Conformation questions on my new girl!

[Blackwater Farm]

I have been meaning to post pictures of her but I wanted to wait until I cleaned her up a bit! I just got this girl about two weeks ago, she is the only daughter of my Blue Boy who is now gelded. It was really a senti-"mental" buy because Blue Boy is so special to me and I told the lady I sold the mare to that if she was found to be in foal that I would buy the baby back from her. I was thinking of taking her to a few local shows this year but I had a few questions about her first. She is almost 11 months old and she is the first yearling I have ever owned. I like to think I know my conformation pretty well but I have heard that yearlings can have an "ugly duckling" stage. I want to think that conformation is conformation but I will see what ya'll think. I have some pictures that I will post for you. To me she looks cowhocked and her front pasterns look a little long. I really want to say I know she's cowhocked as her back toes turn out pretty good, it's not as bad as some horses I have seen but not good either. She also looks a little downhill to me but I have been told that that can be a yearling thing. But then again I have seen some yearlings that are absolutely gorgeous! The picture of her from the front is kinda weird because it was windy and it was blowing right at her and she wouldnt hold still, the pic makes her front legs not look straight but they are, my question about her front is her chest, it looks really narrow to me but I cant seem to find any good pics of a yearling front end for comparison! Just so everyone knows this mare will never be bred, I have no interest in passing any of these qualities on, I am all for improvement of the breed! Like I said before she will only be used in a couple local shows, I want her to have the experience and I want the experience of training and showing for myself as well. She is a very sweet and very smart little girl that tries her heart out for you, her daddy is the same way! Also dont mind the belly she just got wormed today, I double dosed her per my vet and I think that will take care of some of that! Her last owner didnt really give her the care or attention or nutrition for that matter that she really needed in her first year. This is my first yearling ya'll and I will take all the advice I can get! Thanks!

 

[Riverrose28]

I don't see any thing wrong with this filly! Her chest doesn't look to narrow to me, she just looks a little big in the belly, but that is easy to fix. As for being slightly cow hocked, you look for that in a driving horse, have your farrier work on that she is still young. Also teach her to allow you to push her hocks out when standing still. I think she is very pretty, congratulations

 

[Jill]

I think as she builds up muscles and matures, things will straighten out

She's a pretty girl

 

[kaykay]

First off she is adorable.

She is cowhocked.

She is very narrow chested. You can really see this when you look at the picture of her from behind and the two front legs are inside the two back legs.

Her front pasterns look a little coon footed but hard to tell with the feathers.

Yearlings change a lot. I do think with better feed and some maturity the chest will get better. I think she will always be cowhocked, but as faults go that is for sure one of the lessor faults.

Also appears to have a low tail set but that will look better when she is clipped and standing square.

 

[mizbeth]

Hi

I am not able to see much of her in these photos, but she does appear butt high. With good feed, body clip and maturity she can/will change a lot. Hard to see much of her with all that hair, but I do agree with the others on some of the comments - based on these photos.

 

[targetsmom]

Remember that no horse has perfect conformation and if what you want is to have fun showing, you should have no trouble doing that. Do you think all big horses in the show ring have perfect conformation??

Your filly looks very sweet and cute. I agree with Kay that she is a bit narrow in the chest, is cow-hocked, and might be coon footed. I have seen worse being shown in major shows... a lot is knowing how to set them up to disguise flaws. (like pushing out the cow hocks so they appear correct). And the narrow chest won't be noticeable from the side where a lot of judging is done.

Are there any Pinto shows in your area? If she were mine I would get her registered with Pinto and go to those shows. You could show her in halter obstacle (trail) as a yearling, and in showmanship - against the big horses if they don't have showmanship for minis - and even earn money in the Pinto Pays program(www.pinto.org for all info). And she would be very competitive in color! Good luck with her.

 

[Joanne]

Horses grow up, then get their width.

At 11 months old I agree with Jill that she will broaden her chest and hips as she matures. You see the stance this filly has in refined foals. The more Quarter horse type are broader from birth, but the more refined horses take longer to get their mature bodies.

Your farrier will concentrate on a balanced foot and her feet will be fine.

In full winter coat and just tied up for a photo it is hard to give you a great assessment. Just enjoy her for now, feed her and care for her, and when you clip her out in a few months take a look at her then.

 

[hobbyhorse23]

As for being slightly cow hocked, you look for that in a driving horse, have your farrier work on that she is still young.

In the sort of so-called "cowhocks" that are correct and useful for driving, the cannon bones should still be parallel from hock to pastern when viewed from the rear. IMO it isn't so much that true cowhocks are desirable for driving as that having the hocks turn inward is far less of a flaw for work than having them rotate outwards. What we'd like to see is a horse who is built so their hind legs are set nicely under each hind quarter, the hocks are angled naturally in although the leg is straight up and down, and when the horse steps off the leg is swung up and inward on a matching plane with the stifle to allow it to swing forward towards the ribcage with agility and ease.

