Ammy poll for amhr

[kaykay]

a small group of us would really like to see an aote program started in amhr. I have contacted karen shaw to see how to go about doing it. I am willing to write up the proprosal with some help from my friends if there is interest. but it wont be until next year as we are too late this year. Honestly i would also like to see an ammy level one and two but i figure aote was a good place to start. We feel this will encourage more new people to try to show without getting so frustrated. it would have the same basic rules as amha. no one but the ammy could touch or train the horse etc.

I have many newer people to minis that have tried showing and just get so frustrated that they quit. They just feel that even if their horse is as good they cant compete with the trainers and ammy's showing horses trained by professional trainers.

i feel really strongly about having a level one and two as this also will get some new people out showing. Kinda like a novice class. I dont even qualify for this class but i feel its important. This way they dont have to show against other ammys that have been breeding and showing for 15 years.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

Hmm well might get flamed here but personally I like things the basic way they are.

I realize there are some advantages to those classes as well as some disadvantages and things that can bring on more conflict.

For me it is really just fine how it is. I am a total dork when it comes to showing and yet still have the ability to place both locally and nationally in ammy in the class just how it is which to me just says how totally do-able it is for anyone

even when you show your horse and train your horse by yourself like i do

 

[Fred]

Get out my flameproof suit too! I like things the way they are. I am an amateur

and I like the fact I can train, shown and win in AMHR in amateur AND open

classes. The fact R nationals is growing so much should prove everyone feels

they have an equal shot at it! Linda B

 

[alongman]

I'll throw in my two cents as well - I have one client in particular who takes great joy in showing her horse in the amateur class. She didn't have the courage to do it herself initially. I worked with her and the horse - now both are doing well. In fact, she used this as a starting place and has since started working some of her own horses at home to show.

I showed in amateur many years ago and felt GREAT when I'd go into classes that had horses that were trained by big names and BEAT THEM!

 

[Connie Ballard]

We dont qualify to show AOTE...but I think its a good idea for AMHR. I know alot of people in AMHA that really enjoy showing in the AOTE classes.

Like any rule/class...there is debate from different people.

The only real issue that I have heard with AOTE is that some would like to see it be only amateur owned trained and exhibited...where a horse that has been with a trainer...ever...is not qualified for the class. In AMHA, as the rules are now...as long as the horse has not been with a trainer since January 1st of the show year...it is qualified to show AOTE.

If AMHR developed a set of AOTE classes...maybe they could do a vote of what members want it to be.

 

[Erica]

I like it the way it is now also.......anyone can show in ammy and do good if they have their horse looking the best it can and have put at lot of hours and work in them ( you can't just take a horse out of pasture anymore). I have only been in the ammy classes for three years, but I also have shown in the open classes (even at Nationals) since I was 15, in 1999. And have came home with National Champions and Reserves in the Open ever since. You don't have to be a huge name, or have horses in with a big name trainer to cut it at AMHR.

Just added -

I mean there are A LOT of ammys that show now that could also go into the AOTE program .............I mean I do all of it myself so I could, Lisa Davis could, McCarthy's, and the list goes on...........

 

[Ashley]

NOpe, I like it the way it is as well. And honestly if there are people in there with horses that were trained by trainers..........thats fine, then you should be all the more proud when you beat them.

I think alot of the purposed changes come up are because a person is afraid there horses wont win. Some do, some dont. All up to the given judge on a give day.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

Just added - I mean there are A LOT of ammys that show now that could also go into the AOTE program .............I mean I do all of it myself so I could,  Lisa Davis could,  McCarthy's, and the list goes on...........

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I agree for the most part would be showing against many of the same people anyway and for me anyway i prefer the large classes it means so much TO ME ANYWAY to place in a class of 35 or 40 then in a class if 9 or 10

dont get me wrong i would take either ribbon and RUN but still the satisfaction for me the big ol doofus and trust me if you saw me show you would agree i am a DOOFUS can still get a ribbon makes me feel great and should give ANYONE the confidence to do it

 

[Sanny]

EDITED BY ME......because.......I still stand by having voted yes on this topic because I do feel that on a local level anything that helps make getting involved in minis less intimidating and more fun for newbies is NOT a bad thing. But beyond that, I haven't been around long enough to have paid my dues and learned enough to have a more knowleagable opinion on the topic.

