Would you do this?

[MajorClementine]

I was wondering if anyone would consider exchanging a foal for a breeding to a desired stud? As in the stud covers 2 of your mares and then the owner of the stud gets one of the foals. Would you (having the mare) want first pick or would it go to the owner of the stud? Would you even consider doing this? Would you do it if you were the stud owner? Just saw an add for this type of deal and wondered if it was done a lot in the mini world what. Thanks.

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

Well, I don't know how often it's done, but I might consider it under the right circumstances. And I think from either side it could be interesting. Of course there are always risks to both the mare and the stallion so both owners are risking the loss of an animal, but that's with any breeding scenario. But if I had a nice stallion and wanted to add some new blood but didn't want to outright buy another mare at this time, I might see if someone with a really nice mare that I thought would make a good pairing would be interested. LIkewise, if I had two mares and wanted to bring in some outside blood without buying or leasing the stallion (or paying a stud fee) I might consider it. For me it would all go back to weighing the risks vs the benefits and if I thought the pairings would produce better than either of the parents.

Sometimes it's good to get creative!

 

[MindyLee]

I have a friend who has a very nice little stud who has been BEGGING me for 2 yrs now to free lease my mare who she really admires. She wants to breed my mare to her boy, keep the foal and in exchange, send her back to me bred to him. It sounds like a really good deal, but defently dont need another horse. So I may just free lease her to her anyway in the future. She already agrees to take all bills on and insure her as well.

So I would say if it benefits you or if you totally trust this person, I might work out to the good for ya in the long run.

just be careful!

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

We had a deal with a friend that we would breed our stallion to her mare, foal her out and send her back bred and keep the foal. The mare spent four years here, never did get pregnant. Oh, well, it's a great friend and we didn't mind keeping the mare, so no big deal really. But if it's a client it could get sticky if the mare doesn't catch and carry to term twice!

We also did the breed to two mares and keep one foal with an elderly gentleman. The first year only one mare caught and the foal didn't survive. The second year both mares caught, we foaled out both mares and had two live foals. I ended up buying the one mare because I liked her so much....

So that did work out.

Make SURE you have an ironclad contract!

 

[bluerogue]

I've thought about doing this, as well. I have a friend who wants a foal out of one of my mares, but we figure we'd just trade foals of the same sex born that year (so I'd get to pick one of her foals. If my mare has a filly, I'd get to pick a filly... and if she has a colt, I'd get to pick a colt). Or I could pick one of her mares and breed that mare to a stallion of my choice (either one of her stallions, or mine), and keep that foal. Since my mare is bred for next year already, and that foal is scheduled to be a keeper for me, we have at least a year to decide what we want to do!

 

[valshingle]

I attempted to do this and IT DID NOT WORK!!!!!

I thought I was dealing with someone that I trusted. I had bred to her mares before. I admired one of her mares (Mare #1) and offered to breed to another mare (Mare #2) in exchange for getting a foal out of the one I liked. So I breed both mares and both get in foal. When the owner comes to pick up the mares, she tells me a sob story of how she can't afford to feed both mares and since the foal is going to be mine anyway, she thinks I should keep Mare #1 at my place and foal her out the next spring. I reluctantly agree fearing that if I don't, she won't take care of Mare #1 who will then lose her foal. I tell her I won't be responsible if something happens to Mare #1 while in my care and won't be liable for any extraordinary vet expenses. She agrees and says she will assume all liability. Well, you can guess what happened. Two weeks prior to foaling a stray dog scares the mare (does not attack her, she was safe behind good fencing) and sends her into premature labor. She has a dystocia and I call the vet. Vet can't get the foal turned and we have to do a Caesarian to save the mare. A fetotomy was considered too risky for the mare. I call the owner and tell her the situation and ask if she wants the operation done. She says yes, please do it. The mares value is well below the cost of the surgery. The mare gets through the surgery great, but the foal is dead (of course). The mare stays at the vet for two weeks and then needs to stay at my place for additional two weeks before she is safe to travel. My vet sends the bill to the owner and never hears from her, but I don't know this yet. After the month post surgery is over. I tell the owner to come and get her, giving her a specific time in the afternoon because I won't be home in the morning. I also tell her that I'll have the vet bill for her (just got told by the vet there was no payment yet). You guessed it...the owner came when I wasn't home and took the mare. She then never paid the bill, ignored certified letters, phone calls, emails, etc. I paid the vet bill because I need to maintain a good relationship with him. The end result is that my stallion serviced 2 mares and I paid out $1800 in vet bills and all of that mare's care for the previous year. Oh, Mare #2 had a beautiful filly just before Mare #1 lost hers. I did make sure that AMHA knows that I won't sign the stallion certificate, my only recourse.

