Boarding issues - feed problem

[suz]

I know a problem with not enough water has been brought up re: boarding problems just recently.

However, I have a problem with the BO deciding how much feed MY horse should be having!

I've made comments previously on how he has such a belly and that he needs to slim down.

Well, a week goes by and I finally get to the barn. Hey, he's looking a bit slimmer - great! I attribute that to a change to a more grassy T&A hay.

Then, I mention how he's looking slimmer to the BO and she tells me that's because she cut his feed in half!! SHE feels he was getting too much and she didn't want him to founder.

Okay - who's horse is this?

I've been round and round with her about this issue and it only creates tension in the barn and a war of words.

I don't know what to do. I have NO other place to move him, yet I don't want him to be deprived of his feed.

He gets Buckeye Grow n Win (which is a ration balancer - so just vitamins and minerals - no calories). I told her that numerous times that this is not a "grain", but just his vitamins - and she won't listen.

He gets the amount that Buckeye recommends - she says it's too much.

Help! What do I do? If there is too much disagreement, she will just ask me to leave, as I've seen her do to others before, and as noted previously, I have no other place to board him!!

I've also noticed yesterday that he has a crease (a little dip in his butt) above his tail. This isn't right, is it?

Thanks

 

[minie812]

Maybe she is trying to "push your buttons" to get you to leave. I would document everything that is going on just in case something happens and I would try to find somewhere else to go if you cannot agree on something cause your little mini is caught in the middle of this

 

[Flaxenacres]

With grow n win they dont need anything besides grass or hay. You were saying he was getting a belly . some of my minis only need a hand full of grow and win. The only ones that need more are the mares with babies and the babies. I am not taking up for your boarding Facility. But Grow N Win is made to be fed with hay or grass and nothing else. Every horse is different and you cannot always go by the recomended feeding amounts. My concern would be is he getting to skinny? I have 11 minis and feed Grow N Win most only get 1/2 cup and all the grass hay they can eat. But I do have some like lactating mares and babies that get 2 or 3 cups. You just have to make sure he isnt getting to skinny. Also I have boarded in the past and have had all the boarding problems, no one takes care of them the way you like them taken care of. Lorie

 

[Marty]

Suz i hate that you are stuck betwen a rock and a hard place.

You must have the patience of a Saint.

In your barnmasters defense, she may see obecity with your horse that you do not see, and with new grass growth on the rise, she could actually be trying to help prevent spring grass founder. But the way she went about it was wrong.

First: people have a lot of trouble understanding Ration Balancers. It is a concept for many that is hard to grasp at first. I have caught my husband going around feeding it to mine also like it was food. He just doesn't get it. He still considered it to be food just because it is something that the horses eat. So I labled the can VITAMINS. Try using that word instead of Ration Balancer and maybe she will finally get it. Tell her she wouldn't give her child a whole bottle of Flintstone vitamins in one day. Put it in terms she can understand.

Also, if she knew so darn much, she would have not cut his feed in half that abruptly. That could have caused him to have hypermeledia and killed him. Print this off for her to read: (This article is located on LB Mini Info pages submitted by our own Dona at Kickapoo)

"HYPERLIPEMIA"...QUICK & DEADLY

Recent events have prompted me to write this article as an "alert" to all Miniature Horse owners about a very serious condition called "Hyperlipemia". I had never heard of this particular malady until just a few months ago when a couple of my friends had Minis come down with this, and came very close to losing them! I have since read of many, many others on the internet who have had experiences with the same condition...and in most cases, the Minis died! In this day & age of e-mail, world-wide web, surfing the net, etc, etc...we are all much more "connected" to people all over the country (not to mention the world!) One lady who was experiencing Hyperlipemia with her Mini mare wanted to learn more...and requested, on line, that others who had similar experiences to please contact her. She was shocked at the number of responses she received. 36 Minis were affected (27 mares & 9 colts/stallions). 13 lived....23 DIED!

Rare condition? I don't think so! Just think of all the people out there that she didn't hear from!

I am not a veterinarian, and this article by no means should be taken as a substitute for your own vet's expertise. This article is just to give everyone a basic understanding of this serious problem, and alert Miniature owners to the symptoms. Call your vet immediately upon suspicion of this condition! Hopefully, other Miniatures will be saved in the future by educating owners how to recognize Hyperlipemia.

"HYPERLIPEMIA"

Hyperlipemia is generally considered a rare occurrence in full-sized horses, but is proving to be otherwise in Miniatures & ponies! This malady usually comes on very suddenly and can be fatal if not diagnosed rapidly and treated very aggressively...

within just a day or so!

