AMHR/ASPC Cross Enter at SAME SHOW Proposal

[disneyhorse]

I think what a lot of people are misunderstanding:

Just because a horse can cross enter AMHR to ASPC at a show, DOES NOT mean that a show HAS TO offer ASPC classes.

There can still be "just" AMHR only shows. So, shows won't have to hold and pay for ASPC classes!!!

It's just that if they DO the horses can cross enter.

 

[Sandee]

Just a few thoughts. First the double shows: If you show your mini (reg.) horse in jumping and turn around and show him again in sheltand, will he do as good? Some will some will get tired but then that's got to be the choice of the owner/entrant. By holding them together, at least on the same weekend, your club should be able to save travel for judges and if they'd be so kind as to double up on rooms, save on hotels too. Now, however, as to showing costs. Bob, as I am, is used to shows that one fee will get you the whole weekend of events. IF we go to double shows, to make more money for the clubs there should be seperate fees for showing AMHR and ASPC. In other words, at least, double the cost for participants. However, they would also save on not having to travel to a seperate show on a different weekend.

So far it's sounding like a win, win. Shows can be run so that the double reg. that jumps in wins in one class has to do the double class soon after or right after making it a slight disadvantage to show double. That would be if someone is concerned about one person winning it all! In fact showing a mini class and then the shetland class next, or vice versa, is a good idea so that the trainers don't end up getting the same horse ready twice.

Those that are breeders that think this hurts them. I'm sorry. Are you actually telling us that you got into breeding to make money? Admit it you don't make a huge bundle. You're in this business because you like the ponies/horses. If you make money it's a positive thing but not the driving factor. I really like the look of the miniatures and definitely like their personality better than most horses. However, I have to admit that while I find my "pony" ugly, he is certainly entertaining to watch how he plays (my minis don't). He's also quite a picture when he drives and most minis aren't. He looks terrific under saddle and I have growing grandkids.

There's a need for both mini and shetland and we need to find a way to work together. As the old addage says, "We're stronger together!".

 

[LaVern]

I think the rules say the judge can't see a horse before a AMHR show, so how would that work? I know that is why the AMHA shows have to be after AMHR. Something like that. So wouldn't you have to get two sets of judges. Maybe I have that wrong.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

A judge may not visit the horses' stall area, witness the measuring of animals, inspect, or discuss any horse entered in the show before the judging, nor shall a judge review the show program until after the judging has been completed.

 

[Karen S]

Ok guys where are you getting double the fee's at a show? That's the most ridiculas thing I've heard/read so far. Our club, the ASPC/AMHR Club of N. Texas, the oldest club in Area V has been hosting ASPC/AMHR shows for almost 20 years. We DO NOT charge seperate fees if you only show as a Miniature or Shetland. Some of you that have NEVER been to a well run ASPC/AMHR show need to come to one of ours. You can go look at our class list....www.aspcamhrntexas.com and see what we charge and how our class list is set up. A few years back we purposely timed each and every class to see where the down time was and where we needed to move classes around. We have been using this same show schedule going on five years now. It works! If you don't have a Shetland/Miniature show in your area, then come on down. I have personally driven as much as 14 hours to a show for a weekend. Don't be afraid to step outside your backyard, Go see what is out there. Tracey Slagle this year put on a very nice Shetland/Miniature show in August at the Lancaster County Event Center....for the first show in that area the turnout was nice...next year it will be in May. If you really want something, ask for a show manager to come to your area to put on a show. You might be suprised.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

Karen I think they were talking about getting extra fees if a AMHR/ASPC pony shows both AMHR and ASPC. One horse for the price of 2 per say if the owner decides to show that horse as a miniature and as a shetland at the same show.

 

[Karen S]

Jamie,

In answer to your question....it's not going to amount to a whole lot. (using our clubs show bill)

Example: Lets say a ASPC/AMHR Gelding that would show as a Foundation in the ASPC

Stall fee stays the same for one horse....$50.00

Office fee stay the same for one horse...$10.00

Miniature Gelding 38":

Open Halter..........$25.00

Amateur Halter....$15.00

Youth Halter: 13-17, 8-12, 7 & Younger....$30.00 for the three age divisions

Open Obstacle....$25.00

Amateur Obstacle...$15.00

Youth: 13-17, 8-12 & & & Younger (yes have been used for all three kids)...$30.00

Open Roadster...$25.00

Amateur Roadster...$15.00

Youth Roadster..$10.00

Liberty...$25.00

Costume...$25.00

Total as a Miniature: $300.00

Shetland:

Foundation Gelding Halter

Open.....$25.00

Amateur.....$ 15.00

Youth...13-17, 8-12, 7 & Younger....$30.00

Classic Obstacle (because there is no Foundation Obstacle)

Open...$25.00

Amateur...$15.00

Youth..13-17, 8-12, 7 & Younger....$30.00

Open Roadser....$25.00

Amateur Roadster...$15.00

Youth Roadster....$10.00

ASPC Liberty...$25.00

ASPC Costume...$25.00

Total for Shetland: $240.00

Grand Total would be $540 for one dual registered if was able to show across the lines.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

Thank you Karen. I would also think you would have to charge an extra office fee as a shetland as well because you are dealing with 2 sets of different paperwork. Almost dealing with a completely different horse. The only thing you wouldn't get would be the extra stall fee.

Now with this ruling would you have to get a different judge just for the shetlands since this is quoted from the rule book:

"A judge may not visit the horses' stall area, witness the measuring of animals, inspect, or discuss any horse entered in the show before the judging, nor shall a judge review the show program until after the judging has been completed."

Or would this new rule just replace it or is this statement not even talking about the actual judging of an animal? Cause to me the word "inspect" means to judge or examine.

