Does The Minimum Wage Hurt Workers?

[Jill]

At first glance, it's easy to think minimum wage laws are a good thing. However, I think they do more harm than good and wanted to share this video. It explains what happens very well, and is entertaining as well as informative.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ct1Moeaa-W8

 

[Shari]

I can't watch the Video because I am on HughesNet.

But yes, Min Wage hurts adults specially ones with family.

You know why my family is over this way... the big companies in the NW either out sources jobs to Asia and what jobs they had for Engineers went poof in 08! They laid 99% of them off but wanted to hire them back from Min Wage to $17.00 and hour. No adult with a family can live on that.... even in NW Oregon, section 8 housing would cost to much to rent.

We were living modestly and still do. But with a small Mortgage the very high property taxes, insurance and all that.... just no way. We would of been like the thousands of families living in Tents in the National parks, because they couldn't afford to put a roof over the families head.

Only thing Min Wage helps, is the companies and rich people that want more money for themselves.

We had to leave the State that we loved, friends and family to move 3,000 miles away so my DH could have a living wage job. Is just enough to put a roof over our heads, food on the table and feed the animals. Not much left over to do anything else. But it is better than living in a Tent in the NW.

 

[Jill]

I agree with you on some of what you said, and understand as well the emotions behind the perspective. I don't know, though, that minimum wage laws benefit companies. It requires them to make staffing changes in order to maintain a bottom line. It potentially helps highly productive or especially talented workers by mandating a raise, but really... those highly productive or most talented employees do not need help as they are the most marketable of the workforce. It feels like the kind of thing most Americans would feel is "good" at first glance, but if you look a little deeper, it's easy to see the true results are not beneficial.

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

I'd get a pay cut from my miesly $8/hr if they cut minimum wage. How would I live on that?

 

[Jill]

Or if they raised minimum wage, maybe your job would be outsourced or divided among other workers. That's pretty much the point. Business owners are not evil, but they have got to make the bottom line work.

 

[Shari]

Most companies are already outsourcing big time, has been like that for many, many years.

I dislike seeing companies that are raking in billions of dollars clear a year, basically do not get taxed and then pull we can only pay mini wage for Engineers... Bunch of dishonest, greedy....... (insert words here)

 

[Jill]

What's behind the outsourcing?

In a lot of cases, it's actually the American consumer who is often no longer willing to pay what it costs to produce items in the USA. When people in other parts of the world work for pennies... And the American worker will not and cannot...

With free markets / free enterprise, which is now spans many parts of the globe, companies react to consumer demands.

Additionally, corporate tax rates in the USA are actually the highest in the developed world. This greatly contributes to the outsourcing.

 

[Jill]

Congress was controlled by the Democrats from 2006 - 2010, and from 2008 - 2010, Democrats had full control of the WH and congress. During 2008 - 2010, Democrats focused on putting Obamacare through, without Republican support, vs. work on the economy. Which is a shame... It is exciting that after the elections, we may have a President with much business understanding and success. We could sure use a different approach.

Anyway...

My intent with this thread was to point out something that can be somewhat counter inintuitive -- that increasing the minimum wage actually hurts the lowest income earners. The very people many believe an increased minimum wage would help.

 

[jyuukai]

What about those jobs that can't be outsourced? I work in Retail, in customer service. We can hardly put the customers on the phone when they come in to the store to talk to a real person, and so that sort of job couldn't be cut. Really, I don't get paid enough to work there, and I get paid a tiny bit over min. Between my wife and myself both working we can barely afford the 300sq ft apartment we live in ,and we live in a poor area where housing isn't that expensive!

If min. wage was cut I would be homeless, seriously. It would be far from helpful to me.

 

[tagalong]

Congress was controlled by the Democrats from 2006 - 2010, and from 2008 - 2010,

Ah yes - the usual lame excuses for the endless filibustering and blocking and derailing - excuses, excuses, excuses for bad behaviour - no matter what side it is on. "They" were in "control" then so that entitles "us" to act like 3rd graders and pout and stamp our feet. It is not Congress - it is a kindergarten that we pay to send these clowns to...

The Rs are loud and proud about devoting their time - and your money - to making sure Obama is just a one term President and why bother with anything that will actually help Americans?? The fact that they are now so blatant about their agenda and their total disregard for trying to actually help out their constituents annoys the heck outta me. And yes, I would be saying the exact same thing if the roles were reversed - I am not "party" blind...

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

What about those jobs that can't be outsourced? I work in Retail, in customer service. We can hardly put the customers on the phone when they come in to the store to talk to a real person, and so that sort of job couldn't be cut. Really, I don't get paid enough to work there, and I get paid a tiny bit over min. Between my wife and myself both working we can barely afford the 300sq ft apartment we live in ,and we live in a poor area where housing isn't that expensive!

If min. wage was cut I would be homeless, seriously. It would be far from helpful to me.

Exactly my point. I work retail as well.

 

[vickie gee]

On jobs that cannot be outsourced minimum wage helps to get applicants through the door. Back when I had my dry cleaning business if you were hired you started at minimum wage with no experience and slightly above minimum wage if you had experience in pressing. If you were unteachable, a slacker, complaining, lazy, attitudinal, tied up my business phone, and had visitors showing up or calling you on the job you were not there long enough to find out about raises. I had very, very few of those people ever, thank goodness. Those with a desire to learn and who were honest and productive and brought a good attitude to work with them got raises, bonuses, and surprise tipping from me. My best workers usually were high school or college students. At one store a girl that worked for me her high school year as a junior and senior became my assistant manager. She was put on good salaried pay and only had to work part time. She asked me to write a letter of recommendation for her to get into the college radiology program and I was as proud of her as if she was my own child when she got accepted. Business owners have to pick a lot of apples to find the best apples and to make a profit they need to cull the bad apples and reward the good apples. And sadly some apples will never fill out a job application and just let the taxpayers support them if they think they are never going to rise above minimum wage or if it is well known that the employer has a high turn over rate because they do not compensate fairly.

