Heads up on Performance All Star contenders

[LaVern]

Holy Cow. My old head can't even go there. I thought that, say if you had a pretty good horse out doing a bunch of stuff , say roaster and park and versatiliy and driving obstacle liberty and whatever else, you could ad the points all together.

But getting back to the horse that could do it all, I keep thinking about this topic. Breeding, that is I what I do. And the horse that can do it all is what I strive for.

Pucky with his 26 Grands in Halter, Champion of Champions up the wazoo, I don’t know how many Supremes in AMHA, All Star Awards. His National Titles in Open Pleasure.His Hall of Fame in Halter and Open pleasure. Then we put him inside a Train and ask him to drive blind. “Okay,” he says.

The next year we put him in Roaster and Park Harness and he takes National Stake Grand Park and Reserve Roaster among a bunch of other titles. Down the line I would love to see him in Obstacle and Hunter and versatility. But, he doesn’t like to jump.

Then there’s old Express -National Grand Halter –National Grand Open Driving and I know that he could do the other stuff if someone could teach him. He’s a smart old guy.

Why can’t we try to Breed Horses that can do it all. They sholdn't be less,if they can do all these things I think they are better, or at least that is why I got into the miniature business to try to breed a little horse that could do it all very well.

 

[My-Lil-Pony]

Belinda are you saying that the only class that counts for this award is open classes and placings or points in say Amateur, Ladies, Gentlemens, Youth in the same division like Country Pleasure do not count?

 

[Belinda]

It is my understanding that only open classes count , because the other classes all limit who can participate in them it has to be OPEN to EVERYONE ..

And Renee your Guy Puck is Awesome and I want to also Congratulate you and Renee and Puck on winning the All Star Park Harness ..

 

[horsefeather]

I SO agree with those who want all performance classes to count equally. I couldn't tell you tho how many judges I have worked for that absolutely HATE obstacle and a lot of them don't even pay good attention to the class! Several nicer comments were "It's like watching grass grow." I reminded them that it takes TIME to make a truly GOOD obstacle horse. Unfortunately, because so many halter people and BNT don't want to take the time away from halter classes to have a really difficult obstacle course it does become boring sometimes (I SO miss Sue Price!!). My thought has always been a judge should have to have shown in every class he/she judges! (Yeah, like that would ever happen)

I would love to go to convention and support something like txminipinto is saying. Went this year because it was close but with it being in Florida, and the economy like it is, there is absolutely no way I can afford it.

I agree the name should be changed to Driving Horse of the Year as it's definately NOT the Performance Horse of the Year!

JMHO

Pam

 

[Yaddax3]

I plan to submit a proposal to AMHR before the July 1 deadline in support of recognizing an all-around performance mini. We have one such mini -- Classique's Phantom Gold -- who won 2008 AMHR Nationals championships in six classes: Amateur Roadster, Amateur Park Harness and Open Park Harness, as well as Adult Jumper, Amateur Jumper and Liberty. He also is the only mini ever to achieve nine Hall of Fames. He is the epitome of an all-around performance mini, and I believe horses like Phantom deserve recognition.

I have found our AMHR-ASPC board of directors to be fair-minded and open, and I think they would consider such a recognition award. Of course, the current Performance Horse of the Year award should continue to be awarded.

I recall an earlier post about mini jumps set up in a U configuration. Please let me know which shows use these courses. I'd love to exhibit on such a course instead of all the twists and turns on the courses we're accustomed to in our area and at Nationals.

I'm also a little puzzled when people talk about it taking "more time to train a good driving horse as opposed to a good jumping horse."

Having trained good jumping horses -- five of our horses have won 12 National championships and seven Reserve National titles in both Hunter and Jumper classes at AMHR Nationals and Shetland Congress since 2005 -- I know it takes more, a lot more, than pointing a horse at a jump. It took two show seasons involving many hours, weeks and months of work to get one horse to agree to go over one jump, and it finally paid off when he won Adult Jumper and Amateur Hunter at Shetland Congress, and also took Reserve Champion in Amateur Jumper.

