Anyone hardship AMHA lately?

[LostandFound]

I've heard they measure differently for a hardship than they do for showing. If you can't measure do they refund you in a timely manner? My new boy is real close in height, and I'm considering it. But I don't know if it's worth the effort or the cost.

 

[elizabeth.conder]

They measure the same, to the last hair of the mane. You typically have to submit all the paperwork and blood testing prior to measuring so stewards don’t get caught measuring high amounts of ponies “just to see if they’ll measure in.” So that money is gone. If I remember right, you don’t have to pay the hardship fee until you actually submit the application. It’s definitely worth it to me for a breeding or show prospect, but it is costly. Even costly, to me, it’s worth it.

 

[LostandFound]

They measure the same, to the last hair of the mane. You typically have to submit all the paperwork and blood testing prior to measuring so stewards don’t get caught measuring high amounts of ponies “just to see if they’ll measure in.” So that money is gone. If I remember right, you don’t have to pay the hardship fee until you actually submit the application. It’s definitely worth it to me for a breeding or show prospect, but it is costly. Even costly, to me, it’s worth it.

I guess what I mean is that I was told they are more lenient on how you measure for a show. I know how they place the horse's legs has a bit to do with how they measure. What they told me at the office was you submit your payment and if the horse doesn't measure you apply for a refund. I will have to see if they will take a credit card and only charge it if he measures.
I'm hoping he will be a little show horse, and I intend to cross my mare with him this summer. I guess I should share a pic of him....He is already R and shetland.

 

[Cayuse]

I wish you luck. I tried to hardship mine and got no further than the phone call to the registry where they were incredibly rude. I decided to keep my money.

ETA: your little horse is quite handsome!

 

[elizabeth.conder]

Gotcha! By the rule book, there should be zero difference. Because the registered height is the actual height which is what they will show as. There has been a huge uproar lately with cheating during the measuring. The horse should be set square and not be manipulated to force a measure in. They are pushing for some rule changes because people have doing it anyway. This is how they are supposed to be measured every single time...


LOVE your boy, if he can measure in I would 10000000% try to get him triple registered! Cayuse, I am sorry you had a bad experience. They have always been super helpful to me so maybe you caught them on a bad day. Not an excuse for them obviously, but if you are still interested, you could always try again!

 

[LostandFound]

Sorry to hear that Cayuse. I've called a couple times and they have been less then helpful at times but never rude. One of the reasons I prefer AMHR...they are faster, more helpful, and always super nice.
There is so much cheating during the measuring that I have decided it must not actually be cheating. I don't think one single person at the show except me measures their horses in the acceptable position. This boy is a solid inch shorter than the last stallion I had, and he is showing at 33 1/2.

 

[HersheyMint]

He is beautiful

 

[Marsha Cassada]

Off topic, but my sister is working with AMHA to get her horses transferred. She had to leave a message to a voice mail for someone to call her back within two days. That does not seem very professional. Never my experience in the past.
At an A show I worked at many years ago, I watched the steward measure. Some people brought their horses back a few times to be remeasured. I had no idea what was going on. That steward seemed very professional. I remember one horse didn't measure in.

 

[elizabeth.conder]

They are given 3 chances to measure in because sometimes the horse is not relaxed and it affects it ability to measure correctly. I anticipate rules will change to enforce correct measuring, as they should. It is a height registry after all, and if they cannot measure in, they should not be allowed to show. There are a few people in particular who are being dishonest and more and more people are starting to voice opinions. The next AMHA meeting should be interesting!

 

[LostandFound]

That's a mixed bag. If they correctly enforce height rules they are going to lose 99% of their 34" horses. And probably half of their 33 3/4" horses. People will leave for AMHR and show numbers and membership will drop. Enough to make a dent in their budget. On the other hand if they pull these 37" horses out of the show ring and out of the breeding pool it will make for less horses that don't measure in. But that will take time. It's frustrating to spend a lot of money picking a mare and stallion, a year of pregnancy and another year or two to mature only to have the perfect horse....that measures a quarter inch too big to show.