 

[ozymandias]

Ah yes - the usual lame excuses for the endless filibustering and blocking and derailing - excuses, excuses, excuses for bad behaviour - no matter what side it is on. "They" were in "control" then so that entitles "us" to act like 3rd graders and pout and stamp our feet. It is not Congress - it is a kindergarten that we pay to send these clowns to...

The Rs are loud and proud about devoting their time - and your money - to making sure Obama is just a one term President and why bother with anything that will actually help Americans?? The fact that they are now so blatant about their agenda and their total disregard for trying to actually help out their constituents annoys the heck outta me. And yes, I would be saying the exact same thing if the roles were reversed - I am not "party" blind...

THANK YOU !!! I've been a life long Rep myself but to be honest I'm so sick of the kindergarten attitudes that are destroying our nation based on party politics....and the sheeple who accept it as "okay" because they are such followers they won't question what their party is doing because they are "loyal". Anyone so "loyal" isn't using their evolutionary grey matter!!!

 

[shelia]

One thing I see that is hurting the workers (other than outsourcing) is the so called middleman. The costs of everything has risen an awfull lot in the past 20 years or so, but the amount of the actual product from its source has not. Farmers do not get the high profits that some people think. that is all eaten up by the places they sell the products to and then transport costs ect... If beef and other products could be sold locally it could eliminate all of the extra costs. the smaller farmers and ranchers get pushed out because the buyers are instructed to buy from only the large operations. They also only will pay very little. By the time it gets to the store or establishment it has got through a few hands who each get their cut. These people are the ones who are making the large profits.

I have also noticed it to be the same with vet and medical bills. The actual doctors and vets are only a small fraction of the cost. It is all of those other things that bring the price up so much. It is people behind the scenes who are making the big bucks.

The guy who owns the burger joint could get his products a lot cheaper if he could get it from a local rancher. Both he and the rancher would make more money. He could then keep all of his employees.

 

[susanne]

Shelia, There are so many people willing to buy from a small farmer/rancher where the chain is unbroken from birth through slaughter, and where the cattle have half a chance to lead a normal life. So much of the attention goes to the organic farms, but the beef need not be certifiably organic to be preferable to the big, industrialized operations. Granted, I live in a state where laws favor such things, but it wasn't always like this -- it had to start somewhere.

I don't have access to all of the posts on this thread (by choice), so I won't comment on any of that.

 

[vvf]

One thing I see that is hurting the workers (other than outsourcing) is the so called middleman. The costs of everything has risen an awfull lot in the past 20 years or so, but the amount of the actual product from its source has not. Farmers do not get the high profits that some people think. that is all eaten up by the places they sell the products to and then transport costs ect... If beef and other products could be sold locally it could eliminate all of the extra costs. the smaller farmers and ranchers get pushed out because the buyers are instructed to buy from only the large operations. They also only will pay very little. By the time it gets to the store or establishment it has got through a few hands who each get their cut. These people are the ones who are making the large profits.

I have also noticed it to be the same with vet and medical bills. The actual doctors and vets are only a small fraction of the cost. It is all of those other things that bring the price up so much. It is people behind the scenes who are making the big bucks.

The guy who owns the burger joint could get his products a lot cheaper if he could get it from a local rancher. Both he and the rancher would make more money. He could then keep all of his employees.

This is something I have been wondering about farmers (in my area anyway)...They hang Huge prices on their hay... they stack it out in their fields and if they don't get their Huge prices... they don't sell it at all.. And they will let it sit and rot... Some how that just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[chandab]

This is something I have been wondering about farmers (in my area anyway)...They hang Huge prices on their hay... they stack it out in their fields and if they don't get their Huge prices... they don't sell it at all.. And they will let it sit and rot... Some how that just doesn't make sense to me.

I don't get it either. Some will sell, some won't. We have a neighbor that asks premium price for so-so hay, and its now been sitting on the edge of the field for two years; with the drought he just might get it sold this year for cow hay.

 

[shelia]

I don't know about the hay farmers in you area, but in my area many fruit and vedgetable farmers are paid by the government not to plant. that keeps the prices up. when there is too much of a certain kind of fruit the farms are paid to pull up there trees and start over or plant something else. It is only allowed with the large farms. If you have a smaller operation you can't get paid to do it. Perhaps your hay farmer will get paid subsidies for the loss of his crop. It is a shame that he did all of the work and now just seems to be stubborn.

 

[Jill]

I don't know about the hay farmers in you area, but in my area many fruit and vedgetable farmers are paid by the government not to plant. that keeps the prices up. when there is too much of a certain kind of fruit the farms are paid to pull up there trees and start over or plant something else. It is only allowed with the large farms. If you have a smaller operation you can't get paid to do it. Perhaps your hay farmer will get paid subsidies for the loss of his crop. It is a shame that he did all of the work and now just seems to be stubborn.

That's exactly what I too suspect

 

[chandab]

To my knowledge, at least around here, they don't limit hay production as Mother Nature does a pretty good job of that as it is. [Not sure if hay is limited anywhere, as its not as high value as many other crops.]