As for Sandee saying "winning or losing should be on the horse, not on whether the handler is in 'good shape' to run." Winning Jumper classes involves a lot more than speed.

There's a synergy between the handler and horse, and a trust.

I'm far from the fastest person in most Jumper classes, particularly at AMHR Nationals and Shetland Congress. Yet at 52, Phantom and I won Adult Jumper Under and Amateur Jumper Under, and Whispering Hill Farm Magician and I won the Reserve National title in Amateur Jumper Over. D&S Double Dutch Chocolate and I won the aforementioned Adult Jumper and Amateur Hunter classes at Shetland Congress, as well as that Reserve National title in Amateur Jumper. (I messed up our synergy in that Amateur Jumper class; we had the fastest time but I got anxious and ran ahead of Dutch for the final jump and he ticked it, which is a penalty in ASPC.)

Between AMHR Nationals and Shetland Congress, there are six Jumper classes for adults. Our horses won National championships or Reserve National titles in five of the six Jumper classes for adults. It wasn't because of speed. It was because of synergy, trust and many, many, many hours of work to build that synergy and trust.

A driving horse will drive for anyone -- probably not as good as the person it's used to, but it will drive. I know many minis and Shetlands that will not even attempt a jump unless it's with someone with whom there's a synergy and trust.

But if you think training a jumper is easy, step up and kick my butt as well as the butts of all the other people I know who spend many hours working and training their horses to become competitive jumpers. Just because there aren't many professional trainers who jump does not mean the jumping horses aren't highly trained.

My wife, Mary, me and two of our children, 13-year-old Samantha and 11-year-old Sawyer, have won National championships in Hunter and/or Jumper classes because we jump our horses at home throughout the show season. Because we've developed synergy and trust with the horses we jump.

I know I come off as defensive, arrogant, boastful and curmudgeonly, all of which I am. But I also believe classes such as Hunter, Jumper. Liberty and Obstacle should not be minimized and horses that achieve success in those classes deserve recognition every bit as much as driving horses.

 

[Humhill]

Ah yes, it does take years of training for a large horse to excel in hunter, but let's face it, a lot more is expected out of those horses than a mini hunter.

The courses are very specific - certain number of strides expected between each set of jumps, flying lead changes, of course no charging, good form over the jump, etc. 95% of Mini/Shetland hunter classes that I see are simply sets of poles set up in a U configuration -- Sorry, not going to buy that it takes a lot of time to train a horse to jump individual poles in a half circle course configuration.

I have to disagree here. It takes more training than you would think. I've put a lot of work into my hunter. Granted, the courses aren't always very challenging. But, it takes time to get the horse to learn when to take off for the fence, pace, working together as a team, etc. Not to mention, when you ride a horse, you have more aids to use -- with minis, all you have the is the lead and your voice. No seat or leg aids, which are two of the most important aids in "big" hunters. Some people do just take their horse out to do hunter just to have another class to go in or to chase points. But, some of us work very hard on our hunters and are very proud of them.

It doesn't always take a lot of time to train them to "jump individual poles in a half circle course configuration" but it does take time to teach them to do it well.

 

[My-Lil-Pony]

Yaddex it is so refreshing to hear from someone who has accomplished so much and is very much into promoting those truly all around horses. As someone who was wavering about staying in this mini you have really given me a lot to think about and look forward to. Thank you!

Whoever said that there is already a HOF award for these classes well so to for the Driving classes. I am also curious as to why a committee? Is there anything else besides points that contributes to the decision of the winner? Has there ever been a tie or would the committee then make the choice which horse to award it to?

