Conformation faults in the breed.

[Lizzie]

I wonder what the membership thinks are the most prevalent conformation faults in the breed today? For the last week I've been stuck in my chair with my back out, so had an opportunity to look at hundreds of Minis on the net. Something I've seen over and over again, is lack of rear angulation (posty legged) and a short hip. (Lack of length from point of hip to point of buttock) These two problems often seem to go hand in hand in many horses I've seen. This would have to also limit their action severely.

While heads differ, I think overall in the breed, they are pretty good. Same with necks, shoulders and fronts. A few long backs maybe, but comparitively few. It was certainly the rears which constantly gained my attention. I often saw a wondeful horse up-front, only to be spoiled by a poor hindquarter. Has anyone else noticed this?

Lizzie

 

[cretahillsgal]

Short, bad hips are the #1 fault that I "see". But poor slope to the shoulder seems to be a close 2nd.

Its something that I struggle with in my herd and the first thing that will jump out at me when I look at a horse.

 

[ohmt]

I agree but also have to say narrow chests and too much length in the body compared to leg and neck length (this is especially a problem in the apoaloosas).

 

[Katiean]

I think the perfect miniature horse is one that you can take away from anything that will define it's size and you can not tell if it is a big horse or a mini.

 

[Riverrose28]

There are two faluts that bother me, one is short legs, the other is a neck that looks like it ties in between the front legs. when I look at a mini I want to think I'm looking at a horse, not a squatty pony. Case in point, I have a picture over my mantle of one of my mini's and everyone that sees it says, thats a great picture of one of your arabs.

 

[Loess Hills]

Miniature horses are a relatively young breed that is still evolving. What Riverrose 28 stated is especially true.........short legs, a neck that ties in low, and overall stockiness like a quarter horse are some of the main conformation faults that one sees over and over.

 

The most prevalent trend today in miniatures is the emphasis on overall refinement. And this is a good thing! No they are not all miniature Arabians, but some of the most well known breeders are getting there.

 

[ohmt]

Loess Hills-that is true, but I have lately been seeing TOO much refinement. Refined with substance is good. Refinement to the point of being useless except for looking refined is not. It is amazing how far miniatures have come though, especially in the past few years.

 

[Riverrose28]

Just to clarify my response, I too have quarter horse type minis, and arab type minis, they both have good qualities. I was just saying I don't like the ones that the neck ties in under the chest and with really short legs. It's just my opinion and everyone is entitled to an opinion on the question asked. I have a stallion that looks just like a mini quarter horse, love him, he gives me those great driving types with a strong rear end and plenty of leg. The question asked was what conformation faults.......? Please people don't get upset and flame each other for their opinion of a question asked.

 

[Lizzie]

Considering all the previous posts, but isn't a Mini supposed to look like a full sized horse in miniature? I see nowhere where it says they should look like one full size breed or another.

I must agree, that I don't like short legged, long backed little Minis. Regardless of what a given horse might look like, everything must and should be, in proportion. To me, it must appear as a 'square' picture. Certainly many are appearing as more of an Arabian in miniature. Is this the way the breed is heading maybe?

Do you think judging is heading that way?

Lizzie

 

[Minimor]

Definitely poor rear ends. The biggest problems with the rear ends is length of hip....so many Minis simply don’t have any length of hip...and straight, weak stifles.

Many Minis are lacking in shoulder conformation as well—for anyone wanting good movement a long, well laid back shoulder is a must have, but many Minis do lack the angulation that I like to see—and length of shoulder is often not as good as it could be either. Some are just very bulky through the shoulder area—they have heavy front ends and are very slack in the rear.

I think the short legged/long bodied issue is less prevalent now than it was, say, 10 years ago. I think a large majority of people are trying to breed for the longer legged, more horse proportioned Miniature, but some are more successful at it than others.

Then there are the finer details—in the Mini world I never hear anyone talk about things such as round bone, or meaty hocks, and yet these things....faults....exist in the Miniatures!

 

[RhineStone]

Certainly many are appearing as more of an Arabian in miniature. Is this the way the breed is heading maybe?

