Who do you prefer better overall, and WHY?

[Leeana]

Ditto because i own his brother

. Well i guess i am slightly bias lol

I am a huge fan of that bloodline (obviously lol) and i like how smooth his body is. I think he is a great stallion, did i ever tell you what Karen called him? I was talking with Karin W a while back and i brought up that someone i knew purchased a Charlie (Boones Little BTU crown prince) son and i mentioned Dittos name, i guess she called him Teddy

. Its cute, deffently fits him as he looks like a teddy bear

.

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

Ok, I know you asked for specifics on why we like the one we do but I don't know if I can give you the detail you want. Some of this is just a "feeling" I get for me. But I'll try.

I prefer the first stallion. I find his head to be gorgeous, by far one of the nicer heads I've seen in a while!

I found his neck to be pleasing in some of the pics and not so much in others, so that was sort of a toss-up for me. I really like how sound and strong his hip/butt/croup look to me. His shoulder looks a bit weak to me, but almost every mini I look at seems that way so it may just be me.

The second stallion has a head that is a tad longer than I like and to me his shoulder looks much weaker than I'd like. BUT, it's hard to say for sure since he's only a yearling. So much could change by the time eh's mature.

In general, I think both boys are somewhat similar in body type. Hope this helps. I'm far from an expert!

 

[SHANA]

Mona if you can't decide which to keep, keep them both. You have enough mares and you can always buy more mares but good stallions are hard to come by. I have 2 beautiful boys here. Both will be A/R registered as soon as I get the money together to get AMHR papers on the 2 year old. The other colt we have is a yearling and if he doesn't sell we plan to geld him this winter and give him to my niece Maika. My nephew, Andrew already has a gelding, Sanka.

 

[Buckskin gal]

Although I have always loved the pictures of Royalty I have to say with seeing Ditto, I like him better. Ditto is really, overall, very pleasing to the eye with balance and pretty head! I would still like to have Royalty here for driving but can't afford him. And Dittos breeding is something I really like also. Mary

 

[Dona]

Both have more pluses than minuses. And they are both handsome stallions in different ways.

 

[Mona]

OK, thank you again, but now I have a few questions. I am trying to really absorb everything, but as I said, I too am still learning correct conformation terms etc. Can you please try to explain to me in detail, what these terms really mean?

"big hip"

"nice hip"

"weak shoulder"

"straight shoulder"

You see, this is where I am mixed up. When I look at a horse, what I personally LOVE to see is a flat croup with high tailset. By that, and as an example, I am referring to how Ditto looks in this photo. This is not natural, he is all "puffed up" over the girls on the other side of the fence, but I LOVE this look! (right or wrong, but I do like it!) See how high his tailset looks, and how flat on top of his rump(what you guys are referring to as his hip?) looks??

Now here, this is more his "natural" look (that's why I chose it to use as the main pic, so it would not be so misleading, as much as I do love the other one) when not excited, and I really like the look of the above one better. Yet most seem to be saying it is a good thing?

Then with Royalty, his is kind of between the two pics of Ditto...his is just kind of nicely rounded naturally, whereas Ditto's seems to have more of a drop-off?? So I liked Royaly's better, but I feel I am alone on that one, and not understanding why. Can you help me to understand?

This is neat the way everyone is seeing fifferent things than another person sees, when everyone is looking at all the same pics.

 

[disneyhorse]

Mona... I actually didn't see the responses and don't have an opinion... but you can't really COMPARE these two stallions as breeding prospects until the younger one matures a lot. I don't know how much thicker that yearling will get.

That said, I wanted to maybe explain what MY interpretation of the terms as you asked:

"big hip"

"nice hip"

"weak shoulder"

"straight shoulder"

The "hip" can have a couple evaluations. One from the back/top, and one from the side (the angle we most often critique).

A "big" or "nice" hip generally refers to the depth of it from the side. Imagine the section between the hip bone that sticks out, the point of the butt (where you'd go to get a blanket measurement) and kinda down towards the stifle. I look at it, personally, as that TRIANGLE but most people simply use the hip bone and that back "butt bone" to cut the horse up... they will slice the horses' shoulders, barrel, and then hip into those thirds. If the hip is "weak" it will be shallow from the hip bone to the butt bone. Think of those horses with little rumps with a goosey tailset... no hip, a weak hip. Quarter horses have a huge hip, that's their trademark. Some people can't SEE these angles and sort of have a weird perspective... so you have to figure out your OWN perspective and what YOU measure from, to COMPARE to OTHER horses the SAME way CONSISTENTLY.

Anyway, the hip can also be viewed from the top and back... some of them have an "apple butt" where the butt has a dip along the spine when viewed from the back. This is common in the QHs. Some have a "T" shape, where the hip is straight across when viewed from the back. Some have a peaked hip from behind, that's no good... but we can't see these "shapes" from pictures unless rear views are posted.

