Getting a Mare to Accept Foal or Foal to Drink from Bucket

[Basketmiss]

Sounds like Trooper has found a BIG place in your heart!

Of course you cause are being his MOM! You are taking care of him and making sure he is fed, loving him, so it sounds like you just your new baby boy since Maddie isnt interested..I am glad he is getting the bowl, I hope he keeps progressing, so you can rest-keep us posted..

 

[Aristocratic Minis]

Jill, if you get too tired taking care of Trooper, send that dun boy TO ME!!!!

 

[Jill]

Again, I cannot say THANKS enough. Your tips have been great and just as much help is the moral support! You all are the best!!!

Woke up from a loooong nap to find a nearly empty bowl. Yep!!! He's got it down now and knows what to do. He is also very frisky and was bucking around in his stall. His pen is a mud mess but we let him in the yard and he ran around but it's slippery with the rain we've been getting. He still thought it was great fun.

He's eating quite a bit more than the package would indicate but maybe he is "catching up". He was shivering some this evening but it is cool and the air is very damp. I have a heavier insulated blanket on him now and fresh sawdust with 1/2 a bail of straw on top so that should help to keep him warm.

What a relief!!!

One more question -- I'm not having great luck finding foal lac pellets at our feed stores, though I think I can find it easy enough online However, the bag of the powder says to start that, I think at 3-4 weeks but before then you start with foal feed (I'm assuming Purina Equine Junior will be okay). So he's to be on foal feed prior to adding the foal lack pellets to the "mix". I wonder if it okay to keep him just on the formula and PEJ and not get the foal lac pellets (but continue the foal lac powder formula)?

 

[Jill]

Ooops! I wanted to say the "strategy" that worked for us getting him to drink from the bowl. It is a silver wide base dog bowl that should be hard to tip over and is just under 3" deep if you measure from the inside. We kept holding that to his muzzle and a couple times dipping his muzzle in for the taste of it and angling it so he had the deep end nearest his mouth. He did drink that way 2 separate times this morning before really getting it the 3rd time and drinking that first 1/2 cup straight. Since he didn't like it so much ground level and it getting bedding in it. So we put it on top of a milk crate (doesn't seem he could possibly get his feet caught in it looking at it and him). Now we put a fresh bowl in and he drinks a good part of it down, finishing the rest later.

 

[Filipowicz Farm]

We had a colt that mother would have nothing to do with. Walt cut out the size of the bowel on a peice of wood and then made a box and the bowel sat down in the hole this way they could not spill the milk and Stoney did not paw at the milk with his hoofs. Glad Jill that the foal learned to drink out of the bowel. Our colt drank more then the amount the package said.

 

[Ashley]

He's eating quite a bit more than the package would indicate but maybe he is "catching up". He was shivering some this evening but it is cool and the air is very damp. I have a heavier insulated blanket on him now and fresh sawdust with 1/2 a bail of straw on top so that should help to keep him warm.

For what its worth, probably not much but ......

Be careful not to let him get to much as they can get the runs pretty quick on powdered milk. I would stick to what the bag or the vet recommends for him and not go over.

As for feed, I personally would add the pellets in. From the bottle babies I have seen they looked much better with the pellets mixed in than with out it. I would also keep him on it for a good six months and hopefully that will help the "look" he could develop from the powdered milk as well.

 

[maplegum]

Oh Jill, what a roller coaster for you!

I had a suggestion, and you are aware that my knowledge in regards to breeding is very limited but I have heard that perhaps your other mare with a foal at her side might also take on little Trooper.

I have heard that this can work quite well for some.

I feel so bad that his Mum doesn't love him.

 

[chandab]

He's eating quite a bit more than the package would indicate but maybe he is "catching up". He was shivering some this evening but it is cool and the air is very damp. I have a heavier insulated blanket on him now and fresh sawdust with 1/2 a bail of straw on top so that should help to keep him warm.

Jill,

The question of how much came up on an equine nutrition board I'm on, the nutritionist said not to feed more than the mare is likely to produce. Its mostly a full-size horse board, but here's what he said about how much:

Mares on average product 3% of their body weight/day in milk--and milk weighs around 8 lbs/gallon. So a 1000 lb mare will produce 30 lbs of Milk/day which is 3.75 gallons or rounded to 4 gallons/day. Since the mare would not produce anymore than this-we do not want to offer anymore liquid milk than this.

