What Would You Do ...

[dtdminis]

I came across this web site the other day... Dare To Dream Miniature Horse Farm. My farm name is also Dare To Dream Miniature Horse Farm. I have been in business since 1995, and I registered both of my farm prefixes (Dare To Dream & DTD) with the AMHA and the AMHR. These folks say they bought their 1st mini 3 years ago. Much of their stock is unregistered and to be quite frank, not of the same quality as mine.

I wrote a pleasant, tactful email to them ... but have had no response.

I am upset - I thought long and hard about what to name my farm. It embodies the spirit of my endeavor. Do I have the right to be upset?? Do I have the right to ask them to change their Farm Name? Do I have any rights at all???

They have a Horse & Tack Auction under the name of LewisLivestock - advertising auctioning Miniatures. Why not use that for their minis web site too?? I don't want people going to that web site thinking it's ME & MY farm!!

Any input would be appreciated!

Thanks.

Nancy

 

[Jill]

I can sympathize as I also would be upset if another miniature farm was using the name "Whinny For Me Farm", especially if they were breeding and advertising grade horses.

Like you, I have registered my prefix with both A & R. I think that's pretty much ALL we can do. I don't think we can stop someone from using the same farm name as we do... I think even corporations can have the same names if incorporated in other states because there is a corporation (at least one other one) with same business name as the company I own (Investment & Tax Strategies, Inc. -- "my day job").

Sorry... I guess I don't have any advice but think I can understand how you must feel

Thank goodness you already locked up the prefix.

 

[Miniv]

Obviously, the other farm shouldn't be able to register any foals with your farm name with either of the registries, as long as you have reserved your name with them. Each registry charges a fee for this.

However, this doesn't stop them from having the same farm name within your state, UNLESS you file your farm name WITH the state as a "dba".

You can get the application form from any bank, especially if you apply for a ranch bank account with them. Our state charges us according to how many counties we want to register our "dba" with.

Once you are listed with the state and county(s), that other farm won't be able to do business under that same name.

I'd do it ASAP, incase they are deciding to list the farm name as a business for themselves.

MA

 

[Jill]

MA --

I could be wrong, which has happened once or twice before :bgrin

: but I think the filing of a DBA only keeps someone in your state from using the same DBA in your state...... I think this because i have the one corporate name but actually use a DBA vs. the corporate name (Senior Resources), and that name is being used in other states besides in VA where it's "mine".

What I'm thinking is the only way to make it for you and only you is to register it as a trademark (???), but I am only guessing that this makes it only for your own use.

Jill

 

[dtdminis]

Thanks Jill - Empathy helps!!!

Obviously, the other farm shouldn't be able to register any foals with your farm name with either of the registries, as long as you have reserved your name with them. Each registry charges a fee for this.

However, this doesn't stop them from having the same farm name within your state, UNLESS you file your farm name WITH the state as a "dba".

You can get the application form from any bank, especially if you apply for a ranch bank account with them. Our state charges us according to how many counties we want to register our "dba" with.

Once you are listed with the state and county(s), that other farm won't be able to do business under that same name.

I'd do it ASAP, incase they are deciding to list the farm name as a business for themselves.

MA

Thanks MA ... I knew they couldn't use my registered prefixes.

Does having a DBA count if they are in another state? I'm in NY & they are in GA.

Thanks,

Nan

Ha ha ... typing at the same time u were, Jill!

 

[NyborFarm]

You can get a trade name done with your state. Its not that expensive, for New Hampshire it is $50 to get a tradename and it lasts about 5 years before it needs to get renewed. I went through the state of New Hampshire website to get mine done. It took maybe 2 weeks to get it completed.

As for getting a national trandmark, Im not sure how to go about that. Im sure there is a website(s) that can help.

Good luck!

~Megan

 

[Ashley]

Actually I am going to be different. No I dont feel you have the right to ask them to change there farm name, or be angery.

Obviously if you have it reserved they cant registure stock under it. There are billions of people out there, millions of farms. Chances are you will also have people with the same farm name.