This filly is definitely cowhocked but how badly remains to be seen. With some corrective trimming and growth to broaden her out it may not be as bad as it appears now. She's certainly a darling filly otherwise! That narrow chest doesn't worry me particularly as I've seen far worse broaden out with proper training even in adult horses. She'll never have an outstanding chest but she's not going to spend the rest of her life looking like her legs come out of the same hole either.

She may possibly be a bit rump high when she's older but most likely it's a yearling thing. Pictures of her sire and dam and of her as a few-day old baby would help in judging that. I love her blue eye and it looks like she has a nice head. Can't wait to see her cleaned up in a few months!

Leia

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I would agree she is very narrow and I do not think she has a big belly, PLEASE do not even think of dieting her, she needs to put on weight, not lose it!

She is also cow hocked, and I do not think in a good way, and I do not think driving horses should be anything except well conformed- I do actually think this "cow hocked = driving" thing is another self perpetuating myth, bad conformation is bad conformation.

Right having said all the bad stuff, she is a yearling there is every chance that, with some really good grub inside her and a good worming programme + a light exercise schedule and a good farrier, you will see wonders happen.

If she suits you and you are happy with her then anything that gets better is just a bonus, right?

The best Arab mare I ever owned had a set of hocks, when she was a short yearling that, had I given her a ball of wool, she could have knitted me a sweater!

By the time she was a made up four year old you would not have known her- she could jump better than all the "big boys" (she was 14 hands 2 ins-) and regularly cleared 4ft 6ins, so no weak hocks there.

Feed her, love her, and watch her grow, she is a pretty girl, for all she has faults.

There has never yet been a perfect horse, only perfect for you.

KayKay- would you explain "coon footed" for those that do not know the term???

 

[Blackwater Farm]

Thanks so much you guys for your comments! I am sighing a HUGE sigh of relief right now! I had my farrier out last week and he took a pretty good amount off her toes, they were really long! I have ordered her a blanket as our first show is March 19th and I need to get clipping here shortly! The weather is warming up pretty nice here anyway. I will post better pics of her then too, plus I didnt have anyone with me to hold her so I had to tie her up! I am going to check into registering her with Pinto Association and seeing if there are any shows around here. I know one of you mentioned that there may be ways that I can disguise her flaws a bit while in the ring, any tips on that?

 

[supaspot]

KayKay- would you explain "coon footed" for those that do not know the term???

I was just about to ask that !

I think the narrow chest will resolve itself with maturity and gentle exercise , as for the cowhocks that will also improve somewhat as she muscles up but she will always be cowhocked , she does need a good farrier , was she back end high at birth ? if she was level then she will probably finish level ,its not unusual to see that in yearlings on the plus side shes a pretty filly and Ive seen far worse in the showring , take her out and have fun

 

[susanne]

Not to say that this will be true of your filly, but I have two Shetland-esque minis who were quite cow-hocked (worse than yours) as youngsters, but who now have straight hind legs. One had been neglected and underfed before coming to us, whereas the other received excellent care and feeding and had a pasture in which to run.

 

[AnnaC]

She looks like a real sweetie and I think you will have a lot of fun with her in the future. Yes she may be a bit narrow in front right now, and butt high (quite normal with yearlings IMO) and cow hocked. But all these things can, and most probably will, improve with age and maturity.

Firstly you need to get her on to a good feed programme to help her development from now on. When you do get round to clipping her out, if she doesn't look to be in that good a condition, then I would try to find a later show for her - travelling and the exitement of a first show can take a lot out of a baby (even making it easier for them to pick up a bug or two) and you dont need her to take a back step in her development. You have the whole of her future in front of you, so no need to rush into anything.

As an example - I have a 34" Shetland mare here who is typically a British Shetland, but not that heavy and with a good length of neck and a sensible back length for a brood mare, in fact she has the conformation that is more or less 100% for her type. she is coming 9 years old. Four years ago this coming Spring she produced a filly - gorgeous, jet black, just like her Mother - we were thrilled. A year later this filly 'fell apart' - short necked, narrow front, very short back, butt up to sky level, narrow behind, but resonably straight - what a disappointment LOL!! Anyway we sort of 'forgot' about her and apart from foot trimming, worming and general fussing/loving, and she just ran out with the mare herd. Then just last week and arguement erupted in the family as we went out to the field to chat with the mares - we couldn't decide out of these two black mares which was the Mum and which was the filly!! Yes the filly had changed and matured into a replica of her Mum - in the end I looked at their teeth to confirm which was which LOL!!

So there is every chance that your sweet filly will change beyond belief and really suprise you when she matures - I hope you get the same WOW! that we have just done!

Good luck with your shows and above all, have fun!

Anna

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Then just last week and arguement erupted in the family as we went out to the field to chat with the mares - we couldn't decide out of these two black mares which was the Mum and which was the filly!! Yes the filly had changed and matured into a replica of her Mum - in the end I looked at their teeth to confirm which was which LOL!!

Anna- sounds like you and Kathy need to start looking at pair equipment!

Leia

 

[Sue_C.]