The word Hyperlipemia itself means "over-active or excessive fat". For some reason the body calls on its fat reserves and doesn't "turn off" like it normally should. The fat quickly begins entering the bloodstream and overloads the liver, which results in damage to the liver or complete liver failure & death if not treated promptly. Triglyceride levels are high, kidney function poor, low blood sugar & so on.

This seems to be a "stress" induced condition. For any number of reasons, such as foaling or being in late stage pregnancy, excessive weight (although, thin horses can get this also!), colic, transportation, internal parasites, change of diet, etc., etc....the horse gets "depressed" and stops eating. (They are usually not interested in grain, hay, pasture....nothing!) Depression, weakness, staggering or reluctance to move, glassy eyes, edema (lump in front of belly button) are all potential signs to watch for. Mares who have recently foaled or who are lactating appear to be the highest risk group!

When the horse stops eating, it triggers the fat reserves into action & then won't stop unless you get proper treatment & can get the horse eating again. Some horses with this condition may first be diagnosed (in error) with just low blood sugar...but with Hyperlipemia, complete & proper diagnosis followed by IMMEDIATE treatment is imperative if the horse is to live! So, anyone who has a horse who is acting depressed & has stopped eating for more than a day or so, should immediately suspect Hyperlipemia & have their vet run a series of blood tests.

Diagnosis of this condition is through a variety of blood tests. Treatment is to break down the excess fat in the bloodstream and to stop the release of fat from the body tissues. And, it's imperative to get the horse eating again and/or provide nutrition to the horse via I-V feeding. Insulin and glucose are used to keep the body from releasing more fat into the blood stream. Heparin (an angi-coagulant) is used to break down the fat that is already in the bloodstream. Treatments can get exotic depending on how advanced the condition has become and your particular vet's methods. Make no bones about it...Hyperlipemia is most definitely a scary, life-threatening condition that comes on quickly & demands immediate attention to save the horse!

But, as grim as this all sounds...remember that Miniatures are a particularly hardy breed...even when it looks hopeless, don't ever give up! One lady whose pregnant Mini mare "Mundy" came down with this and was tested to have a triglyceride level of 3100, was told that NO horse had ever lived with a triglyceride level over 1200! Well, miracle of miracles...this tough little mare DID make it by the grace of God & several weeks of expert, intensive treatment at the vet's clinic...and of course, the loving dedication of her owner! And to top it off, "Mundy" went on to foal a beautiful, healthy little filly just a couple of weeks after returning home from the clinic! The "toughness" of these little horses never cease to amaze me!

In closing...I believe Hyperlipemia is turning out to be much more common in the Miniature breed than originally thought. I also think that a condition as serious as this warrants further investigation & research to see just how big of a problem this is, and possibly finding ways to reduce the number of horses affected. Losing even one Miniature "friend" is tragic...especially when that friend is yours!

(dedicated to "Mundy" and her "Miracle Filly")

submitted by: Dona Neargarder - Kickapoo Acres Miniature Horses

.

 

[suz]

Thanks for all who have replied.

Does anybody else have any suggestions to get her to understand me???

What would you do in this situation??

thanks

 

[muffntuf]

Can you do his feedings taking that responsibility out of her hands

 

[Fred]

Could you set up his feedings so all she has to do is put the feed in? Might help. I know a lot of clients that do that in boarding barns. Linda

 

[JourneysEnd]

Have you thought about having your vet out and discussing the problem with him/her ? Too fat, too skinny.

Then you could tell the barn manager this is what the vet has prescribed.

 

[suz]

Can you do his feedings taking that responsibility out of her hands

No, I live too far out to do daily feedings. I wish I could though.

Could you set up his feedings so all she has to do is put the feed in? Might help. I know a lot of clients that do that in boarding barns. Linda

Linda,

That's what I do! I put each individual feeding in a yogurt cup with lid and all she has to do is dump it in his bucket.

Yet, she still cuts that about in half....

Believe me, I've tried talking to her about feeding, but she feels she knows what is best. However, it's my horse and who's going to pay for any vet bills?? You know it won't be her!

Again, if I complain too much, she'll boot me out and I have no other alternatives at the moment

Have you thought about having your vet out and discussing the problem with him/her ? Too fat, too skinny.

Then you could tell the barn manager this is what the vet has prescribed.

That's a good idea.

However, if I do that, she'll take offense and that will cause problems and I'll probably get booted. She doesn't like conflict.

