and Saddlebreds - she doesn't like the heavier bodied horses so we breed for horses with more leg, longer-upright neck, etc. Below is a picture of Nostalgias Lets Roll, World Champion Jr. Stallion, this picture was taken of him last year as a yearling measuring 31.5", he has nothing but AMHA/AMHR miniature horses in his pedigree - nothing that is also registered as a pony. Not that I don't love some of the double registereds

Jet Set Go owned by the Rays is one of my favorites.

And just so everyone knows - I grew up riding saddleseat equitation, dressage, horsemanship, reining, hunters, and driving road/harness ponies - so I like them all and have an strong appreciation for each breed. This is just what I like to show, of course if you see my 23 yr. old miniature mare that we raised when I was 4 she looks much different - but I love her the same.

"If I could get these in mini size, I'd have a 100.

"

Natalie

 

[Jill]

Oh, and I think that it takes red and blue to make purple -- 1st and 2nd place.

Green is made of blue and yell -- 1st and 3rd place.

Clearly, Mike, Purple is a little better than green

But then admittedly this would mean blue is better than purple

Unless we want to talk supreme

 

[mininik]

You can keep your colors. I'm all for dark matter...

 

[strass]

Oh, and I think that it takes red and blue to make purple -- 1st and 2nd place.

Green is made of blue and yell -- 1st and 3rd place.

Clearly, Mike, Purple is a little better than green

But then admittedly this would mean blue is better than purple

Unless we want to talk supreme

Well, we did breed Red Alert to a mare named Blue Dawn this year, so I am truly hoping that Purple turns out to be a winning combo.

You can keep your colors. I'm all for dark matter...

Too cute.

 

[whitney]

Libertys Miss Kentucky!

The only thing that mare lacks is the little tippy ears.

If people need a breed standard IMO she's IT.

 

[JWC sr.]

I always love to see all the different comments that are made in a thread such as this. With the exception of the ones where personal shots are taken at someone because of the respective likes or dislikes.

Personally and remember personally because if you ask my dearly beloved you would get more than likely get some different answers! LOL I like the looks of Classic Shetlands, but do not care for the moderns. I love to watch them, but have no desire to own one. I love the look of a great through bred, but do not want one of those either.

I love the look of Miss Kentucky "When she shows well" and have held her on several occasions between classes etc., but even with her I would change a few things in my minds eye. I personally don't like the hackney look either, but that is just me.

With all that said and not to demean any other breed, it is just my likes and dislikes.

I also think the miniature horse has one of the best dispositions of any breed in the equine world. Not to mention the fact that they have their own look even though it is constantly changing, which I think is beautiful. I also think the normal run mini’s of today would wipe the floor with the horses that won back in the beginning of the breed. They get better every year.

What we at Cherryville Farms are trying to breed is a horse that looks like a miniature Arabian, with the heart, temperament, functionality and conformation to allow them to do well at driving, halter and performance. I know that is a tall order, but that is what we continually strive towards. So I guess that would be my “Ideal Miniature”, which in my opinion has not been produced completely yet. There are some that are close, but there is still room for improvement.

As far as the judges are concerned, one of the best things I think we could do for them in order to make them consistent is to produce a visual model of the ideal miniature horse with all the nuances such as shoulder movement, neck tie in, length of neck, leg placement etc etc.. Thereby giving them what is a consensus "ideal" American Miniature Horse. A tough job to produce this, but many other breeds have done it so people have an idea of what one is supposed to look like and move like. As versus the rambling verbal description that we currently have that is so open for interpretation. OH!

 

[willowoodstables]

:

Nostaligia...YEPPERS that is one of the 100 I'd have..love the hingy-neck (which makes setting the head at the poll sooo much easier and prettier!)

As for colors, preferential to blue and kelly green myself, so heavens Lisa, we'd clash LOLOLOL

Kim

 

[MiLo Minis]

So, once again, we ALL AGREE - we cannot agree on a defined breed standard OTHER THAN THE FACT THAT OUR BREED IS NO MORE THAN 38" TALL - correct?