Most foals will willingly drink more than they should--but we have to limit them to the same amount that mother nature would have.

Mother would not have been an unlimited supply so we don't want to offer unlimited milk.

I know this is for full-size horses, but shouldn't be too hard to scale down to mini size, if you know the weight of your mare. If you want more of the conversation, PM me.

 

[Jill]

Thank you everyone!

I will (or H will) ask the feed store we got the Foal Lac powder from to order some of the pellets for us. That also will be good as when he can be more on those / less on formula, he can be left longer w/o a fresh bowl (since it will spoil after so long).

My milk crate idea worked until it didn't! Probably as I typed the last post, he knocked it off. But H cut some round 4x4 posts to go inside the crate and then a board to make more level platform and now we're using the milk crate, but upside down so that the bowl sits down in it some and can't be knocked off it (and the bowl is one of those no-tip kind for dogs).

Wouldn't you know it, too... one of my friends a mile away -- her mare lost a foal Tuesday and had been morning him (newborn) and trying to kidnap another foal. With everything going on, I hadn't called her until today and now the mare's milk is gone but this bowl is working now. If we'd have known earlier, it would have been a good solution possibly.

I do have a mare with a 3mos old filly, however, that mare is really a little "hot". Not very inclined to cooperate with her people, etc. My vets thought it would be a bad idea to try and get her to accept Trooper. But it is something H and I seriously concidered. If it had been a couple of my other mares, I may have tried... I even thought of trying to give Lou (foaled last year and prior -- excellent mom) Domperidone to see if that would bring milk in on a mare who had last foaled a year ago? I don't know if that would have worked, but it was something I thought of.

 

[Jill]

Chanda, thank you! That makes sense. But when I do the math, I'm coming up with him should be getting more than the package says for a big horse foal -- so I must be doing something wrong. I think my IQ is a bit lower now than it was Wedneday morning.

The package says for his age, a full size horse would eat 1.5 pints (3 cups) 8x a day. I wonder if I'm safe to feed him about 1/3 that amount (which was my goal but I thought that he is less than 1/3 as big as a full size horse. Maddie is "hefty" now and about 33.75". I haven't thought to measure Trooper.

Do you all think 1/3 the full size horse recommendation, which is 1 cup, every 3 hours is a good baseline for now?

 

[shelly]

Glad to hear he is catching on to the bowl eating!!!! I think that an average full size foal weighs between 80-100 lbs. , so 1/3 of that would make him around 25-30 lbs...sounds about right to me!!!! GOOD LUCK and give Trooper a big HUG!!!

:wub

 

[Marty]

Jill this happened to my friend twice who foaled her Quarter Horse mare out in my Florida barn. We did everything I swear to no avail. Finally, the first time, we ended up gently sedating the mare when banamine didn't work. I cannot remember what it was but it was not Ace or Rompin, it was something else from the vet, and once the baby began to nurse while the mare was stoned, she allowed the baby to nurse until she sobered up. We did this again for I think 2 or 3 days then it all came together and no more sedation. We also did use Bag Balm and compresses thinking she was hurting and then would massage it in and then wipe.

Second time it happened to her other mare, her mare was being a horrible witch and kicking and biting at the baby, warning him to stay away. We had to tie her up and constantly scold her for it. That worked for a short while. For that foal, we tried regular size baby bottles, one of my kids actually and foal lac formula. Foal would not latch on the baby bottle and did want to drink out of any buckets. ........We tried all kinds of buckets, but nope, would not drink out of them. Brought on a little wooden low sided salad bowl and by gosh that baby drank like it was going out of style and lived a long happy spoiled rotten life. I don't know how much or it we ever offered this was so long ago but it was a lot more than called for.

Good luck to you. Sorry you had to have this happen.

 

[chandab]

Chanda, thank you! That makes sense. But when I do the math, I'm coming up with him should be getting more than the package says for a big horse foal -- so I must be doing something wrong. I think my IQ is a bit lower now than it was Wedneday morning.
The package says for his age, a full size horse would eat 1.5 pints (3 cups) 8x a day. I wonder if I'm safe to feed him about 1/3 that amount (which was my goal but I thought that he is less than 1/3 as big as a full size horse. Maddie is "hefty" now and about 33.75". I haven't thought to measure Trooper.

Do you all think 1/3 the full size horse recommendation, which is 1 cup, every 3 hours is a good baseline for now?

