Hard Shipping Gelding Proposal

[LaVern]

I am writing to all the directors to let them know my feelings about this proposal, because I feel so strongly about it. I know that I have to clean it up a bit but this is what I am going to say.

I wish I could come to convention, but there is no way I can leave again. But I am so worried about this measure to let geldings hardship into AMHR. Oh I hope everyone thinks this through.

My reasons for being against it.

If this should pass, why would a breeder ever register a gelding or any of the colts or even spend the money to geld them?

If it would pass it is saying to the guy that follows the rules and does everything by the AMHR book, that he is a fool.

It is saying that the guy who has never been a member of AMHR and never registered anything or sent in a stud report is the smart one for pumping out little non registered horses and the rest of us that have done everything that has been required is - stupid. And there are lot of grade breeders out there.

We should be saying that to own an AMHR registered gelding means something and encourage the registering and gelding of these little guys, and not be saying to breeders that they are not worth anything. Or, that the breeding and the breeders name is not worth anything.

People want these gelding to show and they can't without AMHR papers. That is the one thing that can keep the market value of these little guys up. We as breeders deserve the backing of our Registry.

Please consider this. Thanks Renee Reiten, Lucky Hart Ranch.I have been thinking hard on this deal. And her is another thing I thought of last night.

Example - Say, I pull hair on all these boys. And on the mothers and fathers most of who I have done already. Now someone hardships one of these little boys and I see it out there and I say, " Wait a minute that is not Little Hoppers Champion that is Lucky Harts Gold Fellow and I can prove it". Is that guy guilty of falsifying papers, you bet he is, and the office helped him do it.

 

[Lisa Strass]

I will be at Convention this year, and I agree completely with you on this one, LaVern!

 

[ruffian]

I agree and disagree. A gelding can do no damage to a breed. POA's allow hardshipping of geldings. BUT - and a huge BUT - it needs to cost enough to make people strongly think about paying the fee to have a gelding registered. A fee of just $50 is an insult to reputable breeders.

PROS -

More money for the registry

More Money for shows and clubs

More good geldings out there to promote the breed

CONS -

If kept at a ridiculously low fee, it will hurt breeders

Therefore, more junk horses could be admitted to the breed

So I thnk that geldings should continue to be hardshipped into AMHR, BUT at a fee of no less than $500.

 

[LaVern]

I feel that any amount of money is just an insult to me and my breeding. 500.00 Just means that the rich guy can play by different rules that the poor guy, that is not right in my opinion.

 

[LaVern]

Just thought I should ad, I am not against continuing to allow the AMHA geldings with correct paperwork to come in as they have always.

 

[Songcatcher]

LaVern, I agree, allowing hardshipping geldings does nothing FOR the breed and is an insult and detriment to breeders.

If you want a registered gelding to show, buy from a registered breeder. If you want an adorable and loving pet, papers mean nothing.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

After reviewing it I am not for allowing unregistered geldings in. I'm on the fence with the $50. IMO I think hardshipping in a gelding should be cheaper then a mare, but $50 is a little low, I say $100 is more reasonable. If you all don't like it then send in a proposal and make it $300 for hardship of a mare and leave the $200 for the gelding. Thats just the way I see it but I do think $50 is a little low and hopefully the person who wrote it will be there to change it.

 

[kaykay]

I really dont think (and hope) this doesnt pass. The door is closed and we need to leave it closed.

We will never achieve breed status if we allow unknown horses in.

Its hard enough now to promote geldings and this will make it harder.

And as Lavern said its a slap in the face to every breeder that registers colts and gelds them.

Kay

 

[minimomNC]

Wouldn't a gelding still have to have AMHA or ASPC papers to be hardshipped? If so what is the difference in how they are registered now except a reduction of fee. The way I read it it doesn't mean to let just any gelding be registered, just those that would have to be hardshipped to begin with be it a stallion or gelding. If I could register a colt for $20 I would do that rather than hardship him from AMHA papers for $50 after I gelded him, I guess I am not seeing what everyone else is in the same words.

 

[~Lisa~]

Right now for $400.00 dollars and a little bit of leg work any grade gelding can become AMHR registered with the only stipulation being the horse is under 34 to hardship into AMHA first.