One of my concerns with this trend is that they are getting too fine to DO anything. Some of these little lightweight twigs couldn't pull a vehicle if they were baited with a carrot! What is the point of having a breed where the only thing you can do with them is look at them?

I'll take a more structural horse anyday who I don't have to worry as much about overfacing.

 

[Minimor]

One thing--and I should have added this into my post above but forgot until after I'd posted--to keep in mind--fine bone isn't necessarily weaker than heavy bone. Sometimes a horse that appears thick & stocky is in truth "coarse", with coarse bone. Coarse bone is more porous, meaning it is less dense, and therefore it is weaker. A horse that appears more fine legged may have very dense bone--and therefore those fine legs are actually very strong--stronger than the horse that appears to be heavier boned with thicker legs. This is something not generally recognized by Miniature owners/breeders.

Coarse bone is another fault that is found often enough in Minis.

 

[Matt73]

Short, bad hips are the #1 fault that I "see". But poor slope to the shoulder seems to be a close 2nd.

Its something that I struggle with in my herd and the first thing that will jump out at me when I look at a horse.

I agree. A straight shoulder and bad hip are prevalent. Big, square heads too, with short thick necks. Necks that tie in low (no chest). "Downhill" (butt-high). Luckily mine are perfect

 

[kaykay]

So many confuse "type" with "conformation" I keep saying they are two totally different things.

You can have a quarter horse "type" mini with great conformation.

You can have a more arab "type" mini with bad conformation.

They used to also list thoroughbred type way back.

Small poor hips which leads to upward fixation of the patella (locking stifles) huge issues because people make excuses for the horse and keep breeding it. Too many still think its not inherited.

Many people adore and breed for the quarter type or foundation miniature. Its too bad we cant add it as I think it would get more people showing. But then again we are struggling with the foundation division in ponies so its not the answer many hope that it is.

We still have some judges that will pick a better conformed quarter type mini over a more fine boned one. Not as many but there are still a couple of them out there.

 

[AnnaC]

Very interesting subject! My personal preference is for the more substantial mini (not necessarily meaning heavyweight type). Being in the UK (and somewhat behind the breeding programmes of the US) most of my foundation stock are British mini Sheltands. From them we have tried to breed for a little more refinement/quality, but still keeping a general picture of a horse capable of doing a 'job'. Trouble is that one cant choose the sex of a foal, and while I hope that the boys will be more refined, I require the girls to have the substance/room/maybe a slightly longer back to be able to comfortably carry and give birth to future foals.

I do agree that one is seeing some very refined minis being bred - too refined in my opinion - where the back ends particularly are very poor. I would not like to see some of these fillies/mares try to give birth!

But there are a great many folk out there breeding good animals of superb quality, and long may they continue!

 

[JMS Miniatures]

Bad hips which can lead to bad stifles and crooked legs. Stifle problems are very prone to miniature horses and people need to be more educated when it comes to that. I can live with bad heads, thick necks, etc... but your horse has to have good legs.

 

[MindyLee]

I have to say for me, this is a perfect example of what I look for in a mini horse! She has a nice round hip, length in neck, back, and legs, Nice head and great shoulders. All wrapped up in a 34" on the dot body!

 

[lucky lodge]

In australia we call the quarter horse type miniature pony

And the more refined type like the arab a miniature horse

Is that the same were you are??????

 

[targetsmom]

I would have to agree with those who say poor rear ends (hips, hind legs) and I see the leg issues even at the highest levels of showing. It amazes me that nearly everyone can see and agree on what a nice neck should look like, but that so many people seem to not recognize correct conformation in hind legs, especially hocks and stifles. And that those parts, being structural (i.e. bone) are really a lot more important for the horse than a nice "hooky" neck. But again, you can only get the nice pretty neck if the shoulder is nicely laid back (structure again). I don't know how many people commented on Max's baby picture with "wow look at that neck" when the real experts said "wow, look at that SHOULDER".

 

[Lizzie]

Ah Targetsmom, this is what I want to see in foals! Certainly a lovely head, neck and shoulder, but wonerful rear angulation, super topline. great tailset and fab bone. I gather you lost this boy later in life. So sorry to have read that. It was a breeding worth repeating. I hope you did.

Lizzie