Buying or "promise" to buy in utero

[LindaL]

Have you ever bought or "promised" to buy a horse in utero before? Did you put a deposit down, have a contract or just wait it out hoping the foal was the sex you were hoping for and a quality baby? How about just telling the dam owner "If it is a filly; let me know and I will snatch her up!" with just a verbal "agreement" between the 2 of you? What if (say you wanted a filly) the filly turned out not to be quite what you were looking for (quality wasn't there) and you really didn't want to buy her...have you ever said "Thanks, but no thanks"?

What about names for the foal...did you let the dam's owner pick out the foal's name using their farm prefix, share the prefix or have an agreement that you got to pick the name using your farm's prefix?

Interested in hearing your experiences with this...

Edited to add: Both "buyers" and "sellers" experiences actually

 

[~Lisa~]

It is done in large horses in some cases personally with a mini or pony I would never do it. First off there are just to many out there to choose from and frankly very few who are that amazing the breed can not go on without them. And then you add into that.. very few IMO who consistently produce something you can count on.

So given that I personally would prefer to purchase a foal on the ground so I can see it and know it is what I am looking for even the best genes can have a mishap when combined

Usually you purchase the foal money exchanging hands prior to birth with only a LFG then no matter the sex- color or conformation it is yours- most places vet bills start for you at moment of birth should anything happen. the advantage to this is say in a proven warmblood or something you are taking a gamble and pretty much know that the foal will be worth something even if not the champion you are hoping for as a riding horse at perhaps a lower level.

Like I said for me to many minis around to be willing to take such a gamble but that is just me.

As a seller I have sold a few foals in utero and as a seller it is very stressful-sure the foal is sold but so many things can go wrong anyway and to think you are dealing with something someone else paid and waited 9 months for well just to much for me

 

[Sue_C.]

Yes, I bought an Appaloosa in utero, back in the early 90's.

I had been wanting a foal by that particular stallion, out of exactly that mare, and figured that was the only way I could EVER afford it. The stud fee alone was $1500, and the mare also belonged to the stallion owner. Even if she were for sale, her price tag would be far more than what I could afford.

I suggested it to the breeder, figuring "what the heck, he can only say no"...and I was offered the foal at less than half what their weanlings went for. Did I EVER luck in. I got a gorgeous well put together chestnut filly (weanling and yearling Futurity winner, second as a two year old, to one of her brothers) with lots of chrome, and a lacy blanket.

Would I do it again? You BET!!!

I paid half up-front, (non-refundable, subject to LFG) with the remainder due before the filly was weaned at four months.

Had it been a solid, or a colt...that would have been my "bad luck", although any foal out of that particular combination was well worth having.

I was also actually the "breeder, as I owned the foal prior to birth, so was allowed to name the filly myself. As the "real" breeder and his horses were so well-known, everyone knew the foal was by thier stallion anyways...LOL! I would never have drempt of putting my farm name to the foal though...I beleive in giving credit where credit was due. I kind of think that naming a foal of someone else's breeding with your own farm name is sort of cheating. Just the way I am...

 

[Katiean]

There was a mare and stud I wanted. Well, I couldn't afford them at the moment they were for sale. So, a friend of mine and I agreed that if my friend bought the mare (she was in foal to the stud I wanted) I would buy the resulting foal for what she paid for the mare. Well, after the foal was born and it was a colt she really didn't want me to buy him because he was a bit big and chunky. I must say he didn't resemble mom or dad. I was still going to buy him because I said I would but she told me I didn't have to. She didn't want me to have 2 33"-34" studs.

 

[Jill]

Personally, I would never fully commit to buying a horse before it was born. I for sure would let a breeder know "please put me on your waiting list for ______ x ______ foal", but no way would I lock myself in.

Look at how many fabulous foals are born each year. When you really take your time and look, you can find the quality, bloodlines, sex, color, everything you want so why lock in an uncertain?

Additionally, think how different you (or your friends) may look from your full siblings. We all know that even full siblings are not duplicates and sometimes not even very similar. You just can never know what will result from a breeding year to year.

 

[Carolyn R]

There is always the option, if a breeder has many horses that interest you, but you would really like the right to first pick on a foal, to ask about using the deposit as a farm creditif the foal isn't what you want.

 

[Sue_C.]

You just can never know what will result from a breeding year to year.

You do your homework.

If that particular cross has been knocking off futurity after futurity, both in halter AND performance, and selling in the high four to middling five digets...it is worth the chance. Then too, in the foal that I bought in-utero, there was only this one mare and her dam (also owned by the breeder) with the bloodlines I wanted in Canada, and it would have cost a lot more to travel around looking all over North America for that same bloodline. Now, with the Internet being such a money saving tool, I would perhaps have an easier time finding what I wanted...but that wouldn't stop the fact that this particular cross was already here...and knocking the socks off any and all competition,...why look any further??

You should certainly be able to know if that breeding is worth the money you are paying...if you don't think you can sell an unsatifactory foal of this cross for as much or more than your purchase price...you haven't chosen well, IMHO. If the stallion and mare doesn't consistantly throw great foals, then of course...that pair isn't going to get someone interested in an in-utero purchase, anyways, so it is a non-issue.