 

[wpsellwood]

I think most of the same people that do so well in all of the classes would be competing in aote. So I dont know if that would be a big change. What about a novice class like 2 yrs or 3 yrs then you get bummed out, to give people a chance??? I know I show against a tough crowd in the AOTE classes in the A.

 

[Serene Acres]

I agree with everyone about liking things the way they are. Coming from Area II we see a lot of our Amateurs do well on the local and national level and this can be said for all the other areas as well I've seen a lot of Amateurs beat trainers. I am on Triple A Committee and I know we will look into this and please if you have any thoughts let Karen or your Area Representative know.

 

[Fred]

When you start out in anything YOU HAVE TO PAY YOUR DUES! Whether it is

work or hobby. Those professional trainers that do so well paid their dues, those

amateurs that do so well paid their dues! If you are going to show and feel you

don't have a chance why show? I think the amateur progam in AMHR right now

works just fine. Amateurs that start out and are discouraged sometimes [note I

said sometimes] don't want to do the work or make the time to learn what it takes

to win. Sometimes [sad to say] it is others that make them feel inferior. I have

never felt that at an AMHR show. AMHR is for everyone but novices will never

progress if they never have a challenge! Linda B

 

[Erica]

AMHR is for everyone but novices will never
progress if they never have a challenge! Linda B 

That is so true about almost everything.

I remember back when I started showing - and doing OK, but not GREAT. If I would have just been hunky dory about doing OK or had walked out winning everything back then then I would have had to incentive to work harder, breed better horse, put extra effort in them, learn new things, watch others ext.......even now there is always a strive to do better each and every year in many areas for me.

 

[Jill]

From what I know (which we know's not a lot) it seems to work pretty well like it is now and with the Triple A program (which I know nothing about yet) it seems like the AMHR has tried to do things to make the ammy program more rewarding. I look forward to learning more about that and to showing open and ammy again next year (did last year, not this one).

 

[kaykay]

well i have to say i am really suprised how so many people do not want any kind of change in AMHR. I can understand when i brought up making it harder to qualify for nationals and thats fine as i do understand. Im going to be really blunt here and say some people dont want this change because they are so against amha and this reminds them too much of amha. The aote program is one of the best programs amha has come up with. So is their ammy level one and two. Implementing something similiar is not an insult to amhr!!! Also this idea was brought back to my attention by a very well known paid trainer. She also feels that this would be a big plus to getting new people showing in the amhr circuit. Im hoping shell come post but she mostly lurks LOL.

I think what you are all missing here is LOCAL SHOWS. Im not talking about nationals! Again i want to state that this is not for my benefit as I would probably not qualify as an ammy level one. But i will tell you this. In our LOCAL show circuit myself and tami parrington are probably the only two new people to the circuit in 4 YEARS!!! Tami and i have encouraged alot of new people to show and they did and really liked it. But they got frustrated and gave up. I have seen it over and over. I liken it to something similiar as the youth division. We give them their own division so they dont get frustrated and quit. We want to encourage them to go on. We should do the same thing for people just getting into minis.

Erica i know lisa davis well and we are good friends. But lets be honest. Does a person who has never shown stand a chance against an ammy like lisa davis?? Even if their horse is every bit as good they have to learn how to handle that horse. So they start in ammy level one competing against people their own skill level. Then they move up to two and start competing against the more seasoned amatuers. How could this be a bad thing??

And remember not all local circuits are created equal. At my local circuit i am competing against ammys like lisa davis, frank at jo co minis, karen wales from westwood, etc etc. Yes they are amatuers because they dont take pay. But make no mistake that they are every bit as seasoned and professional as a paid trainer. My gosh most of these people have been showing horses for 15 plus years! And i have learned from all of them and i am greatful that i get to show with them. But i know that first year was a struggle and there were many times i almost threw the towel in. But im stubborn so i just keep plugging away.

I said it before and ill keep saying it. we have got to get local show attendance up and more new blood in the show circuit. I just talked to lennie bertrand this weekend and his show schedule for 2006 has been cut in half. He will now have more judges (a good thing) but half as many shows.

 

[nootka]

Kaykay's got it right on...this is an excellent program, and very encouraging to people who are just starting out.