I guess I do not see how allowing B size geldings to hardship into the AMHR (for a fee much higher then $50.00 bucks) perhaps an equal fee of $400.00 is going to change things that drastically and if we are so totally and completly opposed to hardshipping geldings and feeling it will ruin the breed why then do we allow it simply due to the fact the grade horse now has AMHA papers and is under 34 inches?

I am not sure where I stand or how I will choose to vote on this issue but I am curious to hear how others feel it is different with a B size horse coming in (again assuming that there is a way to change the $amount to equal that of a horse going AMHA and then into R)

Or how everyone feels about closing hardship period then to anything that is not out of AMHR registered parents

Again I am not sure how I feel on the issue at all when it comes to voting so just trying to get more information on the actual impact -so this thread has been interesting but how is it different allowing a grade gelding now AMHA reg coming in to AMHR or allowing a ASPC gelding to come in both for a fairly low fee

Do you feel that allowing them in has changed or impacted the way AMHR breeders are able to market the colts they opt to geld?

Lets assume the writer of the proposal ( I do not know who that is) decided to change the amount at Convention to match that the AMHA and ASPC horses are paying would that change what you belive about this proposal be it either for or against?

 

[dannigirl]

I have a barn full of amhr registered geldings. Not all, but most are very show worthy. If we allow unregistered geldings to be registered for a fee, then that will make my geldings worth little or nothing. Most of my geldings don't sell until they are over 3 and either trained or, at the very least, started in harness and/or under saddle--not to mention often times jumping and such. I am having a hard time getting up to $1000 for them now and usually sell them for a lot less. If geldings from nonregistered stock are allowed to come into the registry for $50 or even $500 for that matter, it will be next to impossible for owners of registered geldings to sell them.

 

[~Lisa~]

I have a barn full of amhr registered geldings. Not all, but most are very show worthy. If we allow unregistered geldings to be registered for a fee, then that will make my geldings worth little or nothing. Most of my geldings don't sell until they are over 3 and either trained or, at the very least, started in harness and/or under saddle--not to mention often times jumping and such. I am having a hard time getting up to $1000 for them now and usually sell them for a lot less. If geldings from nonregistered stock are allowed to come into the registry for $50 or even $500 for that matter, I may as well send all mine out to pasture and let them live free on grass, water and air cause I won't be able to sell any of them to help difer the cost of the rest. (That would never happen here--just being strong opionioned--I have the means to keep any and all that are born here----)

Thanks for answering. I can see that point totally and do agree we need to help make our geldings more valuable in the Mini breed. So then would you support a proposal written to not allow ANY gelding to hardship in be it a grade gelding who got A papers and then hardshipped in (who again can easily be done for a total of $400.00 bucks and some leg work)?

Or an ASPC gelding who can be done for $200.00?

Or do you think if a proposal like this one was passed (and lets pretend the amount was raised from $50.00 to $500.00) there would be way more geldings coming into the registry then now currently?

Or is the quality less then or better then if they have AMHA or ASPC papers?

I guess I am really starting to wonder how having a place for B sized geldings to come into the registry will do more damage to the gelding market then having a current system that allows grade to AMHA to AMHR into the registry?

Hard to see in print but please know I am not trying to argue or make anyone right or wrong I am truly trying to understand how and why everyone feels this will impact our breed and gelding market more now then what we currently have in place so I can really see both sides before voting

 

[ruffian]

I also have several quality geldings. Is the market where I want it to be to sell horses? No. IMO this is the horse market in general, not just miniatures.

As I see it, the only horses that could not be hardshipped would be the "B' geldings. IMO if someone wants to put the time, feed, energy and MONEY into hardshipping a B gelding, it's only going to be for those geldings who are top quality. The mass producer breeder who is breeding only because they have a mare and stallion aren't going to worry about hardshipping a gelding. Plus once someone gets into showing their gelding - which is the only reason to hardship a gelding - they will see quality and meet reputable breeders and be buying more and hopefully better.

 

[Minimor]

I agree with LaVern & the others--this rule should not be passed.

Someone has a nice gelding with no papers and they want to show? Really it is no different than someone who has a nice mare with no papers and they want to show...if you can't get papers on the one, it is no less fair than not being able to get papers on the other. Either way, go out & buy a registered horse to show.

