What the Auctioneer said

[Cricket]

We chose to stop breeding last year. We were only breeding for 3-4 foals a year so I

don't think we were overbreeding but,I do feel we were a contributing factor just

as everyone who breeds is, whether they are breeding quality or pets. There are just too

many minis and not enougth buyers, period. After going to sales or seeing quality horses

going for next to nothing over the last year or so it breaks my heart. I know many of these

sale horses are ending up in not so good places ,because they can" afford to buy a little

horse for the back yard now." I have a gelding here now that was purchased from a sale from

a top breeder in the industry as a stallion . He is very nice but sold for 300 dollars. His

blood line alone should be worth thousands. Yes its my good fortune to have him , but his

breeders misfortune to only get minimal dollars for him. I agree with the auctioneer. If everyone

breeding would cut their breeding in half for two years I think the market would surge. It

would be a win win for everyone including breeders breeding only quality. As the market

stands right now , it is to my advantage not to spend tons of money on mare care and foaling

etc. I can go to the auction or the breeding farm and pick up a weanling for next to nothing and

have none of the sleepless nights and expenses of foaling. We realized as breeders we were

only hurting the industry. I only hope more breeders large and small will realize that what and

how many you breed affects us all. We realized that we are " Some People who breed" All of us

are the "some people who breed" . Sometimes its just hard to admit the we could possibly be

part of the problem.

This is our miniature horse industry. We all need to take

responsibility. Maryann

Good points, my feelings exactly

 

[SilverDollar]

Bravo to that auctioneer! It's basic Economics 101...supply and demand. If the equine industry does not self-regulate and stop breeding so many horses, the government will step in for them. It's happening in Los Angeles right now for dogs and cats. Breeders must have special permits to breed and no animal is allowed to remain intact. Personally I am for less government, but when people are too ignorant to get it, this is the only way they will listen.

Whether you're pro-slaughter or not, government regulation will step in for horse breeding, too. They stepped in for slaughter and they will step in for breeders. Better to "police" ourselves unless you'd rather have our inept government do it.

There are way too many horses out there, big and small. How many mini breeders are there in the country, including "backyard breeders"? If every single one of them produced one less foal, that would be a lot. Same goes for big horses.

"Be the change you want to see in the world."

Stepping down now.

 

[ckmini]

We decided to not breed for next year, and possibly the year after to focus on our young up comming horses. This will allow us to go to more shows as well.

Interesting thread.

 

[justanothercowgirl]

I have said this before, and I guess I will say this again. This problem does not just relate to the horse market, but to all animal markets. There are back yard breeders, mill breeders, and gotta get a quick buck breeders in horses,dogs,cats etc. We are flooding the market on everything.

You get a handful of breeders on one specific animal,be it horse, dog, cat,etc. More people see it, have to spend the money to own it, then decide they need to get on the band wagon and breed it. Either to "make money" or to "recoup" their expense. Or "would it not be fun to make one of our own".

The "wouldn't it be fun to make one of our own" seems to be quite popular along with teenagers who start their own "breeding programs". OH! Miniature horses seem to be the one breed where this is an affordable possibility, you sure don't see it with large equines. This category seems to be where people have little understanding of correct conformation and the "learn as you go" program begins. Then kids go off to college and horses go off to new homes and auctions.

Honestly, if you can't get a MINIMUM of $2000 on average for your weanling foals, it is not worth the risks involved to your mare and to your pocketbook! EVERY time your mare foals out you are taking the risk of losing your mare, or possibly facing a steep vet bill.

I do think that anyone who delves into breeding for sales better have a solid business plan that shows how you plan to recover costs, market and sell your product.

AGREED!!!! That is a pretty reasonable base to consider. Also a business plan is a pretty good thing to have if you are going to market a decent product.