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

I attempted to do this and IT DID NOT WORK!!!!!

I thought I was dealing with someone that I trusted. I had bred to her mares before. I admired one of her mares (Mare #1) and offered to breed to another mare (Mare #2) in exchange for getting a foal out of the one I liked. So I breed both mares and both get in foal. When the owner comes to pick up the mares, she tells me a sob story of how she can't afford to feed both mares and since the foal is going to be mine anyway, she thinks I should keep Mare #1 at my place and foal her out the next spring. I reluctantly agree fearing that if I don't, she won't take care of Mare #1 who will then lose her foal. I tell her I won't be responsible if something happens to Mare #1 while in my care and won't be liable for any extraordinary vet expenses. She agrees and says she will assume all liability. Well, you can guess what happened. Two weeks prior to foaling a stray dog scares the mare (does not attack her, she was safe behind good fencing) and sends her into premature labor. She has a dystocia and I call the vet. Vet can't get the foal turned and we have to do a Caesarian to save the mare. A fetotomy was considered too risky for the mare. I call the owner and tell her the situation and ask if she wants the operation done. She says yes, please do it. The mares value is well below the cost of the surgery. The mare gets through the surgery great, but the foal is dead (of course). The mare stays at the vet for two weeks and then needs to stay at my place for additional two weeks before she is safe to travel. My vet sends the bill to the owner and never hears from her, but I don't know this yet. After the month post surgery is over. I tell the owner to come and get her, giving her a specific time in the afternoon because I won't be home in the morning. I also tell her that I'll have the vet bill for her (just got told by the vet there was no payment yet). You guessed it...the owner came when I wasn't home and took the mare. She then never paid the bill, ignored certified letters, phone calls, emails, etc. I paid the vet bill because I need to maintain a good relationship with him. The end result is that my stallion serviced 2 mares and I paid out $1800 in vet bills and all of that mare's care for the previous year. Oh, Mare #2 had a beautiful filly just before Mare #1 lost hers. I did make sure that AMHA knows that I won't sign the stallion certificate, my only recourse.

Yikes!

What a nightmare for sure.

 

[kaykay]

Like Val I have had friends have nightmare stories from doing this. If you are determined to do it - my best advice is get an iron clad contract that SPELLS OUT EVERYTHING.

 

[Zipper]

I have no experience doing any of this but if you have everything talked about and try to cover the worse that could happen and write everything down

it could be a good thing.

I know it is done here alot in the quarter horses and a friend of mine does it for a couple mares every year and it works out for her and she loves it as she gets a foal without having to have a extra horse and each year she seems to find different bloodlines she likes and wants to try with her stallion.

 

[Genie]

I have heard of different types of arrangements, other than a breed fee, and they make me nervous.

 

[Jill]

No, I wouldn't consider doing this with my stallions. I have mares that are what I want and make foals I like... I really would not want to get involved that "deeply" in another person's horses. There's actually a wide range other "creative" things I'd consider, but that particular idea isn't one of them.

 

[ohmt]

I would definitely consider it if someone had a mare I really liked and I thought would cross well with one of my stallions. I actually really like the idea. There would be risks, yes, but risks come with everything when you breed.

 

[Carolyn R]

Nope, sorry. I know how I take care of my horses. When one is leased, they are out of your hands (but ultimately you are the owner, ultimately it is your name on the line, and ultimately you are the one with the moral obligation to do what is right).

 

[MajorClementine]

Wide range of answers here! Thanks guys. The reason I ask is I have a good friend (who got me into minis) who has two awesome mares but no stud. We both want a foal so I was thinking I could breed my stud to his mares and we'd both come out with what we want. I know this guy really well. I worked for his family for 4 years and I know how they take care of their animals. I also know they are honest people. I just wasn't sure if this idea seemed fair to the owner of the mares. I didn't know if there was a lot of extra cost on his end having the mare. I know this is done in race horses a lot, my grandfather had an arrangement similar to this when he was racing. You guys have given me a lot to think about.

 

[Michelle@wescofarms]

I have done this with people I know.

One example, my mare Libbe, went up to Kathi (WCR on the forum), she bred her kept her there for a year, foaled her out, weaned her and sent her home pregnant.

Another time I cared for someone's Minis with choice of foals (ended up with a gorgeous LK Bay Ablaze daughter).

Breeding mares with pick of foals, is much like breeders in the dog world. Generally the stud owner gets first choice, but not always.

A contract will save alot of problems. Spell out the details in the contract (vet/care responsibility, rebreeding if open, etc.) Even when I breed my mares to outside stallions, other than close friends that I trust, I prefer to have the stallion here versus sending them out. IMHO stallions will breed wherever/whenever, but mares do better where they feel comfortable.