Disapointed in this rescue

[liltnt]

They added a statement on the site so people saying something has been brought to their attention.

but in reading their reference information it says a 1000 lbs horse can carry 200 lbs. Are they saying that horse weights 500? because there is no way that child weighs less than 100.

That is disgraceful

 

[Minimor]

Yep, I just got a reply. She quoted the addy of that size/weight ratio site, and said she'd had one apology from someone.

I wrote back & told her not to be expecting an apology from me. Nothing wrong with the site she quotes, but she's kind of being liberal with how it applies to justify that kid riding that little mare. There's something about watching for a hollow back, and obviously she overlooked that part--or maybe a back that's dropped down so low doesn't count as "hollow" any more?

And of course 10 years of rescuing horses makes her above reproach. Or not....

I do think that weight ratio page should include the "mini" rule of thumb about the rider's butt not being bigger than the horse's....

 

[Triggy&Blue&Daisy Too]

WHOA ALL OF YOU!!!! What is disgraceful is this vigilantism that is becoming a norm in this group. What ticks me off is that once again the forum police have exceeded their authority where actually none exists.

: You all have become judge, jury and executioner from a few pictures! I don't like what I saw either and might have written to them to persuade a change because i know and love minis. Why bother now, the damage is done. So they remove the pictures? Nothing has changed other than LBs reputation goes a notch lower. If they don't agree no one can make them or anyone do a thing.

It's one thing for someone to come here asking for advice and get an earful but no one has the right to go out searching for someone's character to assasinate. No one came here asking any of you for advice, permission or even your opinion! It's even disingrateing into innuendo and implication about the validity of the organization further besmirching their reputation with absolutely no real facts. You may be outraged and disagree with what is going on even write to the person to try to help them understand but these group attacks by LB members has got to stop and another way be found to win people over to a better way. Would any of you like us to come and do a critique on the horses you post on your website and tell you our opinions about them and scrutinze your reason to breed them in the first place if we don't agree with your choices? After all, breeders of any species are one of the biggest reasons rescue organizations even have to exist!

:

We had a discussion lately about the word "notorious." Well that is how this forum is becoming known. I used to be proud to be a forum member here but lately this place is going to the dogs. Don't the mods see anythng wrong with this picture? :no:

 

[kaykay]

i understand what you are saying i really do. but on the other hand i would take this group of wonderful forum people ANYDAY!! Yes we are all passionate about these horses and I prefer it that way! I will never be ashamed of the people here caring about what happens to our beloved miniatures. These people you are ashamed of are the same ones that enabled CMHR to start. And the same ones that RUN to help fellow forum members wether it be a barn fire or losing a family member.

Also Im not going into details but like i said there have been more then this picture come up on the rescue forum. This is why I told people months ago *when this came up before on cmhr forum*that CMHR would not be associated or promote this rescue. Its more then just this time.

And from what I have seen written here, the emails were not viscous or out of line?? Unless something was sent that I dont know about?

Anyway I love our forum members and their passion and their caring!!

 

[Magnolia_dream]

i understand where yur coming from, but if you were that horse i'm sure that you would not enjoy that! obviously that child has ridden her before or that woman wouldn't have a had a defense ready for an e-mail about it.i'm not trying to mke trouble i just feel for that poor little pony and i don't think that should continue

 

[iluvwalkers]

The mare is not that big.

I have sent them a (not so polite, sorry) e-mail, giving my place of residence (just in case they thought only Americans looked at their website) and also telling them their "blue roan" is a Silver Black!!!!

SAW THAT ONE COMING

 

[Dream]

Note that her "reference site" is for Icelandic horses...a breed that is renowned for its ability to carry A LOT of weight for its size. Totally irrelevant in the Mini's case.

 

[jleonard]

I agree that a kid that big should no way be riding a mini. I feel awful for the horse, and the people responsible should be contacted about it. However, I don't think sending rude or accusing e-mails is the right way to do it. IMO, when you accuse someone of doing something wrong, they only get defensive, and you get no where in the argument. Maybe these people are just ignorant about minis and need to be educated in what the proper weight limits are. I would think it would be obvious that the horse is much to small, and that if they have been around horses as long as they say, they should have to common sense to see that the child is much to large for the horse, but I think that a polite and to the point e-mail, that lays out the facts would be the best way to get their attention. I love this site, and the people on here, and I understand how passionate everyone can be when it comes to these great little horses, but sometimes I think we need to take a deep breath and control the passion a bit in order to help people to better understand the miniature breed.(please don't bite my head off! )

 