It comes down to this:

Every single one of us needs to look at our herds and cull/cut back breedings. If you aren't showing and your stock isn't showing, then WHY are you breeding? Showing is fun and it can be a family event. But the real reason for exhibition of livestock (and yes, horses are livestock) is for evaluation of breeding stock and produce. If you are breeding, then you need to be showing. And if you aren't placing high or at least chasing those that are, then you need to re-evaluate your stock.

And this is what breeders need to do. GELD colts.

Another pet peeve is research. You need to understand equine conformation inside and out.

Ok, off my soap box.

I am like a really odd duck in the miniature world since I DON'T have a breeding program, I only show. I have two geldings and sometimes show some of my familie's horses. What does that say about our industry that I would be odd that I don't breed? No other breed has so MANY breeders!!!

Pam

 

[barnbum]

If you aren't showing and your stock isn't showing, then WHY are you breeding?

I started a reply to speak to this quote earlier today, then erased it. I've pondered it all day.

I respectfully disagree. I breed, but have decided to only have 2 foals every other year so I always have things under control. I want plenty of time to find perfect homes, and I want plenty of room in case someone doesn't sell. I thought 2 foals every other year was easier than 1 foal every year, for the foals' companionship anyway.

I sold one 2007 filly in 2 weeks, and could have sold her many times after that. The 2nd filly is being purchased by the same family who bought the first one. They show. Not at big time shows, not necessarily "fun" shows, but they do show.

Breeders who show don't have 100% offspring who are worthy of earning ribbons in a show. The percentage of those who will win at the big year end shows is small. So, what happens to those foals? Why is that situation any different than a "backyard" breeder who doesn't show, but sells to those who do, or who sells to families for pet situations, with buy back clauses?

I think a blanket statement asking all who breed to cut back a bit, is certainly more realistic and doable, than saying those who show should be the only ones breeding.

Some have found their best horses from the barns of "backyard" breeders; one should be cautious in assuming the quality of horses of those who don't choose to spend mega bucks and time showing, is inferior to those who do.

My humblest of opinion.

 

[Buckskin gal]

I am a person who sees too many miniature horses used for breeding and believe far too many horses are being produced. It breaks my heart, at times, to see many poor quality minis being produced, some are doing it to get that one special one for showng, others are doing it to make a few bucks and I am sure there are other reasons. I know I can't cvontrol what others do and even though we may try and educate the uninformed, too many animals will be produced that won't end up in good homes. We are not big breeders but must admit we do contibute to the population, even if it is only one or two a year. I feel we have some very nice horses and some great bloodlines to work with but no way will we do a lot of breedings because we do see the overpopulation. Foals are fun...no denying it and I don't even mind the nights I have to spend in watching a mare that is close to foaaling...if it was a problem I wouldn't even do one breeding!! We will be having one foal this year that we plan on keeping....I so want to have this foal. I too believe that a person does not have to be running around showing their horses in order to know a good or even a great horse ...striving for the best can be done with one breeding as well as doing 50 breedings. I like to go to shows to watch but will have to say there isn't a whole lot of shows in our area. There are other ways of knowing what a good horse is and I know what I like in a horse so I don't need to have a judge tell me what they like, to feel good about my horses. Unfortunately, a judge only has a few miniutes to look over the horses and can easily miss faults...been there and seen it done! [Not saying there aren't good judges.] Hubby does like to do a little showing locally and has gone over other minis that have won at a National level. Anyway, I too believe breedigs should be very limited and thoughtfully planned for ones own program. I think the days of every mini bringing thousands of dollars has cometo an end for many people. I am very much against the slaughter of horses, as it was, and hope that those who now are affected by the banning will stop and think of better ways to handle the whole mess that has been made. I don't want to see or hear about abuse to animals and anyone else that doesn't like to see or hear of it needs to think about how they can help stop it......fewer horses produced will mean fewer that will stand the chance to be abused. JMHO Mary

 

[Jill]

It comes down to this:

Every single one of us needs to look at our herds and cull/cut back breedings. If you aren't showing and your stock isn't showing, then WHY are you breeding?