Jill,

I do believe his information was for a slightly older foal, the mare's milk quantity increases as the foal grows, so I doubt a newborn foal would get quite that amount. And, it is also a maximum amount to feed; the discussion I pulled it from was for a full-size orphan foal that was getting free choice milk replacer (he kept eating, so they kept feeding him more, and he was upto 6 gallons/day, about 2x recommended amount and they were worried about the costs adding up quickly at that rate) and consequently getting diarrhea from too much.

I would guess about 1/3 full size horse (average 1000-1100#), too. That's how I do most of the math, at least for my minis, since they are 300-350# (almost all B-size). I don't think I'd go over 1/3 the recommended amount for a full-size foal and if he gets diarrhea from too much, you'll know to back-off a little.

Glad to hear he figured out the bowl. So much easier for you, although, you could have taken him to work and turned him into the office mascot.

Ok, I went to their website, and found the information for their foal replacer, and it says 1 gal milk per day for foal from 250# mare. Also says to start slow with half the recommended amount to start and slowly increase over a week to 10 day period to the full amount; if the foal gets diarrhea to back off the amount. Also, says to mix amount a foal should consume in 12 hours (1/2 daily amount), and make it available free choice. Allowing foal milk at all times is more natural, and will result in fewer digestive upsets. EAch time new formula is mixed, discard any milk not yet consumed and thoroughly clean the bucket before adding fresh milk replacer. [And, they don't recommend anything but milk-based feeds at this time, as the foal can not digest anything but milk at this time.]

 

[minih]

Jill, I don't have anything to add, you are getting lots of good advice on here, just wanted to send well wishes your way. I know this has all got to be exhausting, hang in there.

 

[qtrrae]

Gosh, Jill - I just now saw this thread - I am sorry you are having all these problems with Maddie.

I know it is probably "late" for suggestions but this is what happened with a friend of mine's (quarter horse mare) She was viscious to the point that she actually tried to kill her foal, their vet had them tie the mare against the side of her stall and then take a couple of boards and actually pen her in leaving room for the foal to reach under and nurse.

It sounds cruel because the mare is not able to lie down. They would put her in that position and the foal could go and nurse whenever it wanted to - within 2 days the mare was accepting her baby and became the very best of Moms.

Good luck with that precious little man - if anyone can get this to work - it will be you. He is going to be well worth all the extra effort.

 

[Jill]

Trooper is doing very well this morning and drinking that milk like a champ from the bowl!!!

Right now, my biggest horse wish is that Maddie is done w/ her penicillin. If you get it in the vein, it will kill the horse, so you've got to pull back. She was a pain in the butt to catch this morning out in the pouring rain and dark. I have to do the shot 2x a day and before H leaves for work as he has to hold her and I have to inject her. The first two times, I pulled back the syringe and had blood. Finally gave it in her butt muscle w/ no blood when I pulled back. She was shaking bad and is hard anyway as she knows she's getting a shot and it's like she and H are dance partners. Honestly, now we're both (me and Maddie) a nervous wreck over the penicillin shot so I'm calling the vet today and just begging that had to be the last (was to be 5-7 days of it 2x a day, this was the 10th shot so 5 full days). She's also finished a gentamicin course.

Just knowing you're giving something that could kill the horse (on the spot!), the horse not at all holding still for it, and me knowing how dangerous and what if as she's dancing around w/ it in her neck, it knocks some into the vein... no, no more. I can't.

 

[FairytailGlennMinis]

Oh Jill honey, I am so sorry. The exhaustion, worry and fear are just tangible in your words. I feel so bad for you, H, Maddie and Trooper. Hang in there...

 

[GREENWOODMINIS]

Hi Jill...I am really sorry you are going through this...I know first hand how hard something like this is...I went through the exact same thing...only our problem was our mare had no milk...so If you need any advise on getting the baby strong and healthy and the little tricks we used...or if you just need to vent or cry or even yell...call me...I totally understand...I fed our baby around the clock for 3 months- and almost lost her on two occasions...babies can go down hill very very fast when things go wrong...so...I have walked in your shoes..its tough...hang in there friend...you will all three make it through this I know...sending your prayers and good wishes!!!!!!

hugs & God Bless

lis

937 -609-0891

 

[Firefall]

I'm so glad to hear Trooper is learning and doing well. Maybe you can get some more naps in??????

Keep up the good work!!!

 

[wc minis]

So glad to hear that Trooper is eating on his own now!! Hang in there