 

[targetsmom]

I value the truly versatile horse (of any size) which is why we breed and show PINTOS. I haven't read every word of this thread but I think people are concentrating a bit too much on the Champions and ignoring the fact that the most versatile horse may not win first, but just be consistent. The comment that the driving horse will always win because of the number of points awarded, misses the point that the SECOND place driving horse who competes in other events might just turn out to be the most versatile. That is more or less what happened at our Pinto shows this past year where we have 9 mini classes including halter, color, hunter, jumper, trail in hand, obstacle driving, pleasure driving, disciplined rail driving, and ideal pinto driving. Our mare Aloha Acres Fasion by Magic is only getting one year end high point this year (in trail) but she got lots of Reserves and placed no lower that THIRD in any of the other classes. She was High Point mini at 3 of our 4 shows (all classes to count) and should be our Club's High Point Mini of the year. The horses that did best in driving didn't compete in all the events. Oh, and I am not young either - and competing with multiple horses in hunter and jumper!).

 

[Sandee]

Amen, Yaddax! I'm glad you're going to submit a proposal. But you've really misunderstood me when I say that the class should be won by the horse not the fastest handler. I was there; I saw how you and several other gentlemen can run (a beat away from heartattack is what it looks like). I simply can't cover ground like even the old guys in the golden age can. But my "girl" puts up with me even if I do hold her back! I've messed up the jumps; gotten the obstacle course wrong and she stills performs her heart out for me. I just wish there was a way for her and others like her to be recognized for their accomplishments as horses. She can clear all the jumps but I'm the one that can't do it in under XX seconds. For instance AMHA raises the jumps and does not "time" the event.

But we do agree that when they say Performance it should include more than driving classes just because they are the ones that have "championship" competition classes.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

Yaddax I totally agree. A horse like Phantom Gold is truly an example of why we need to promote the all-around performance horse of the year.

IMO any horse can show in halter, and most of the time any horse can drive. BUT, it takes alot more time and trust to train a horse to jump and do obstacle. I will take brains over looks any day. My goal is to produce that #1 versatility horse. I think that horse deserves the respect that it should and honestly should represent our registry to a great extent.

Pam I also agree with you. As a person who shows in halter obstacle that is sad to hear that these judges just don't care. I defintelly feel that some of these in-hand performance classes are defintelly back in peoples minds at shows, which is sad but you can't please everybody. I am just happy too see driving getting so huge its defintelly more entered in it at shows then halter is. Hope to see you and Curt at the shows this year.

 

[horsehug]

Excellent post, Yaddax3!!

And congratulations!!

Susan O.

 

[txminipinto]

Bob, THANK YOU for chiming in. Of all the people in the world to be pushing for the all around horse, the Sanseveres have it over EVERYBODY. The Sanseveres define ALL AROUND.

 

[whitney]

I agree with the award being given to best OVERALL horse. However I don't believe liberty should be included its a movement class either they have it or they don't it can't be trained into them.

Edited to add I think the in hand classes are harder to train than the driving. You have a course to memorize, handlers fitnesss AND training the horse to be on the same page as the handler. Over sitting in a cart giggling your fingers, walk, trot, reverse and back, don't get me wrong I LOVE DRIVING especially the older I get.

 

[icspots]

I agree with the award being given to best OVERALL horse. However I don't believe liberty should be included its a movement class either they have it or they don't it can't be trained into them.

I think you're under crediting Liberty, sure it requires natural talent, but a GOOD liberty horse will CONSISTENTLY show all gaits, lead changes AND provide an easy, graceful catch...they just don't come out of the box that way, somebody has to do some work with them!

 

[ckmini]

I agree with the award being given to best OVERALL horse. However I don't believe liberty should be included its a movement class either they have it or they don't it can't be trained into them.

I disagree. As Bob mentioned with his hunter/jumpers its a relationship between horse and handler, so is true for Liberty. My horses "train" every time we enter the round pen and every time they are given a verbal command. Yes, liberty takes talent that can't be "trained in" just as a top driving horse isn't trained to move a certain way or a top hunter isn't trained to have tight knees. These take talent. So I have to disagree with you, I think liberty should be counted towards an all-around performance horse of the year award.

 

[Sandee]

To me Liberty is too much a "personal opinion" of the judges. I know what the rules read and my filly changes gaits, covers the entire arena, and comes to me at the end when called. She just doesn't have the "flash"/tail flagging and the high steping trot. Those can't be trained - at least I haven't figured out how!