I guess my opionion is if your farm is know and people know you there going to be able to tell whats yours and somebody elses.

And just because they may not have the best pics and unregistured stock doesnt make them poor quality either.

I am also pretty sure when they see there contact info, they are going to realize it isnt you.

 

[Shari]

Sorry you have to go through that but you are not alone.

The time we were moving to this farm, I notice I was not getting my normal sales of Roving and Yarn.

Did a search and guess what... Someone had copied our site..right down to the color of the page and our Farm name. They were also selling sheep, wool, roving and yarn. Was Someone that I sold sheep to awhile back.. liked what I had going so much...they out right stole my whole set up.

People knew I was moving so thought this person was helping out. Not so. Email the offender and basicly was told..in not so nice words.. tough <-----> insert words here.

Short of taking them to court in another state..which I could not afford to do...I was SOL. This was wrong on so many levels. I have generations of Sheep and a few mini horses with my old Farm name.

Someone to buy animals from you and then steal your life. :ugh:

:

:

Maybe those folks did not know what they did.. have you talked with them? Maybe they will be the honest sort. Unlike the people that did that to me.

 

[Leeana]

Hmm i dont know what to tell you.

The lady we got Narko from (Karen Wales) farm name is Westwind Miniatures and there is anothe farm in Michigan called Westwind Miniatures. So karen if you see her adds in The Journal puts 'The Original Westwind Miniatures'. I think she also puts Red Oak Westwind infront of the farm name on registation papers actually.

I'd be upset too. Atleast they cannot put anything in AMHA and AMHR w/ your prefixes or farm name.

Goodluck!!

 

[Lauralee]

Sorry NAN but first of all I don't think you are being fair.

The owner of that farm is not here to defend themselves.

Making derogatory comments about the quality of their stock is not nice. They actually DO have majority of registered stock, and many of their stock carries popular bloodlines.

And if you think that the name Dare to Dream is your original creation, you are wrong.

Do a search and you'll see that there are numerous farms, businesses, organizations, books, songs, albums, and movies that have the name Dare To Dream. An lots of them date back before 1995. So how would you feel if YANNI (for example) attacked you publicly for using the name of HIS 1992 release, of the same title?

I think you're making more out of this than there really is.

 

[Steph G]

Just thought I'd ad that there are also two farms called Ramblin Rose Ranch in two different states. One calls themselves the "original" like Leeana mentioned someone else doing. I guess that's really all you can do.

 

[lilhorseladie]

I have seen lots of farm names that are the same Heartland Miniatures is one...there are a couple of them! I would be disappointed if someone also had my name because I thought hard and long about what I wanted, but I think it would be hard to ask someone else to change once they are set up and there isn't a legal obligation for them to do so. I would be angry if they knowingly did it though!

 

[Minimor]

It's not uncommon to have two farms with the same name. Usually it's completely unintentional--someone in a different state has never heard of the "original" farm and just chooses a name they like. I know in the Morgan world there were duplications. One farm I remember seeing--and I can't even remember what the farm name was now--had a farm name that was also someone else's farm name and registered prefix. They continued to use that same name, but had a different prefix and said XXXX Farm, home of YYYYY Morgans.

We've always been Cedar Plains--that's a carry over from our Morgan days. As it turned out, Cedar Plains wasn't in use by anyone else (as far as I know--there could be a stable called that somewhere, but it wasn't "taken" as a prefix so I have registered it with AMHR). Had that prefix not been available, we would have still been Cedar Plains, but we would have advertised as "CEDAR PLAINS -- Home of Cottonwoods Miniatures" and registered Cottonwoods as our prefix (as an example, I have no idea if Cottonwoods is taken or not).

Justamere Farms Inc. was incorporated as a beef cattle/Percheron operation. When they went into Morgans they tried to use Justamere as their prefix. The registry denied it because someone else had already registered the prefix "Justemere". The owners of Justamere Farms Inc. took it to court & because they were incorporated they won the right to use the prefix Justamere, in spite of the fact that it sounded exactly the same as "Justemere". Both farms carried on breeding Morgans under their very similar names.

