Harness..

[Sandee]

I bought a new harness at Nat'ls and what I thought were tugs are just loops and there are no "wrap" straps on the bellyband. So I think what I have is "quick release tugs". I've found some places advertising that they sell them but not a good description about how to use them.

Can anyone tell me? That excess strap hanging after the loop comes around (sorry can't explain well), does that get buckled into the buckles that are on the bellyband? How tight do you make it? Does it stay in place as well as the regular "wrap" straps I'm used to or do I need shaft stops with these?

Couldn't find any website explaining.

: Help!

 

[willowoodstables]

I strongly recommend a britching AND shaft stops with this type of tug (hate them).

Yes they do buckle into the extra buckle in the girth. If ordering a harness, ask for a wrap girth which has the extra long strap that you wrap aroud the tugs/shafts. I had that type of tug harness, so I cut off the hanging piece off the tug and ordered a wrap girth. I still use shaft stops with the wrap girth as well.

Hope this makes sense

Kim

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Those are a fairly standard option on carriage harnesses and are usually used with vehicles that have tug stops. I haven't tried them myself yet so I don't know how well they work but some of the local CDE people have them. They're sure faster to hook up than wrap straps! :new_shocked: They work well with vehicles that have floating shafts and use ADS-style harness configurations. For the breed shows I can't help but think that you're right and they'd be nothing but a pain. You really need breeching with them....

Leia

 

[Boinky]

I could be wrong..but i bet your talking about french tugs.. the strap comes off the side of one (really long strap?) should come under the belly and buckle back onto the little strap on the other tug! it basically keeps the shafts from going up and the tugs of course from going down. they are the same things only you don't have to "wrap" the wrap straps. Do you have any photo's of these?

 

[wiccanz]

I was thinking French tugs too...I love them, much neater & tidier than wrap straps, and very secure around the shaft (providing they are fitted correctly).

Forgot to add, I use neither breeching nor shaft stops with them, never had a problem, brakes are great!

 

[hobbyhorse23]

No, French tugs are different. They snug down around the shaft itself while these open tugs who's name I can't think of are perfectly ordinary fixed loops with a metal tab on the bottom and a leather strap that buckles into the overgirth. The shaft floats loose in the circle of the tug, sometimes actually floating when the cart is balanced perfectly. I have no idea how that works as far as sudden dips and rises, but no one seems to have problems with it. Like I said, they wouldn't work very well for the breed ring because you'd have to be using the breastcollar to pull and would need breeching to keep the shaft from coming forward through the open tug. Here's a picture of that kind of tug arrangement:

French tugs are the appropriate alternative if you don't want to use wrap straps. I believe Willowood has a picture of those on her Hackney's that maybe she could post?

Leia

 

[wiccanz]

Thanks Leia, now I see what you mean

As you say, the French tugs actually tighten around the shaft, whereas those appear to be simply loops that are held down by a strap. Yes, I would be using full harness with those. :bgrin

 

[Margo_C-T]

What you describe, if it is like the picture Leia put up, are simply open or English tugs--and yes, you should definitely use breeching and tug stops with them. Or, simply order 'plain' tug loops, and a wrapstrap. Contact the place you bought them from and inquire.

"Quick release" refers to making the tug loops with a type of hardware that allows the tug loop itself to open, quickly and easily, without the use of a usual buckle. It is commonly used with the short, loop/circle-end marathon-type shafts. I'm pretty sure that's not what you have, as it is not a 'standard' harness item, especially for Miniature horse harness! Actually, I am waiting on the place I got my last harnesses from-a beta single and beta pair harness-to let me know that her harness maker has successfully designed quick release hardware in a size suitable for miniature harness, as I want to order quick release tugs for the single harness, so I can use it with loop-end marathon shafts. They will be fairly costly(another reason why they aren't a 'standard' harness part!)

Margo

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Uw, Margo, let me know when that happens! I'd be interested too.