[GMAMINIS]

I agree that a kid that big should no way be riding a mini. I feel awful for the horse, and the people responsible should be contacted about it. However, I don't think sending rude or accusing e-mails is the right way to do it. IMO, when you accuse someone of doing something wrong, they only get defensive, and you get no where in the argument. Maybe these people are just ignorant about minis and need to be educated in what the proper weight limits are. I would think it would be obvious that the horse is much to small, and that if they have been around horses as long as they say, they should have to common sense to see that the child is much to large for the horse, but I think that a polite and to the point e-mail, that lays out the facts would be the best way to get their attention. I love this site, and the people on here, and I understand how passionate everyone can be when it comes to these great little horses, but sometimes I think we need to take a deep breath and control the passion a bit in order to help people to better understand the miniature breed.(please don't bite my head off! )

I AGREE!!! I THOUGHT FORUMS WERE TO SHARE INFO ON MINIS AND HELP THOSE PEOPLE WHO NEED HELP EVEN IF IT IS PRETTY OBVIOUS, SUCH AS A CASE LIKE THIS. THIS IS MY FIRST POST AND I READ ALOT OF GOOD INFO ON THIS SITE, BUT I ALSO SEE ALOT OF NEGATIVITY. HOPEFULLY THEY HAVE A BETTER UNDERSTANDING FROM THOSE WHO SENT THEM A POLITE EMAIL LIKE MYSELF.

 

[Rachel]

Sad in more ways than one - sad for the little mare in question and sad for these petty arguments that seem to be occuring more and more frequently around here

 

[capall beag]

I have to say having read and reread this thread and having checked and rechecked the 'Rescue' pictures. I find it extremely odd and unusual for a "Rescue" that has been set up to save horses from cruel and unfair treatment would have such pictures on their site.

It is just plain stupid, extremely stupid.

That child does not belong on that pony or any pony/mini that size she is too big and it would be most uncomfortable if not painful for her to be doing so.

Any one who looks at that picture can see she is way too big.

I am wondering why on earth they plonked her on the poor pony.........is it to prove how strong the pony is? Or that a big kid can sit on her?? Surely the written information that the pony is broke to ride would be sufficient.

I have volunteered with a variety of rescues for years and I find this odd, plain and simple.

The only thing I think when I look at those photos is "Poor little pony, I hope someone rescues her from that!" because it looks terribly uncomfortable.

When you are a "Rescue" you need to be much better than the average person, it is a huge responsibility to take on the job of rescuing animals and therefore you are going to be under even more scrutiny than the average person.

All I can say is "What are they thinking, talking photos like that and putting them on their site????"

I think it is

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Maybe they are a well intended resuce and maybe not but they are not very smart........IMO

 

[Rachel]

I agree with this "rescue" operation seeming a *little* off. Something's fishy if you ask me...

 

[Jacquee']

You know, I think Triggy has a point here.

A while back I helped a vet to help a group of horses that were being starved to death. The vet sat me down before we went on this place, and told me, "Look - I know you will want to chew this guy out for being a creep, but DON'T SAY ANYTHING!!! If you alienate him, I won't be able to go there anymore and help the horses. He will totally shut me out.". Well. I could see her point, but let me tell you it was hard not to beat the cr@p out of of this guy when I saw the shape those horses were in. However I did what the vet said and kept my mouth shut. She, bless her heart, spent HOURS educating this guy (who was probably not firing on all cylinders) and believe it or not, she helped to improve the conditions for those horses. In fact those horses are all in new homes now, and it was all because of her diplomacy.

That taught me a great lesson. I really doubt the woman who runs this rescue actually wants to torture her minis. Yet, if she is jumped all over and shamed, she might just keep doing it out of defiance. The best way really is through kindness and education. That is what helps the HORSES. And let's face it - that is the whole point! Scoring points and feeling righteous about chewing someone out is all very well, but if at the end of the day the horse is still in the same bad situation, it did not accomplish much except make us feel superior. Sometimes it is better to swallow one's pride and just be a plain old educator.

And believe me, if the horse could thank you for that, she would.

 

[Triggy&Blue&Daisy Too]

i understand what you are saying i really do. but on the other hand i would take this group of wonderful forum people ANYDAY!! Yes we are all passionate about these horses and I prefer it that way! I will never be ashamed of the people here caring about what happens to our beloved miniatures. These people you are ashamed of are the same ones that enabled CMHR to start. And the same ones that RUN to help fellow forum members wether it be a barn fire or losing a family member.