The shoulder is another misunderstood area. Sometimes the slope of a shoulder is hard to see in pictures, depending on the weight of the horse and shadows, ect. Generally the slope is the flat face that goes from just above the point of the shoulder up to just in front of the withers. Because I come from draft horse background, I imagine where the collar would sit (full draft collar). The collar rests along that slight "face" on the front of the shoulder in a well-defined shoulder. The angle should be sloped back, and you want a LONG slope. The shoulder blade, if the angle is more up-and-down, will be more narrow (remember those thirds you cut the horse into? It will become a "weak" third of the shoulder then). A horse with an upright shoulder (straight shoulder) won't be able to get a lot of extension in front, as the horse can't flex and reach forward as easily.

I hope this sort of makes any sense???

Andrea

Okay I went and looked at the photos on your website... I definitely think Ditto is the nicer horse. I think his weakest fault is his very thick "stallion" neck, but overall he's put together nicely and has a lot of presence. He's more QH type for sure.

The yearling is not put together as nice when you pick him apart piece by piece, and who knows how he will mature? I think he will mature at LEAST as thick as Ditto, if not more so.

Andrea

 

[MiLo Minis]

Everyone prefers the look of a stallion all puffed up like when he's talking to the girls and that is why everyone likes that flat croup look BUT if they stood like that naturally, which is what it seems like a lot of people are breeding for, their pelvis would be so badly tilted they would be out behind and unable to get their legs under themselves to move properly. That round croup with the tail nicely rounding off is GOOD CORRECT conformation.

 

[Buckskin gal]

I think Andrea gave a real nice explaination. I wanted to add this skeleton of a horse so that someone can show Mona on it just waht they are speaking of also...I just see it easier on the skeleton picture and maybe Mona will also. Mary

 

[skanzler]

Ditto is too heavy in the front end. He ties in too low in the chest. He has a very pretty head with a short muzzle. His eye cage is nice and broad. His throat latch is a little on the heavy side, this could also be due to is age and the fact that he has stallion jowls. His legs are a set a little too far forward of the wither, which makes him look heavy on the forehand. Hiis back is nice and short, but he has a weak hip, that is why his tail look like it is set in low. HIs canon bones are too short and this sets him again heavy on the front end.

 

[horsehug]

Mona,

I absolutely LOVE Ditto!!

He looks so masculine and strong and has the head and eye that I love!

To me he has just the right substance that I prefer over ultra heavy boned or ultra fine boned.

Susan O.

 

[Miniv]

Okay Mona.......I'm following your advice and just looking.

At first glance, without reading anything, my eye was drawn to the yearling because of the length of leg and his petite head and longer neck.

Then, I looked again. I like your older boy's head too, but it's more of a pony head. Your older boy's body is more balanced, if you minus out his shorter legs - and shorter neck.

The yearling has no slope to his shoulder and is very weak in the shoulder compared to his hip, but he has a strong hind end and a better tailset, plus the longer leg.

I would say you almost have a draw......Find mares to balance each of your boy's flaws and then cross those offspring and you may have a winner!

You gave us a hard pair of stallions to compare, Mona. They each have some different strengths and flaws!

MA

 

[sedeh]

I'm definately no expert in conformation! I just know what I like. I did what you asked and am actually writing this without looking at the other responses. They're both nice boys. You know what you have in your mature stallion.....the yearling will be a question mark until he's mature. Of the 2 I prefer Ditto. Though when I look at his pics his front end seems heavy to me. I love his head, back and hip....and his color! He just has a more impressive look. Royalty is cute, but a bit longer in the back than I like.

 

[Jesper]

Thats a tough one to answer and I am far from an expert.

Ditto got the age with him, he has a nice size, looks great, has a wonderful head and very nice conformation. If I were to buy him then yes I would buy him without doubt.

Royalty got the age against him, 33" at 1 yr might go higher then I like (and above AMHA) but note that I did not look at their registrations at all so that might not be an issue for you. He too got a very nice head and nice conformation, but he lacks what a few years of age could bring.

So overall, with Ditto you know what you got, with Royalty you wont know 100% what you get and it would be a bet, you could win this bet big time or you could lose on it.

Overall I like Ditto the best, so if you chose against him, then I know someone that would love him

Jesper

 

[Danielle_E.]

Okay, here is my two cents worth, so take it with a grain of salt

. Oh and if you want to get rid of either or you know where you can send either or

. Not having seen the mares you plan to breed them to is for me first and foremost difficult. Being that I have other breeds, when we look at a stallion, you must first look at the mares you plan on breeding a stallion to and see what the two combined can produce. Is the mare weak in one area where the stallion is strong and so forth. Being that Ditto is older, does he have foals already on the ground and if so what was produced. Did you like what he produced and what were the mares like. I find it interesting in minis that the "total package", stallion and mare aren't given the same importance, which in my humble opinion they sure as heck should. What I like about Ditto - he has a beautiful face and I find him overall quite proportionate. His neck is a tad thick BUT I find that MOST stallions of that age and older and depending on the weight they are carrying have this. When you look at a youngster like Royalty of course you don't expect to see a thick neck because of their age and the fact they haven't matured yet and they aren't carrying their "adult" weight yet. I like Royalty's face but not as much as Ditto and I find his back long. Now this could be the picture deceiving my eye in this. Now I LOVE