Leia

 

[rabbitsfizz]

This is the type of tug normal in the UK- you can see it has a separate strap that goes right over the tug and has a belly strap of it's own.

 

[Sandee]

This is the type of tug normal in the UK- you can see it has a separate strap that goes right over the tug and has a belly strap of it's own.

Thank you all so much. Hobbyhorse23 thanks for the picture but this is NOT what mine look like.

Rabbitsfizz, this is more what mine are like. I can adjust the length from a top buckle fastened to the saddle (top side) and then this strap loops around (I guess to go around the shaft) and then buckles into a buckle that is attached to a piece that "floats back and forth" on the bellyband. So are these then French tugs?? and do I need shaft stops?

 

[Boinky]

quite frankly i think even with wrap straps you should use tug stops. tug stops or breeching really should be used as there is nothing really there to keep everything from sliding through. Wrap straps should not be so tight that they cinch the shafts down which means they aren't going to be tight enough to hold the cart back with much momentum behind it. You can get away without (i've done it alot) them but really SHOULD for saftey measure have them in my experience! if what rabbit posted is what yours look like those are french tugs. they basically just go under the belly (by the girth) and come back up and buckle onto the outside of the tug loop on the other side. I have some myself and like them. Again i would suggest tug stops (for any harness).

 

[Sandee]

ok finally I got a picture. Hope you can understand this and can help. What's this type of tug called and do I NEED shaft stops to use it? This is show harness and they do not use breeching.

 

[Margo_C-T]

Well, the photo won't come up for me, so I can't be sure, but if the tug loop itself can be 'snugged down' around the shaft, so that it actually 'grips' the shaft, then that is generally described as a French tug(there is a similar type, common on Lutke harnesses, that is called a 'Tilbury' tug; works the same way-that is, by being able to 'slide'the strap end(the loop being constructed of a continuous strap)through a 'tongueless buckle' of sorts, to tighten around, and 'grip', the shaft, then that shaft end buckles into a strap, with a buckle at each end, that mounts on top of the girth via 'keepers', that it will slide.) Same for both sides of the horse. I really couldn't tell if that's the 'set up' in rabbitsfizz' photo, but my guess is that it IS of that type. I've yet to see an explanation of what, if any, difference there is between a French and a Tilbury tug--my own thought has been that it depends on the origin, and I have presumed that 'Tilbury' was of English origin, but ??? I do know that you ask for 'Tilbury' tugs when ordering from Lutke, if the 'snug down' type is what you want. I have recently read(a reliable source) that this type of tug is proper only for gig type shafts,and gig harness, however(and you don't see that in the miniature horse show ring very often, if at all!) Because Portia recommended that I order Tilbury tugs when I got my first Lutke harness, I did--one thing I found IMMEDIATELY was that they mangled my shaft covers! I believe they are popular for mini horse show harness because they are 'minimalist' in appearance-less bulk even than refined wrap straps--and since open tugs with a holddown strap(as in the picture Leis posted) should absolutely be used with breeching (and tug stops),and(right or wrong?),and, people don't/won't use breeching--the choice becomes Tilbury/French tugs. One needs to be very careful not to exert DOWNWARD pressure when buckling the holddown OR wrapstraps into the overgirth on ANY harness, as this means discomfort(too much pressure on the harness saddle)for the horse. The basic purpose of those is to prevent the shafts of a CART(=, two wheeler)from flying upwards(and the cart tipping over backwards and dumping its driver/passengers!) when mounting/sitting in the cart, but there should NOT be a downward "pull" on the shafts from the holddowns/wrapstraps! The horse is supposed to draw the weight of cart and occupant(s) via the breast collar or neck collar, and the traces--NOT the tugs-with Tilbury/French tugs, one needs to be sure that the traces are of a proper length so that that the horse does not end up 'pulling' with the tugs. I would strongly recommend properly-positioned tug stops with this type of tug.

Margo