 

[Matt73]

I know a problem with not enough water has been brought up re: boarding problems just recently.

However, I have a problem with the BO deciding how much feed MY horse should be having!

I've made comments previously on how he has such a belly and that he needs to slim down.

Well, a week goes by and I finally get to the barn. Hey, he's looking a bit slimmer - great! I attribute that to a change to a more grassy T&A hay.

Then, I mention how he's looking slimmer to the BO and she tells me that's because she cut his feed in half!! SHE feels he was getting too much and she didn't want him to founder.

Okay - who's horse is this?

I've been round and round with her about this issue and it only creates tension in the barn and a war of words.

I don't know what to do. I have NO other place to move him, yet I don't want him to be deprived of his feed.

He gets Buckeye Grow n Win (which is a ration balancer - so just vitamins and minerals - no calories). I told her that numerous times that this is not a "grain", but just his vitamins - and she won't listen.

He gets the amount that Buckeye recommends - she says it's too much.

Help! What do I do? If there is too much disagreement, she will just ask me to leave, as I've seen her do to others before, and as noted previously, I have no other place to board him!!

I've also noticed yesterday that he has a crease (a little dip in his butt) above his tail. This isn't right, is it?

Thanks

Just wanted to say that Gro 'n Win is not just vitamins and minerals with no calories. It has calories along with protein, fats, etc. It's lower in starches and carbs which helps to lessen the chances of laminitis -that's why it's recommended for ponies and minis-. It's not just his vitamins.

 

[Fred]

You will probably have to look for a new barn and probably one with "rough board" which means you will do the bulk of the work but they usually do the feeding but only if it is set up. Years ago I boarded the mare I leased with her foal and the foal developed ephysistis, [inflamed growth plates] and a majorly contracted tendon. The vet diagnosed SPECIFIC feed for mare and foal, and the owner of the barn didn't give them what they needed. I BOUGHT THE FEED SPECIFICALLY and was told that they were getting that but they weren't. I had to wean the colt early as the mares milk got so rich it was making matters worse. Colt was put on TDI, AND I BOUGHT THE FEED. Guess what he was fed?, it wasn't what I bought and it made matters worse. Now understand, the owner of the barn was a personal friend and a licensed RN that I worked with to boot, but no matter what some people always know what is better for your horse, and its ten times worse in a boarding facility. Things straightened out when I brought the colt home but it still ended up that I had to have surgery done on him [and it turned out fine] that may not have happened had the barn owner listened to me! Whenever I have had to board since that time I make sure there is a contract that covers BOTH owner and boarder. Its in the best interest for you, the horse, and the farm owner.

 

[dangerranger]

I had a simular experiance with boarded horses. I would say start now looking for a new boarding facility! If you cant trust people to feed according to your instructions, you need to find another place. WE had an old TB that couldnt take anything but alfalfa. the owner belived that alfalfa was bad for horses. I had to buy it seperatly and keep it in a locked box [ to keep any other animals out of it.] I talked to her about this, two seperate Vets talked to her about this, and still every month with our bill there was some article she had found about how bad alfalfa was for horses. when I came out to deliver hay, I noticed that there was still all of the hay left from the week before! I saw her son feeding and asked him about it and He said she had stoped feeding him alfalfa last week. when I asked her about it she said he was still getting it all along. that night he coliced and died. I will never again board with anyone that cant do something as simple as feed according to my instructions! DR.

 

[Royal Crescent]

I had similar problems when I was trying to get my horses in shape for show season. They did not want to be bothered with mixing what I wanted to condition them, even when I brought everything to them.In the end I took them elsewhere and I am just leasing the space there....I do all the care and feeding. Not perfect but I know what they get each day.

 

[midnight star stables]

You will probably have to look for a new barn and probably one with "rough board" which means you will do the bulk of the work but they usually do the feeding but only if it is set up. Years ago I boarded the mare I leased with her foal and the foal developed ephysistis, [inflamed growth plates] and a majorly contracted tendon. The vet diagnosed SPECIFIC feed for mare and foal, and the owner of the barn didn't give them what they needed. I BOUGHT THE FEED SPECIFICALLY and was told that they were getting that but they weren't. I had to wean the colt early as the mares milk got so rich it was making matters worse. Colt was put on TDI, AND I BOUGHT THE FEED. Guess what he was fed?, it wasn't what I bought and it made matters worse. Now understand, the owner of the barn was a personal friend and a licensed RN that I worked with to boot, but no matter what some people always know what is better for your horse, and its ten times worse in a boarding facility. Things straightened out when I brought the colt home but it still ended up that I had to have surgery done on him [and it turned out fine] that may not have happened had the barn owner listened to me! Whenever I have had to board since that time I make sure there is a contract that covers BOTH owner and boarder. Its in the best interest for you, the horse, and the farm owner.