I don't think there's much that can be done to force someone to stop using "your" farm name.

 

[dtdminis]

Thank you for ALL of your opinions and advice - whether you agreed with/understood my feelings or not. It is TRULY appreciated.

I know that I did not coin the phrase "dare to dream". I guess I just put so much into thinking up a name that would fit me and my fairly unusual objectives and accomplishments, took a lot of time researching the availability of that name in the miniature horse world, and then did the best I could, physically and financially, to promote my stallion and farm. (All of you small farm owners understand the financial side of promotiion!).

I didn't mean to be derogatoryor stuck up and snobby ... I apologize. It's just that I have been very, very slowly trying to breed National quality, double registered miniature horses. I'm a small, small farm - in fact, for the last few years I've only had 2 brood mares! I have tried hard for so many years to practice "quality versus quantity" and I want people to know that ... I'm proud of that! In my mind that matters a lot ... especially when strangers can go to the other farm's site where they are breeding unregistered "grade" minis (even if they do have some registered stock or recognized names in their pedigree) and auctioning them off! I don't want people thinking that I operate like that ...

Just coming across their web site like that really took me by surprise ... I may be silly, and/or super sensitive, but it made me feel like my individuality as a miniature horse farm had been violated. I'm not LKF, I'm not Windflight, I'm not Alliance or any other "big farm" name. But IMHO, "my" name should be as unique to my miniature horse farm as the big mini farm names are to theirs. I bet there'd be a stink if any other mini horse farm called itself Little King Farm!

BTW ... I did write a tactful email explaining who I am and asking that they contact me. That was the FIRST thing I did - a month ago! I thought that was the right thing to do. I have received had response.

I even tried tp put myself in "their shoes" and thought about what I'd do if someone from the mini horse world contacted me and proved they had been in existance longer than I had ... I'd either think up a similar (not identical) name or choose a whole new one. I don't want to be a copycat! Plus, they are already doing livestock business under another name .... why not continue using that name?

Hopefully (as Lauralee pointed out) people will remember Armando and associate my name and farm with him - and, if they stumble upon the wrong site, they will be astute enough to know which farm is which

Anyway, thank you all again for your insight. It is very helpful to get other peoples input when dealing with emotional issue. As I said to Jill above, empathy and understanding why I feel the way I do goes a long way!

Take care everyone,

Nan

 

[Miniv]

Yes, Jill is correct about the DBA. It's only good for the state you are living in. But, I feel it's important to do.

Once you've done that.....and you said you have protected your prefix with the registries, the only other avenue is to file your farm name as Trademark. I don't know what that covers or how much it costs.

I think it's up to you how much you want to pursue it.

Back in 1990, we established our farm name -- Miniature Ventures. We reserved our prefix with both AMHA and AMHR at that time. We also filed our DBA with the state of Oregon about a year later when we decided we were definitely going to be a breeding miniature horse farm/ranch.

By then, we had learned that there were two women in California that were also calling themselves "Miniature Ventures". We didn't do a thing because apparently they contacted AMHA about registering their foals and discovered we had already reserved a prefix under the name.

Have no idea what happened after that........They either changed their name or are no longer into minis.

MA

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

I am with Lauralee and Ashely on this one there are TONS of farms out there with the same name especially when you start throwing in all the different breeds and such.

It is frustrating that part I understand but not much you can do other then what you did regsiter the prefix

 

[Neil]

Just thought I'd ad that there are also two farms called Ramblin Rose Ranch in two different states. One calls themselves the "original" like Leeana mentioned someone else doing. I guess that's really all you can do.

Interestingly, the one in the east seems to be breeding under the prefix "Only" where the one in the west near me breeds under the prefix "Ramblin". The one near me, Joyce and the late Bill Putman, got their first mini about 20 years ago.

 

[vvf]

Our farm name is Valley View.