 

[Jill]

It should be fairly obvious that I do "do my homework" and in my opinion, you may know what to hope for out of a cross, but no... you do not really know what you will get

 

[LindaL]

Yes, I do know there are a lot of Minis out there that are very nice for sale.

I, personally, would never commit with money down on a horse in utero (unless I could use it for farm credit later if needed, but I don't have that exra money to just be sitting in someone else's hands waiting...lol

), but as Jill said...putting your name in for a specific foal from a specific cross makes sense.

Sounds like those that have done it; it has worked out and I think that for most people it would, but again..there is a level of uncertainty. I just wondered since I have heard it done before and wanted to see how it actually was done.

(and Erin.....

LOL! )

 

[Tenltraining]

I have sold a few that way, and everything worked out fine. I actually did not take a deposit or anything on the foal, pretty much waited until it was born to be sure they were pleased with the foal first. If they had not been happy with the foal, I would not have forced them to take it. We lucked out and they did too, all of them became national top tens and some top ten at Worlds so both sides were very happy with the deal. It pretty much worked out that they were certain to get the first chance to buy these foals as some here sell very quickly within a week or two of birth.

They were quick to make a decision to take the horses as well, so that was courteous on their side as well.

 

[Minimor]

I think buying a full size horse in utero is much less risky than buying a Mini that way. In the Morgan world it is fairly common for people to buy foals in utero--not something I have done, but I know plenty that have bought or sold that way. The thing is with Morgans, many of the stallions are very prepotent--they are line bred so certain conformation traits have been bred into them, and when you breed to one of those stallions you pretty much know what the foal is going to be like. If a certain mare and stallion have been bred 3 times before, the 3 resulting foals probably look very much alike, and you can be quite sure that the 4th foal is going to be much like its older siblings. You still won't know if you're going to get a colt or filly, but you can be quite confident that you are going to get a certain quality of foal. Of course there are also animals that have a weaker pedigree and are not going to breed true--they would be more of a risk, and are probably not what are going to be of interest to anyone that is thinking of buying in utero.

Minis are quite different. Minis still tend to have very diverse pedigrees, and do not breed true. One foal off a certain cross may be small and very very nice, the next one may be very tall but still nice, the 3rd may not be all that nice at all, be it tall or small. I probably would not buy a Mini in utero, though I might be inclined to tell a breeder that if that mare bred to that stallion has a filly give me first option--In Minis, that's about as far as I would go.

Ponies....with the right ponies, I would be more confident in purchasing in utero. I can think of someone I know that has a very nice stallion that is siring quality foals every time, regardless of which mare he is bred to. But, there again, that stallion has an extremely strong pedigree--like so many of the Morgan stallions I've known, that pony is bred to sire foals of consistant quality--that is what line breeding will do for a sire!! I wouldn't hesitate to purchase an in utero foal that is sired by that particular stallion, but...it seems that breeder can supply enough of a choice of foals that I can buy without having to make any in utero deals and then wait for my foal, I can just pick out what I like! She knows who she is...and anyway, after this latest one--I'm done. Really I am!!

 

[MooreAcres]

...hehehe I know whats going on...hehehe

 

[LindaL]

ERIN!!!!!!

 

[Joanne]

Ohhh I am sooo into Murphy's Law.

If I had a deposit the mare would abort it or have a dwarf.

If I took a deposit, it would have a foal I would have kept.

No. I like things the old fashion way.

See them, then decide!

 

[Ellen]

All I have to say is I am with Joanne. It is just too risky. But I guess thats from years of it can happen, it will and always to me!!!

Can I ask what you feel about foal in exchange for breed back?

 

[RockinSMiniature]

If someone want a foal out of our miniatures. I wouldn't let them send me deposit yet until the foal is born or a month old. It will be never know what it will be as colt or filly or something happened..

I prefer to wait for the foal to be a month old and make sure everything is healthly before deposit on the foal as will never know what happened and they sent the money and the new owner will be heartbroken and then have to start all over again.

As if I want a colt or a filly, I will ask them if it is poss. to be on the mares (more than 1 mares) on the waiting list and wait and see and it might be thrilled foals..

I used to be a breeder for Rat Terriers and I always have waiting list on my litters.

I don't let them send me deposit until the puppies are few days old or a week old.

Also I always keep the list in order as for females and males.

So now, our ratties are retired and be happy pets for us!..

Sometime they wish they can get another litters from us..

I will do the same thing with our minaitures if I have a waiting list.

 

[Lisa Strass]

I haven't bought or sold in utero, and I have no plans to. I have a waitlist for my double registered foals, and have some specific requests of Horse A x Horse B. I don't let those specific requests guide my program, but often they are crosses I have planned anyway. I want my customers to be happy with the horse they purchase... In other words, I want to see them with that horse winning in the show ring!

I think everybody is potentially happier to agree on a price once the foal is born, but then again I'm not a gambler by nature.