I had a simular experiance with boarded horses. I would say start now looking for a new boarding facility! If you cant trust people to feed according to your instructions, you need to find another place. WE had an old TB that couldnt take anything but alfalfa. the owner belived that alfalfa was bad for horses. I had to buy it seperatly and keep it in a locked box [ to keep any other animals out of it.] I talked to her about this, two seperate Vets talked to her about this, and still every month with our bill there was some article she had found about how bad alfalfa was for horses. when I came out to deliver hay, I noticed that there was still all of the hay left from the week before! I saw her son feeding and asked him about it and He said she had stoped feeding him alfalfa last week. when I asked her about it she said he was still getting it all along. that night he coliced and died. I will never again board with anyone that cant do something as simple as feed according to my instructions! DR.

Both these stories are so said. I am so sorry.

IMO, Find a new barn or give up. Sounds like you two are going around in circles.

 

[Fred]

You will probably have to look for a new barn and probably one with "rough board" which means you will do the bulk of the work but they usually do the feeding but only if it is set up. Years ago I boarded the mare I leased with her foal and the foal developed ephysistis, [inflamed growth plates] and a majorly contracted tendon. The vet diagnosed SPECIFIC feed for mare and foal, and the owner of the barn didn't give them what they needed. I BOUGHT THE FEED SPECIFICALLY and was told that they were getting that but they weren't. I had to wean the colt early as the mares milk got so rich it was making matters worse. Colt was put on TDI, AND I BOUGHT THE FEED. Guess what he was fed?, it wasn't what I bought and it made matters worse. Now understand, the owner of the barn was a personal friend and a licensed RN that I worked with to boot, but no matter what some people always know what is better for your horse, and its ten times worse in a boarding facility. Things straightened out when I brought the colt home but it still ended up that I had to have surgery done on him [and it turned out fine] that may not have happened had the barn owner listened to me! Whenever I have had to board since that time I make sure there is a contract that covers BOTH owner and boarder. Its in the best interest for you, the horse, and the farm owner.

Both these stories are so said. I am so sorry.

IMO, Find a new barn or give up. Sounds like you two are going around in circles.

Actually you know what is the worst about this? I am a professional farrier, I KNOW feet, legs, and lameness. BUT this person STILL thought she knew better because she was the farm OWNER. I also have a degree in Applied Science for large animals which means I can do vet tech, farm manager, herdsman, etc. and have done so in the past for several farms some of which were pretty well known. Just because they are well known also does not mean they know what they are doing. The last barn I left was because I was lied to and my mare and foal were put out in a pen with NO supervision where it was KNOWN coyotes were watching foals in the area! There was no reason for the mare and foal to be in that pen the owner got in my face and told me she was doing me a "favor", some favor. I left that day and all my horses have been home since. This was a well known farm too! Scope out the place several times unannounced before you commit to a barn and get a farriers and vets opinion of the place. They sometimes see more than most people realize. Because of my job I know which barns I would reccomend in a heartbeat and others I wouldn't put anything in because the people shouldn't have animals. I have clients that frequently ask opinions on who runs a good barn. Linda

 

[maestoso]

When I boarded my Irish Sport Horse, who was not a hard keeper, but not an easy keeper, I wanted him on specific feed. It was better quality than what the barn normally fed, and I knew the feeding routine there to be inconsistent. First I offered to pay extra each month to make up the difference for the feed. That didn't work because they always "forgot" to buy the grain or couldn't get it for one reason or another. Then I bought it myself and brought it to the barn. I monitored the amount and it was clear that my horse was either not getting it at all or not getting the right amounts. Finally what I did was bought tupperware and measured out my own feed and clearly labeled that containers(Valdon PM, Valdon AM,) Finally that did the trick. It worked for both of us. My horse got what I wanted him to get, and all they had to do was dump the container. It also put pressure on them to do it because I could tell if he had been fed it or not, as the container was either full or empty.

Long story, point being, maybe you can buy some tupperware containers and measure it out yourself, label them, and all the barn manager has to do is dump it.

When it comes to feeding, the barn manager needs to feed what the owner wishes, end of story, no questions asked. They collect board fees and in return they provide the care and services but it is NOT their job to make changed or decisions without consulting the owner first.