I know of a farm with the same name that raises registered cattle, and I think there is a Bed & Breakfast out there with the name.

But a few years ago I noticed another Miniature horse breeder using the same name.

Does it bug me?, Yes, at first it did. But not anymore because they cannot use that name to register their horses, as we have had it reserved in both registries for years.

We are in South Dakota and they are in another state.

So sometimes when I advertise a horse, I will list it as Valley View Farm of South Dakota.

I figure we have been raising Miniature horses for 28 years and God willing we will be still raising them for many more years to come.

And who knows if the other farm will still be around.

 

[Dontworrybeappy]

We have a major street 1 block away called "Valley View" - I assume there are one or two places on that street called "Valley View" something or another!

:

When we did sheep I had someone steal my custom-made logo and part of my name - he refused to do anything about it, fortunately at the time my husband was in contact with the FBI for some reason and asked the agent he knew... who learned the thief was a minor and put in a call to his PARENTS. That seemed to solve the situation! But stealing a copyrighted logo is different from using a common phrase. You can't do much about that, unfortunately. :no:

There was another "Cornerstone Arabians", but not much I could do about it even though we were around before them (and after!) - and another cornerstone stable here in Norco (also started years after us) - makes me glad we decided to preface our farm name with "KpM"!

 

[Debby - LB]

Hi Nancy I'm sure sorry you got your feelings hurt, I was afraid of that.

This woman is a client of mine and I told her there was already a Dare to Dream Miniatures.

She spent quite a bit of time picking her name too so wanted to use it and since it was available there was no reason she could not. You did not procure the name, which is very easy to do.

I did start to email you but decided not to. I did look and you always just used dtdminis and your site didn’t work plus at the time you were trying to sell and I thought going out of business. This site has been up a year and a half.

I felt I can’t do business if I second guess my clients, advising them is all I can do, having someone call or email a client or potential client saying I told them that you are planning on using my name is not good business practice. I can’t search through all the sites listed in the registries or tell people they can’t use available domain names.

I do have to say it was originally a site I turned down, ML knows that I spoke with her about it.

I also have a client named Lil Hoofs and I also told her there is already a Lil Hoofs Miniature Horse farm.

There’s way more Crooked Creek ranchs, several Double T’s…..there is another Fox Hollow (Holler) a Rocky Creek…I could go on and on.

AND looky here… I am Ramblin Rose Ranch. When I chose that name I then researched it and found NO evidence of it being used for a miniature horse farm except for years and years ago spelled with a G and no longer in business, which I though was odd at the time since it’s a fairly common name. The only Web site up was a big horse ranch in California which spelled it with a “g” and another big horse farm with an obscure geocities address.

I also called AMHA and spoke to them, there was no prefix other than Ramblin being used so I chose it, bought it and I promoted it.

Several months later….almost a year, I was shocked to learn about the Putmans AND to learn how influential Bill had been in AMHA, the AMHA office should have told me this.

I was very thankful to Beth for emailing me and telling me.

I did email them and when I got no answer called them on the phone. I spoke to a very nice lady who told me not to worry about it. For that reason I have never used the “ramblin rose” prefix although I do own it.

I have since that day used ‘Bowens’ Ramblin Rose Miniature Horse Ranch in my logo or simply Ramblin Rose.

There are many, many Ramblin Rose Ranches, there are several in this state alone, one an Alpaca farm, one goat farm and there is also an Angus farm in North Ga.….I really ended up with an original one didn’t I?

I bought the prefix Bowens RRR and planned to use it. Because of how hard it was to listen at the shows to the announcer saying Bowens RRR which usually they said Bowens Triple R… I changed my prefix to “Only” which was my registered name for over 25 years with the big horses……should have just kept it to start with yes?

People please when you start a breeding or showing program PAY to reserve your prefix with the registries AND Buy your domain name and the .net and .biz extensions of it, you love the name so someone else might too…and if it’s available they will use it.

edited for spelling, if I missed any excsue it (pun intended)