I agree with a lot of what you've said, and especially the above. I know that if I started breeding before I started showing, the quality would not have been where I feel it should be now. My breeding and show stock is far superior to what I had even 5 years ago.

Too many breeders who do not show are also the ones unable to take an honest, educated look at their breeding stock.

There are some people here who don't show and I consider an exception to this statement based on what I think I see in their programs. However, many out there breeding and not showing are swayed by the nice personalities in their animals, the cute faces, and neat colors, and other similar qualities. For my breeding horses, those things alone are not enough, but maybe would have been before I showed and learned (and continue to learn daily).

 

[LGahr]

This is one of the most informative and relavent posts I have seen on the forum. I am feeling like an outsider--a newbie--don't quite fit in. Not that I do not love horses in general. It is almost fifty years I have had the need to have them close to me. Age and physical limitations have helped me to gravatate to the miniature.

In the last couple of years I have been involved I have acquired six of the most delightful horses around.

All are wonderfully trained, easy to handled, loved to death and just pure pleasure. The are all geldings

but ONE. That one is a very quiet and beautiful stud who shows absolutely no aggression to anyone so for

now he is still a stud.

I have four lovely geldings all in their early years of prime performance that are quiet and capable driving horses. I was recently able to purchase not one but two practically perfect little guys at an unbelieveable price because the owner was in dire need of changing locations and had little option. This owner has lovely, well bred, professionally trained horses but life does get complicated.

Having my own agenda and life experiences has given me my own ideas of what I want and need and I only purchase horses I am in love with. Do I get guff for my "herd" of geldings??? You bet I do. When you look at the dollars I am so far ahead of the game it is the only answer.

Six kids can come visit. Six kids can have a special friend to bond with. I can enjoy my herd in ways that most people can't and I probably have less than the price of one good mare in all of them. In all my many years of owning horses I find it has always been heart wrenching to breed and then part with horses for everyone involved IF you have a good one. If you don't have a good one that is just as hard.....you don't need it and no one wants it.

Too many think they will make an easy buck and get a big tax write off. They forget the emotion attached to these wonderful creatures. Most everyone out there knows the answer.....some want to admit it....some want to comment other peoples breeding program or stock. I hope I am not sounding like a carpet bagger or horse thief because my horses are all handled and cared for and much appreciated for who they are. Not one of them is or probably ever will be for sale. I call them the Boys' Club and enjoy them every spare minute I have every day of the world.

I don't go to horse sales any more because the number of minis around here running through the auction breaks my heart and I can't afford to bring them home. In Ohio the market is just down the drain......it would be fun to show but I am not in a position to spend 3 to 5 hundred a weekend so we just enjoy who we have and help with a local 4H club and enjoy life. My heart goes out to you breeders. I can't do it.

More people should think about relaxing and enjoying what they have instead of risking the heart ache. OK....old granny has had her say. Best of luck to all of you.

 

[justanothercowgirl]

I agree with a lot of what you've said, and especially the above. I know that if I started breeding before I started showing, the quality would not have been where I feel it should be now. My breeding and show stock is far superior to what I had even 5 years ago.

Too many breeders who do not show are also the ones unable to take an honest, educated look at their breeding stock.

There are some people here who don't show and I consider an exception to this statement based on what I think I see in their programs. However, many out there breeding and not showing are swayed by the nice personalities in their animals, the cute faces, and neat colors, and other similar qualities. For my breeding horses, those things alone are not enough, but maybe would have been before I showed and learned (and continue to learn daily).

You have hit the nail on the head! While you don't necessarily have to show to educate yourself on conformation and what makes a quality horse it does indeed help.

There are thousands of minis with personalities, cute faces, neat colors, those qualities you mention, if THAT is what someone is wanting in their horses for heaven sakes go and BUY the ones that already exist and enjoy them as PETS! As Jill has said, for breeding horses those things alone are not enough.