They are out there in the ring w/horses exhibited by others like them, rather than those that have been prepped and coached by trainers.

It would be silly to avoid doing it because of a prejudice against another registry, either way.

It's an excellent opportunity to get people out and showing and feeling confident enough to enter the ring for the first time. Plus, there is incentive to move up to the next level!

Liz M.

 

[kaykay]

just want to address what a couple people have said:

Connie---i do feel strongly that if this was a go it should be written that the horse could NEVER have been with a paid trainer.

Ashley---i am not doing this because my horses cant win. as i have said many times in this thread doing this is not going to affect my horses as i wouldnt be elgible for ammy level one.

but i do think it could affect ALL OF OUR FUTURE SALES.

Lyn brought up on the dble post that there is basically already an ammy program and this would make nationals classes too long that are already too long.

Lyn---this would split up the huge ammy classes at nationals. So instead of having one huge ammy class you would have ammy level one and two. It would probably move quicker then one huge class. Plus we all need to stop thinking of strictly nationals. That is a once per year show. This ammy program would i believe get attendance up at local shows all year.

Keep in mind too that it takes almost 2 years to make changes in either registry. this proposal would have to be sent to the ammy committee in 2006 and voted on at convention nov 2006. so nothign would even change until 2007. Change doesnt come quickly thats for sure LOL

 

[Erica]

Erica i know lisa davis well and we are good friends. But lets be honest. Does a person who has never shown stand a chance against an ammy like lisa davis?? Even if their horse is every bit as good they have to learn how to handle that horse. So they start in ammy level one competing against people their own skill level. Then they move up to two and start competing against the more seasoned amatuers. How could this be a bad thing??

Kay,

I understand where you are coming from but your question/poll was about AOTE --- which is not level one and level two.

Many great ammys do it theirselves and would be right there in that AOTE program - I could make a huge list and I would say over 50% of the ammys that placed top ten also did it all themselves........I mean so saying you want AOTE so you aren't showing against ammys who have been for a while, well there will be ammys that have shown for a long time in there.

I just stated I liked it the way it was. I am not against change. IF Amhr gets an AOTE program great - I will be there with bells on as I usually have several horses that I could show in ammy and have to pick. I just hope the rules wouldn't be as strict as AMHA as far as such things like no one besides the person showing can lead the horse off the trailer, water ext.....( I don't know how AMHA does that pertaining to family) but I know at the shows my dad helps out a lot with the mucking, watering ext.......

 

[js1arab]

Well, since it seems that the people who agree with Kay are the one's that need their flame suits on, I'll go get mine. I do feel it would be a great idea to have a tighter AOTE class. By tighter I mean horse has never been with a professional and owner has never paid a professional to coach him/her. I also would like to see it eventually have two levels as well. One for absolute newbies who have not won more than 3 or 4 firsts at rated shows. Then a level for intermediates. This would be a great market for those of us who have a foal born who is nice enough to clean up and show, but not a national champion. And I feel confident that even the best farms have a few of them to sell. That way a new owner can go into the ring and learn without frustration. I understand that everyone has to work to improve, but that is much easier to do by starting out small and growing. Not by jumping in a big pond when you hardly know how to swim. I have shown for years and each year I learn more and more but due to some health issues, I do not keep my horses stalled and sweated (don't have the energy to pick stalls everyday) and do not keep them conditioned as they really should be for shows. I know this about myself and I realize that is what it takes to be competitive, but it would be nice to have a venue where it was a bit more fun instead of die hard competitors. I enjoy showing, but I personally could care less if my horse wins a National title. And those who want to call ammy's whiners and lazy or whatever....just save it.

 

[Fred]

I really do not feel we need more amateur classes. If you put more classes in it

puts a strain on the show and show manager. They have a set amount already

that is required. If you encourage your youth the parents will follow. If you

just want to go in the ring and get a ribbon it will be just like it is here in New

England. You have to have competition to thrive. A lot of this depends upon the

attitude of the exhibitors themselves. Anyone can work their way up I know, I did.

I would suggest more creative efforts on the clubs who put on the shows in order

to get more exhibitors. Gas prices are through the roof that is also affecting

show numbers. Also in New England they already have novice classes for amateur

and IT HAS NOT HELPED ATTENDANCE AT ALL! Linda B