 

[elizabeth.conder]

Oh I get it. But it’s the rules. Either get rid of the registry or stick to the rules because people will continue to push the rules. If you say oh, we can give them some leeway of an inch, well then people will push for 1.25” and then 1.5” etc. it’s the same for amhr and the 38” cutoff. Many push that height too for shetlands. I show amha and I know MANY MANY people who stick to the rules. So there are plenty of people there that will keep the registry going if those that are currently the center of the cheating scandals were to leave the registry. Why do you think they would lose that many 34” and 33.75” horses? I have multiple that are at that height and they’ve always measured in and been allowed? I mean if they measure under 34 then what will disqualify them? End of the day, a registry shouldn’t punish honest breeders by allowing dishonest breeders to get away with oversized horses. I’ve turned down multiple NICE mares because they were too tall. I could have got them for a steal of a deal. But I’m strict that all of my horses measure under 34”. Sure eventually they may produce an over 34” horse. But that’s part of it unfortunately.

 

[LostandFound]

I agree with you. The rules are the rules and should be followed or changed. And I'm certainly not trying to say they shouldn't enforce the rules because people will leave, I'm saying they may not want to because they are worried about it. Maybe it's a little different out your way but I don't see people measuring their horses square like in that picture. They are measuring them parked out. My little stallion in that picture is not standing square, he is parked, although only a little bit. Can I have him measured like that? What if I spread his front feet an inch or two wider? Am I allowed to poke his back and make him drop it? Is that cheating? Where exactly is the line drawn?
If you would consider measuring him as he is standing cheating....and from the rules it should be...Then I feel like there is a lot more of it than just a few breeders.

 

[elizabeth.conder]

They allow you to set up your horse. In amha, horses are not shown parked, at least not usually. You can run your hand down the back to have them relax and straighten it. Because you are measuring to the last hair of the mane. If it changes it, it’s not much at all. The pinto in that pic is super stretched to allow them to measure in, which is not allowed. Stewards are supposed to correct that and refuse to measure if they are set up that way. If you look at some of the biggest breeders and trainers they show their horses close to square. They’ll stretch them a bit, but not a lot. Amhr and ASPC parks horses out more typically.

 

[Capriole]

This might not quite be on topic, but there's something I've wondered about for a while....many decades ago I vaguely remember there was a Section C for miniature horses that had a registered sire and dam but matured over the height limit. I haven't seen that mentioned for quite some time so I assume that it was eliminated. I was just wondering if anyone knows why...it seems that if a horse has a registered sire and dam they should be able to be shown in breed shows.....

 

[LostandFound]

I haven't seen anything about it, but it's a neat idea. APHA had a huge problem with solid colored horses that couldn't be shown. As a breeder you knew you would have a certain percentage of horses that were (at that time) unable to even be given away. Then they started to have the breeding stock classes, which changed to solid paint bred I think. I want to say even pinto does that now. Of course the market is a lot different now than it used to be. But the mini shows are so ridiculously stuffed with classes that I'm not sure they could add anything even if they wanted to.

I think I've got this figured out @elizabeth.conder . When I'm talking about "cheating" I'm talking about what you call setting the horse up or Stretched a bit. Which everyone that I've seen does. Coming from a stock horse background I see that as parked out, and from their own rules it isn't allowed, yet everyone does it. And if your horse measures a tight 34" that way then suddenly has to stand like the acceptable picture he is now going to be over. If you look at the way a set up horse is standing it does not match the "acceptable" picture. What you are considering "cheating" is something I haven't seen done yet. So I'm not really sure what they are doing unless they are just ignoring the measuring stick.
I guess it all comes down to what you are used to. Someone who showed Paints or Quarter horses looks at an AMHA class and sees a bunch of parked out horses. Someone who has shown shetlands or gaited horse says they are close to square.

 

[Marsha Cassada]

I would think it is the steward's responsibility to see that the rules are enforced. It may not make him popular, but that seems to be where the last hair stops.

 

[Marsha Cassada]

This might not quite be on topic, but there's something I've wondered about for a while....many decades ago I vaguely remember there was a Section C for miniature horses that had a registered sire and dam but matured over the height limit. I haven't seen that mentioned for quite some time so I assume that it was eliminated. I was just wondering if anyone knows why...it seems that if a horse has a registered sire and dam they should be able to be shown in breed shows.....

I am not sure I agree with this. Especially with AMHA. Breeders know the rules. A is a height registry.

 

[elizabeth.conder]

I would think it is the steward's responsibility to see that the rules are enforced. It may not make him popular, but that seems to be where the last hair stops.

Exactly. Too many stewards are allowing handlers to stretch and manipulate the horses in ways to get them under.

 

[Marsha Cassada]

Received my registration certificate from AMHR for Billy yesterday. I sent both applications the same day. Check from AMHA not cashed yet, and no paperwork yet.
For me, there is something very cool about getting the registration document in the mail! It means the horse is mine, for better or worse.