ASPC stallions via frozen semen ?

[Nathan Luszcz]

Collecting and processing semen is pretty easy, yes. Hence why I find myself unemployed! Why pay someone with a MS and an equine repro specialty to do work an untrained high schooler can learn in a couple weeks? As I said, its something almost anyone can do after a short course or similar hands-on teaching. But freezing semen is a TOTALLY different game. That's lab work preformed by a trained technician. And if you haven't delved into USDA export requirements..... ugh. Its almost easier to figure out the Tax Code. You won't hear me argue with anything you said, its all quite true! I'm always happy to talk about this subject, so you are more than welcome to suggest a different point of view!

4 shipped doses is 4 billion progressively motile cells... for reference, an average full sized stallion can produce 8-10 billion. That's 8-10 doses, enough for 4-5 mares (industry standard is to ship two doses per mare). Sharing the cost of collecting among 4 mares means each mare "pays" $50 (if we say a collection costs $200). With Feature, for example, 4 doses is 2 shipments for mares, so each mare "pays" $100. So with minis, you can see that the "per mare" cost is a lot higher. Same with frozen, where the price is 3x as much, and the fertility lower than with fresh/cooled. And you, as the stallion owner, still have to convince the mare owner that they should pay enough to cover your expenses, traveling to the breeding farm, the collection, cooling, rental of a container, shipping, and return shipping, PLUS the stud fee. It isn't easy! You have to have a very good stallion, when most mini people rather just go buy their own rather than pay to breed to yours. I wholeheartily agree that AI should play a much larger role in mini breeding. FAR more safe, wider range of genetics, etc etc etc everything you said, KayKay

 

[Farina]

Probably is! You can inseminate a mare reasonably easily with a speculum. But for frozen semen, they like to do deep horn inseminations. Its not THAT much better than standard AI, but it does help. You'd have to have pretty small arms to do a rectally guided deep horn insemination in a miniature.

I think a big part of the issue is the testicular size. Miniatures produce less sperm than a big horse, so things that are more palatable for a big horse who can share expenses for a semen collection among three or four mares, are harder for a mini owner who can only split the costs 1 or 2 ways. Even more applicable for frozen semen. The fee is per collection, not per dose. When you get a lot more doses for your dollar, its more economical. Smaller the sperm yield, the more expensive each dose ends up costing.

In the University Wien they use for educational purposes native Shetland stallions because they are smaller and less dangerous. They have done some studies regarding their semen. You can inseminate as much mares as in the big horses and it is more likely easy to freeze.

The only probem with that woud be that you won't have 3-5 mare owners wanting to get fresh semen at the same time...

In Europe to offer freshor frozen semen you have to meet the requirements of export to get permission to open a "Besamungsstation" (some kind of breeding faciity). All studs have to be in qurantaine. I agree it is more common in Europe and the result may be it i cheaper. But most Besamungstationen only do fresh semen by themselves and hire another lab to do frozen semen in house. The Beamungsstation colect alone and then deliver the semen to the other lab to get it processed.

I don't suggest that every one shall do it themself. But you could join together and use the resources that are there. Of course there are less more Minis than Quarters there are less mares to inseminate. If you use frozen semen the stallion could be collected in winter and show in summer. I have less problems to let my stallion trave then a mare with a 7 days old foal at her side.

And you have to have a great stallion worth the effort. But I feel there is a big market in Europe for semen and for embryos.

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

I agree!

Sperm output is directly tied to the size of the testicles. Horses with more testicular tissue will produce more sperm, and therefore can produce more doses (on average).

 

[kaykay]

I was hoping to update but my friend has a ton of company in for the holiday weekend. I have company coming into today plus hubbys bday party so probably cant update till next week.

 

[Farina]

I agree!

Sperm output is directly tied to the size of the testicles. Horses with more testicular tissue will produce more sperm, and therefore can produce more doses (on average).

Christina Aurich stated in her book "Reproduktionsmedizin beim Pferd" that there are studies showing that size doesn't matterand isn't associated to sperm output.

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

US University studies disagree, and have shown a direct correlation between grams of testicular tissue and predicted sperm output. There are formulas that can predict sperm output based on an ultrasound measurement, and they are pretty accurate.

Fertility isn't hugely effected by testicle size because once you are over the "minimum" output, the extra is just gravy. When breeding one mare at a time live cover, it doesn't matter if you have enough to breed 2 mares or 10, that one is getting all she needs.

This article discusses some of these details. Reproductive Physiology of the Stallion. II. Daily Production and

J ANIM SCI 1974, 39:732-736.

 

[Capall Beag IRL]

just wondering...... has anyone thought of flying in, meeting breeder at airport with sample.

put sample into your checked in luggage (only a small case with a few things in) and return on the very next flight.

by pass customs but mare would have to be in full season and ready immediately when you return.

not the most ethical way but maybe the quickest.....

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

You go to jail if you get caught. And they do catch that kind of thing very often

Plus you have to have a reasonably large container. The only disposable container that is certified to maintain temperature in the baggage compartment is the EST (by Plastilite) and that is approximately 16" wide, 12" tall, and 18" long. And the expense... imagine a last minute round trip cross-atlantic flight. Ugh! I'd imagine that'd be $3000. For that, you could easily do frozen semen the legal way. At least, in small quantities.

 

[Little Hooves]

Something I have noticed in Minis (compared to other breeds) is that very few seem to offer cooled/frozen semen. I have been looking at stallions and if one doesn't wish to ship their mares across the country, one is left with either breeding locally, or purchasing one's own stallion. I wonder why this is in Minis?

Lizzie

Lizzie, my husband and I were considering offering shipped semen with our mini stallion. Indeed, it seems like an economical choice for long distance mares. It's just the registries require an annual fee if you do it, and then there is the added cost of all the supplies. So unless you have several people who demand a cross to your stallion, then it isn't really worth it (and because of all those who end up buying their own stallion, there usually isn't much demand). Maybe if one had a "name brand stallion," they could do it.

 

[Farina]

In ASPC/AMHR it is aonce in a lifetime 100$ fee.

Perhaps some stallion owners considering AI should post here and ask if someone would be interested in AI for their mares. Perhaps one could make a week or so in which the stallion gest collected. With todays Regumate and HcG I don't think there would be a big problem to time the mares...

Friends of mine here in Germany are interested in AI for AMHA/R too.

 

[Letsdunit]

I wouldnt mind a foal from Kay to, he is beautifull !