Also Im not going into details but like i said there have been more then this picture come up on the rescue forum. This is why I told people months ago *when this came up before on cmhr forum*that CMHR would not be associated or promote this rescue. Its more then just this time.

And from what I have seen written here, the emails were not viscous or out of line?? Unless something was sent that I dont know about?

Anyway I love our forum members and their passion and their caring!!

Kaykay, I went for a long trail ride this evening on my Daisy girl to really think about this. I too love our forum members and the way they can pull together and accomplish things unimaginable elsewhere. But just because they can and do good for others does NOT excuse this kind of thing. If people want to put their outrage to a great use there is a name and address on the Back Porch for the DA that will be handling Marty's son's case to let him know how horribly unfair it is that the murderer probably will only get a short jail term for what he's done.

Let's not forget rumors can get out of hand and your accusations against that organization has no business here or anywhere else unless you can back it up with facts. Maybe it would be good to remember how you felt when you thought an errant thread was aimed at you when your horse coliced about how it was thought that people with coliced horses sure seem to have a lot of them or something to that effect. You were only trying to do the best you could with what you had, probably much like the woman who at this point seems to still be trying to respond politely to some of these assaults. Unless we get that poor child, whose been called everything from fat to stupid here, on a scale and weigh that mini too there is not a single one of you that can do any kind of weight bearing ratio with an iota of accuracy.

That's all from me on this folks.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

The thing is, in this case, none of this is based on "rumour" it is based on our own personal take based on what we saw and how we reacted to what we saw.

I saw a lump of a child sitting on a fairly well fed mare that was quite obviously neither big enough nor robust enough to carry the child.

I did not comment on how lumpy the child was, nor how appalling a rider she was as the picture might have been taken at a bad moment (but then why on earth post it on a website??) and the child cannot be held solely responsible for her weight.

The fact remains that a rescue society, that sets itself up as such and claims to have experience as such, should not be putting pictures like this on a website, giving the impression that the Mini can carry a huge child and opening it up for further abuse in the future, they are supposed to be finding it a better home than the one it came from, not consigning it back into heck, for goodness sake!!!

I had that condescending e-mail back form them too, and have replied again to it.

They wanted to know how I could tell a Black Roan from a Silver Black- from a picture- DUH!!! If they are asking that- what else do they not know??(this was not a genuine question from them, by the way, it was a "what do you know?" sort of question)

You see, I have raised this point on a number of occasions before-

Buying animals from the slaughter yard at the high prices they ask (the prices on these horses were surprisingly low) is encouraging people like this to make a quick profit by setting themselves up as "rescue" agencies.

I am not saying there are not genuine rescue organisations attached to slaughter yards- and it breaks my heart to see the horses there- BUT are we in fact just feeding the monster by buying out of these yards.

I am not at all sure of the answer- I only know if I lived anywhere near a yard like that I would have a field full of horses in record time and so, I suppose I would set about re homing some, and so it starts!!

I would NOT have any large, lumpy kids riding them though

 

[Triggy&Blue&Daisy Too]

Well Jane I wasn't referring to the present case as being rumor, it was in reference to "Also Im not going into details but like i said there have been more then this picture come up on the rescue forum. " To me, that smacks of rumor when there are no facts to identify just what the "more" is. Just wanted to clarify

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OMG I just went back and reread something I missed in your post Jane, forgive me but I almost wet myself when I read you think these rescue orgs, legitimate or not, make a profit? Anyone who does this kind of work rapidly comes to the realization just how unlikely that is--much akin to going into breeding minis and waiting to rake in all that loot hand over fist I think.

:

 

[tigeresss]

I did not read many of the replies but what I do NOT understand is why these horses/ponies/minis are being ridden in the first place? NO horse rescues up here that I know of will even consider riding a horse until it is COMPLETELY rehabilitated and many of those horses do not look rehabilitated. So what's going on with that?

 

[Minimor]

I'm quite certain that none of the people that have posted here would ever e-mail a farm and insult that farm's horses as pictured on their website or in an ad. I know there are people that do that, but they aren't the people that have posted on this thread. I surely would not do that. On the other hand, a "rescue" that publishes photos of a form of abuse IMO leaves itself wide open to criticism. A rescue is supposed to be a good place for horses; being ridden by an oversize rider surely cannot be considered a good thing?

And you know what? If I were to put a photo like that on my website, of a very large rider riding a small horse, I would fully expect to receive some rude e-mails from people that see it.