How do we ensure that the one standard that we do ALL hold to be true and that we ALL AGREE on is upheld?

 


Some of you may find this a silly and worthless discussion but then you could always stay off the thread if it is a waste of time to you rather than clogging it up with what has nothing to do with what we are discussing - it would be appreciated.

 

[mininik]

"The one standard that we do ALL hold to be true and that we ALL AGREE on" is height, right? Now this "alarming trend" you're seeing of ASPC Modern/Hackney looking Ponies in AMHA/AMHR is all about them being measured unfairly?

 

[Jill]

So, once again, we ALL AGREE - we cannot agree on a defined breed standard OTHER THAN THE FACT THAT OUR BREED IS NO MORE THAN 38" TALL - correct?

How do we ensure that the one standard that we do ALL hold to be true and that we ALL AGREE on is upheld?

 


Some of you may find this a silly and worthless discussion but then you could always stay off the thread if it is a waste of time to you rather than clogging it up with what has nothing to do with what we are discussing - it would be appreciated.

I don't even understand what you are asking OH! Is this just another measuring thread

Are you saying the ONE standard we agree on is the height? (which, btw, is fine by me -- 38" worth of horse for us each to decide what we like in our own minis...)

 

[Genie]

 


What we at Cherryville Farms are trying to breed is a horse that looks like a miniature Arabian, with the heart, temperament, functionality and conformation to allow them to do well at driving, halter and performance. I know that is a tall order, but that is what we continually strive towards. So I guess that would be my “Ideal Miniature”, which in my opinion has not been produced completely yet. There are some that are close, but there is still room for improvement.

 

 


We too have been striving for "the smallest example of the perfect full sized horse" and if I were to be asked for the "look" I would say "Arabian" as well.

 


I have to say I love the movement of the hackney and wouldn't mind that action in the little horses on our farm.

 


"The smaller the better" in our opinion and we will always stay with that focus in our breeding program, and we like our horses to be in the 30 inch range, definitely not over 33 inches..

 


We only have about 5 years left to be in the business and then "Father Time" will take over.

 

 

 

[mininik]

"We too have been striving for "the smallest example of the perfect full sized horse" and if I were to be asked for the "look" I would say "Arabian" as well.

I have to say I love the movement of the hackney and wouldn't mind that action in the little horses on our farm." Genie

You could always breed for Arabian type Miniatures like these:




^ Watching that, I have a very hard time believing you've seen anything of the sort at any AMHA or AMHR show, MiLo.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who's confused, Jill.

 

[MinisOutWest]

took my thoughts off after I thought about it, but left the last part up....

please do not yell at me, cause I just had to get that off my mind. but no matter what kind of horse it is. I still like my minis because when it comes to cleaning stalls, their little piles are fun to clean, I do not need to hire a front end loader and dump truck to clean their stalls. ha ha. Cause I did have to clean these HUGE piles when the ponies and barrel horses decided to unload right in front of my stalls... ha ha ha

 

[bingo]

I guess my own confusion with this topic is what is a mini? You can still hardship into AMHA so in reality with all the hardshipping in both registries it is simply put a pony under 38 inches or under 34 inches.

Breed means nothing. Be it Arab, Hackney, Shire, whatever if it is under 38 inches it is a mini and has every right to show in the ring and win doesnt it?

 

[Jill]

if it is under 38 inches it is a mini and has every right to show in the ring and win doesnt it?

That's my perspective as well

 

[shelia]

if it is under 38 inches it is a mini and has every right to show in the ring and win doesnt it?

That's my perspective as well

Mine too!

 

[Irish Hills Farm]

IMPO this thread IS about measuring miniatures / ponies due to an incident that happened at a show this weekend.

I personally feel that it is the JOB of the SHOW STEWARD to look for that LAST HAIR OF THE MANE and measure at that point. NOT at the end of the "trail" the owner left halfway down the mini / ponies back.

I also feel if a horse / pony can be measured in legitimately under 38", be it a quarter horse, arab, hackney, whatever, I say let it in.