Royalty's expressive motion. If you are going to be breeding for performance horses I would lean toward Royalty. Mona, they each have their strong points, no stallion is ever perfect. We see many that take our breath away in magazines, etc. but you have to remember that the pictures were done by a professional, that those horses have been conditioned to the nines AND they have enough makeup on to sink a ship in many instances. Your horses are portrayed as we say in french "au naturel" and both are extremely nice stallions. I say evaluate on a "total package" based on the mares that you have or the type of mare you may want to purchase in the future. Cheers. Oh and don't forget, the offer stands. Ditto, Royalty, you can come to my house anyday boys

 

[capall beag]

I would have to say 2 very nice boys! Because in each picture they look good IMO.

That said I prefer Ditto. I think he has better balance. He is a muscular boy and not overly refined but certainly not rugged IMO.

I think Royalty is very pretty and he is only a yearling but in every picture I thought his back looked long. I kept thinking the next picture would show something different but it didn't really.

I don't think Royalty looks as well balanced BUT he may be in a year or two.

If you have the space I would keep both. You might regret selling Royalty if he stays under!...or even if he doesn't! Royalty moves beautifully.

 

[tifflunn]

Royalty

 

[willowoodstables]

Mona,

I did exactly what you said, I read NO replies before posting my own.

I truly prefer the yearling. He has a wonderful "hook" to his neck and it ties in high in his shoulder. He has a slight dipped back with IMHO makes for a better headset/neck carriage in a driving horse. His head is prettier and I like his length of leg as well, but them I am partial to horses built for driving.

I also wanted to let you know I really like this colt. When you had him for sale I kept coming back. If he was a coming 3 yr old he's like Eastern Ontario just fine!

Kim

ETA:

I also wanted to express again the "dip" back. A truly flat croup does hinder motion, the horse must engage his rear under him to propel himself forward. He needs a slope. The dippy back makes the horse more elastic. He can get his head up, legs under and drive without a struggle. Not a LOW back, just some give to it.

Although this pony is "parked" out, here is an example of a pony that could "mount" up and wear a harness. His shoulder "appears" straight..nope. See pic in harness. I see this in Royalty, as he shows it in almost ever picture. So by judging the pony below, can any one guess WHY I like Royalty

Here he is in harness (just when the flash went he really mounted up and dropped his back..too much!)

 

[Mona]

I would say you almost have a draw......Find mares to balance each of your boy's flaws and then cross those offspring and you may have a winner!

You gave us a hard pair of stallions to compare, Mona. They each have some different strengths and flaws!

MA

TELL ME ABOUT IT!!! That is why I finally drummed up the nerve to post them here asking for opinions. I see good and bad in both, and I cannot decide which one is the better, "overall" package! OH!

Thanks again to all those that have offered their opinions thus far.

 

[Mona]

OK, I guess I will write down here, what "I" see when I look at them in the pasture.

First off, BOTH have FABULOUS temperaments, are very friendly and easy to handle. So both are equal or VERY close in that aspect.

Head - Again, I like both their heads. Ditto has a more "masculine" head, but yet it is still pleasing to the eye. It is not too plain, nor too extreme, and I LOVE his rounded jowls that probably don't show real well in the pics where he is wearing a halter, but that was one thing that really drew my attention to him when I was considering buying. I find too many minis appear too "straight" in that area.

Royalty's head is shaped differently when viewed from the side, and again, I like it. I personally feel that Royalty has a "prettier", less masculine head, but that may change with maturity. I feel Royality, of the 2, has the shorter face,(eye to nose length) which I do like better.

Both have good bites, and both have have nice ears. I also like the eyes of both...they are different than each other, and both are kind eyes, but I think I like Royalty's better...they just seem more expressive and maybe a little bigger.

Neck - I would personally like to see a bit longer more refined neck on BOTH horses, as well as a more refined throatlatch area.

Topline/Tailset etc. - I find that BOTH are also longer in body that I like, as far as leg length/body length ratio goes. I like Ditto's topline better but like Royalty's croup/hip and tailset better.

Legs - Both have very nice legs. Royalty is very slightly cow hocked, but I do mean SLIGHTLY. I think he is lighter boned than Ditto, but again, this is likely attributed to his age.

Overall, Royalty just looks more "elegant" and Ditto a little heavier set, and overall, I prefer Ditto's height to Royalty. Royalty excels in movement, between the two.

So you see, this is why I am having a hard time. I personally feel they are both of a nice enough quality for me to use as my stallion, and I also feel if they were conditioned well and presented well, they would do well enough in a show ring, but I do not "condition" or excersise my horses...what you see here is their natural pasture condition.