I quite agree that there are times when if you talk nicely to someone and explain something politely, then you can teach them something. Sometimes people just don't know, and that's why they are doing the wrong thing for their animals. Other times, though, the person figures that they know the best/the most, and it is everyone else that needs educating. You can talk nice until you're blue in the face & that person isn't going to take note of what you say--they will just go on doing whatever abusive behavior they have been doing. They'll even come up with some facts/documents which they manage to twist around to justify what they are doing.

And as I see it about kaykay's post, she did state a fact--this rescue is no longer allowed to post on the CMHR site. That's a fact, not an innuendo.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

I see why everyone is upset however I have to somewhat agree with triggy and others on this one. In fact I saw an attempted rescue come to a screetching halt this week over something kinda the same way. Bottom line is the rescue didnt speak to the owner and educate her she felt shamed and backed out.. shaming and embarassing someone usually doesnt work especially when it is a "pack" mentality coming after them it only tends to strengthen there position more.

I realize the child is big but.. she is a CHILD and commenting on her butt size and such surely isnt what we meant to do but I am sure could be taken that way by a CHILD

Again I see the reason for being upset however I think sometimes stepping back. taking a breath and coming up with a productive way to try and solve something might be better and yes I am including myself in that statement as well

 

[Triggy&Blue&Daisy Too]

I'm quite certain that none of the people that have posted here would ever e-mail a farm and insult that farm's horses as pictured on their website or in an ad. I know there are people that do that, but they aren't the people that have posted on this thread. I surely would not do that. On the other hand, a "rescue" that publishes photos of a form of abuse IMO leaves itself wide open to criticism. A rescue is supposed to be a good place for horses; being ridden by an oversize rider surely cannot be considered a good thing?

Well since we area down to splitting hairs and rarely do I go into this much detail but I am surprised every day by people who ordinarlly wouldn't do such things on their own but because they happen to agree with a part of the issue will "pack" up when incited. Emotion causes tunnel vision and nothing else can get in. No reason, no logic just seeing red about something that pushes their buttons. So far none of you seems to have gotten what you wanted from writing to this woman so all that has happened is that she probably won't ever listen to anyone about the subject again. So much for the horses in her care too? She's not going to quit rescuing horses because you think she's not being a good example. And while it doesn't make it right, who of you has NOT at least once in their lives ridden a horse or pony that is obviously too small for you (tiny rabs is the exception

for whatever reason. No one who is too big for their mount is going to be spending a whole lot of time doing much riding of any significance for any length of time--it's self regulating. The mini/pony communitiy is pretty schizophrenic about the subject of riding anyway. On one hand there are those who assume that they should never, ever be ridden, even by children of appropriate weight, to those silly show classes a few years ago with adult riders on modern shetlands with their stirrups about a foot and a half from the ground.

:

And you know what? If I were to put a photo like that on my website, of a very large rider riding a small horse, I would fully expect to receive some rude e-mails from people that see it.

Well if you expect to receive rude emails over something like that then why in the world would you put in on your site? Obviously the person was not doing it intentionally to cause an uproar. Who in the world wants to invite criticism?

I quite agree that there are times when if you talk nicely to someone and explain something politely, then you can teach them something. Sometimes people just don't know, and that's why they are doing the wrong thing for their animals. Other times, though, the person figures that they know the best/the most, and it is everyone else that needs educating. You can talk nice until you're blue in the face & that person isn't going to take note of what you say--they will just go on doing whatever abusive behavior they have been doing. They'll even come up with some facts/documents which they manage to twist around to justify what they are doing.

When did any of you give the person that chance? Maybe some had their heads screwed on good enough to not turn it into a personal attack. Ill tell you what if any of you decided to take it on yourselves to insult me and worse yet my innocent child, you'd be one sorry sucker and you'd better hide if I ever saw you at a show. Sometimes you can only give advice and then must let it lie, you can't force anyone to your will and those that do only alienate. They NEVER affect positive change. It doesn't take much brain power to be right but it does to persuade.

And as I see it about kaykay's post, she did state a fact--this rescue is no longer allowed to post on the CMHR site. That's a fact, not an innuendo.

Well if she would have left it at that, I agree. But when only part of the statement is fact it doesn't make the entire thing factual. For example the statement, I will never donate to CMHR again. My donation wasn't used for the proper purpose and the money was misappropriated as they evaded my questions to how the money would be used. What would most people get get from that statement? That CMHR is doing something wrong and to those who would trust what I say would be leading them astray if so inclined. We can lead people in any direction with words used to further our position.

Oh and by the way the only part of that that is true is that I will never donate to CMHR again but for my own personal reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with anything CMHR has done.