 

[Sandee]

If you read it the way you have it stated, then a horse that has been judged in, say halter, could not show in jumping because the judge has "already seen him". So I don't think the rule means that he couldn't have seen the horse in a class before in the same show. Regardless of whether it was a R or ASPC class.

 

[fastrack]

I'm a late comer to this thread. Just have to say, I think the best post is 'LaVern's' family comparison....LOVED IT!

And it best sums up the whole situation.

 

[Minimor]

I read it the same was as Sandee--the rule uses two different words : inspect and judging. Inspect would be an inspection for hardship measuring perhaps? Or perhaps going through the barn looking at all the horses there? He cannot inspect them before judging starts but once he is judging the classes then obviously he can see the same horse in multiple classes.

 

[Karen S]

Jamie,

When we hire judges, they all have their ASPC-C & M and AMHR card. We hire two judges, the Moderns can only have 2 judges. When you go to a multi judge show, the AMHR, Classic, Foundation and Modern Pleasure are the only divisions to which can have more than 2 judges. The Moderns and Show ponies are only allowed two judges.

This isn't hard....and no, you don't charge two office fee's for the same horse. Some clubs might but that's their choice. Paperwork will require two sets of back numbers....speaking of back numbers.....if you go to a show and have been issued your two different back numbers...one as a miniature and one as a Shetland....you walk into that Shetland class with your miniature number...you will be DQ by the office. The show manager can't do that as she has to follow what is on that judges card. Already seen it this year with folks who show a Modern that is also a Show Pony...issued their two different back numbers, went into their Show Pony class with their Modern back number and was DQ by the office.

People will have to pay attention to what they are doing as they could pentalize themselves.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

That is true.

Well that is the only rule I can find in the rule book that is closest to anything about not allowing judges to see animals before hand. Heck I can't even find the cross-enter ruling in the rule book as it is.

 

[Lewella]

Karen a horse showing in both registries would need two different back numbers so most shows would charge two office fees (as they do for ponies showing both ASPC and ASPR).

JMS I think the word "inspect" is in reference to inspection for hardship.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

Karen a horse showing in both registries would need two different back numbers so most shows would charge two office fees (as they do for ponies showing both ASPC and ASPR).

JMS I think the word "inspect" is in reference to inspection for hardship.

Got ya.

 

[dreaminmini]

Jamie,

In answer to your question....it's not going to amount to a whole lot. (using our clubs show bill)

Example: Lets say a ASPC/AMHR Gelding that would show as a Foundation in the ASPC

Stall fee stays the same for one horse....$50.00

Office fee stay the same for one horse...$10.00

Miniature Gelding 38":

Open Halter..........$25.00

Amateur Halter....$15.00

Youth Halter: 13-17, 8-12, 7 & Younger....$30.00 for the three age divisions

Open Obstacle....$25.00

Amateur Obstacle...$15.00

Youth: 13-17, 8-12 & & & Younger (yes have been used for all three kids)...$30.00

Open Roadster...$25.00

Amateur Roadster...$15.00

Youth Roadster..$10.00

Liberty...$25.00

Costume...$25.00

Total as a Miniature: $300.00

Shetland:

Foundation Gelding Halter

Open.....$25.00

Amateur.....$ 15.00

Youth...13-17, 8-12, 7 & Younger....$30.00

Classic Obstacle (because there is no Foundation Obstacle)

Open...$25.00

Amateur...$15.00

Youth..13-17, 8-12, 7 & Younger....$30.00

Open Roadser....$25.00

Amateur Roadster...$15.00

Youth Roadster....$10.00

ASPC Liberty...$25.00

ASPC Costume...$25.00

Total for Shetland: $240.00

Grand Total would be $540 for one dual registered if was able to show across the lines.

As a person showing on a budget, and I doubt I am the only one, the money is just not there to double my classes. If anything, if I were to try some Shetland classes I would either be cutting some AMHR classes to do it or going to less shows. I wonder how many more would be doing the same. Because where I show most of our shows are pay per class not a flat fee.

I realize the Shetland people want increased numbers but would they even get them. How many people have bought ASPC/AMHR horses only to be able to win because they are the current trend and that is what is winning. Do they have any intention on stepping into the pony ring?? Maybe someone should be polling the intentions of those owning double registered. As well if they will enter pony classes will they be competing in less AMHR classes because then we are looking at something detrimenral to the AMHR bottom line.

As well, the above example, in my opinion, is way too many classes for one poor horse to compete in. I realize it is just an example but one I am hoping doesnt get followed for the horses sake.

 

[Minimor]

Really? You (and that is a rather generalized 'you') complain when the ponies show AMHR and then worry that they might drop out of some AMHR classes to show as ponies? LOL

Since the owners of the dual registered horses are the ones pushing for this they must have intentions of showing in both if they are allowed to--I do know that there are some very avid show people asking for this and they are able to afford it I would rather imagine

 

[dreaminmini]

Not complaining Holly. Just voicing another part of the scenario. Something for people to think about.

Most I know can't afford to double their entries and most only want to show mini anyway, they only bought them because that is the trend. I like to know the numbers pushing for this, who the driving force is, I am guessing the majority are from the Shetland camps.

 

[Minimor]

What is the Shetland camp? It is the AMHR exhibitors, the ones who want more things to show in. It isn't the ones showing Shetland now if that is what you mean!

 

[disneyhorse]

I would venture to guess that a show charging a flat entry fee would charge two for a double registered horse. The registration number and often even the name of the horse is different, so a show manager wouldn't even know without looking at birthdate/sire/dam that it was one horse. And, as pointed out, two back numbers are issued.

My pony is ASPC/aspr and I show him in both divisions when I show. I pay two office fees as he is on separate entries in each division as I have to enter his two different numbers and two different names.