I would have less objection to a proposal that would allow an unregistered gelding to get AMHR papers for a higher fee, say $500. Why so much? Well, if the gelding is so good that he's worth registering and showing, then the special opportunity to get those papers should be worth the extra money. There should be a price to be paid for special privileges, and I consider the hardshipping of a grade gelding to be a special privilege when grade mares and stallions are not allowed to hardship.

I have no problem with the AMHA or ASPC horses getting hardshipped in for $200. After all, if mares and stallions from those registries are allowed to hardship in then no reason for things to be any different for the geldings.

For breeders in this area, the ability to hardship a gelding into AMHA and then into AMHR really has little effect on their gelding sales. In order to hardship anything into AMHA the horse has to be hauled to the US or all the way out to one of the Alberta shows. By the time you pay for gas, the time spent on the trip, the AMHA hardship fee plus the AMHR hardship fee after that, you will have spent well over $500 to get those AMHR papers. Quite frankly, few people are going to bother. The situation may be different for those in other areas where they can get the horse AMHA hardshipped without leaving their own town--but even then I rather imagine that very few people will bother paying out the money to do that. You're still looking at what--$460 in registration fees for the two registries plus whatever other fees must be paid out to the official who do the inspection for AMHA, the measuring for AMHR etc etc etc.

 

[dannigirl]

Hard to see in print but please know I am not trying to argue or make anyone right or wrong I am truly trying to understand how and why everyone feels this will impact our breed and gelding market more now then what we currently have in place so I can really see both sides before voting

I don't feel there is a right or wrong answer. Most of us have opinions and we all need to be heard. For me it really doesn't have a lot to do with the economy--even though that is a problem for most of us at this time. I just feel that adding more hardshipping when it was taken away just messes things up. I think we need to either leave things as they are or take it a step further and not allow any hardshipping at all.

Again, this is just my opinion. That and a couple of $ could get you something to drink on a hot day

 

[ctinsley]

Just my opinion. I think it would be hard for people that put the money into their colts, to let unregisterd stock be hardshipped. But, I do think that registered ASPC gelding being hardshipped should be allowed in at a lower price. This registry is ASPC/AMHR so these gelding are a part of the registry, I cannot see charging them the same price as a mare. In my "old world" of arabians geldings are a hot commodity and they need to be welcomed into our registry instead of discouraged by raising prices

 

[LaVern]

I agree that the registered ASPC geldings should continue be able to come into the AMHR, and whatever the fee is fine with me. BUT, I also feel that ALL that are to be hard shipped in should come parent qualified, so that we know that they truely are what they say they are-- registered Parent Qualified AMHA horses and Registered Parent Qualified ASPC horses or ponies. NOT- just DN'd, but Parent Qualified.

If you want your horses AMHR (and who doesn't) people must realize that it is a privilege and they can't just slap anything in. Money is not the issue here-- it is integrity.

 

[Minimor]

Well, by that token LaVern I would suggest that all foals then should be PQ'd before they are given their registration papers. If the ASPC geldings need to be PQ'd in order to be AMHR registered then the same should apply to all foals being AMHR registered.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

Before AMHR requires DNA or PQ'd on hardshipped horses they need to make it mandatory for registering AMHR and ASPC horses first.

I think IMO AMHR should always accept hardshipping in from ASPC ponies. Now do I think they should lower the price because they are already part of the registry, no I don't. I do think the geldings need to be lower then the mares but not by $50. Now will there come a time that we will close hardshipping for AMHA and Fabella? Yes I can see that happen, especially now that AMHA is closing its books, but yet that might give AMHR more opportunities to bring in more members and horses, but I don't know. When it comes to Fabella I don't know why we allow hardshipping from them, but whatever.

I think everyone understands we cannot allow unregistered geldings being hardshipped into AMHR. That wouldn't do anybody any good. I think what it comes down to it is the price of hardshipping. I still stand by what I said, geldings need to be lower then mares but not $50, $100 is more reasonable.

 

[minimomNC]

Could someone please post exactly where it states that the proposal is to allow hardshipping of all geldings. The way I read the proposal it doesn't say anything about changing the current rule of the horse has to be AMHA, ASPC or Falabella. All I see is a request to lower the hardship fee to register geldings. I see it as its still the same way, you still have to have a registered horse just like you do now but it would cost less for a gelding. What am I missing?