In the sort of so-called "cowhocks" that are correct and useful for driving, the cannon bones should still be parallel from hock to pastern when viewed from the rear. IMO it isn't so much that true cowhocks are desirable for driving as that having the hocks turn inward is far less of a flaw for work than having them rotate outwards. What we'd like to see is a horse who is built so their hind legs are set nicely under each hind quarter, the hocks are angled naturally in although the leg is straight up and down, and when the horse steps off the leg is swung up and inward on a matching plane with the stifle to allow it to swing forward towards the ribcage with agility and ease.

Yes, cow-hocked is a term commonly misconstrued as close-set hocks...but they are NOT the same thing at all. Cow-hocks are as seen here, the hocks closer to each other than the pasterns...close-set hocks, are what the draught folks are particularly interested in producing. In this, the hocks and pasterns are the same distance from each other, but the legs are straight.

 

[MiLo Minis]

I wouldn't call this filly coon-footed except perhaps on the right front a bit but hard to tell from the photos. I would say that her heels on the front are underun and she needed a fair bit of toe taken off but from the sound of it your farrier has already seen to that. She is slightly basewide on the front and toes out on the back. I wouldn't look twice at a yearling that wasn't put together like that because as she matures and puts on muscle between her legs if she wasn't built the way she is she would end up toeing in front and back. She is slightly cowhocked on the back and likely always will be but it isn't severe enough to cause her any difficulties I wouldn't think. A horse MUST toe out slightly on the back even when mature or it won't travel properly and will interfere at a trot. It is when a line drawn through her buttocks straight through to her hock takes a bender outwards to get through the cannon to the fetlock that you say they are cowhocked not when the entire leg turns slightly outward. If you compare her two front legs you can see that the right front toes out from the fetlock on down whereas on the left front she is straight through her leg and yet still toes out. The left front will straighten with muscling and the right front will be somewhat corrected with muscling and good trimming but will always need that outside front quarter trimmed to keep her as correct as possible. I think a clipping will help a great deal with the butt high look as will some growing. She is not a top halter horse but pretty enough and none of her flaws are horrible. This horse is in a stage of high growth and needs a little more protein than she has been getting hence the potty belly look along with a little extra fluff at this time of year. I would up her protein intake some and wait to clip her and see what you really have.

 

[kaykay]

I get a little frustrated with conformation posts as people seem to think that giving an honest opinion = being mean. We used to do these a lot on LB but too many people get offended.

Like Rabbit said, we tend to excuse too much and say its due to trimming or due to whatever, when its actually just what it looks like-- a conformation fault.

I have always said there are no perfect horses and every horse has a job. But you have to be able to look at horse and see the faults. Especially if you breed or show. Many cowhocked yearlings become cowhocked 6 year olds. Sometimes they straighten, many do not. It just is what it is. I would much rather have a cowhocked horse than a sickle hocked horse.

The thing is for example with a cowhocked horse: the BONE is crooked. So while you can make them look better with trimming (just like a club hoof can look better until it grows back out) it is still a cowhocked horse because the bone is crooked.

I would rate this filly as mildly cowhocked (as opposed to severely where the hocks touch)

Heres a good diagram of coon footed

coon footed

Like I said its hard to tell as her feathers are covering some of the pastern but its a definite possibility. And I would say since the owner sees her everyday and noticed it, she very well could be coonfooted.

I tear my own horses up more than anyone else could so I apply the same things to myself.

 

[dreaminmini]

I am not sure I read anything that could be construed as mean...everyone sounded constructive and helpful.

As for the filly, I am no conformation expert but I would allow her to mature another year before passing a lot of judgement. We have 3 minis and bought them at various younger ages, one as a yearling, one as a two year old and one as a three year old. I have watched them undergo many changes as they matured and became fitter with training. The younger ones did appear a little narrower in the chest but have filled out nicely. She does look a little cowhocked but I would wait to see what happens as she matures and keep her trimmed properly. Good luck with her. Show her and have fun with her. There is always performance classes to enjoy if she isn't as successful in the halter ring.

 

[Riverdance]

I have to agree with KayKay. It is hard to give conformation advise without people getting upset.

but, here I go...

She has a nice short back but she has no rear/ hip. She is narrow in both the front and the rear, but she is only a yearling. Hips will spread as she gets older which will help with the cowhock look. I do not think that the front will get all that broad when she matures though and in this picture she is toed out. She is very heavy in the shoulder and her neck comes out from between her chest, which gives the loaded shoulder look. She also has a straight shoulder.

Hopefully you do not take offense to this, but the only way to learn, is if someone gives you an honest answer.

I would like to see her when she is clipped, it will give one a better idea of what she will look like. Hairy horses can give some illusions.

You should still have fun showing her and learning how to show and learning about conformation as you show. As you go along and ask more question, you will be able to see some of the faults in yours and others horses.

Saying that, no horse is perfect and as breeders we try to correct the faults of our horses. I can easily tear apart every one of my horses and do. Always striving to breed better.

Good luck with her and have some fun.

 

[susanne]

I'm with dreaminmini -- I saw no offense taken, only people other than the OP discussing various perspectives on what exactly "cow-hocked" means. I've found it to be one of the more interesting discussions of late. Somebody disagreeing (or discussing different takes on the issue) with your critique is not the same as taking offense.

Whether asking for or giving a critique, one must be prepared for varying opinions.