herd dynamics

[krissy3]

I have some herd dynamics that I d like to get oppinions on before I add a newcommer. My family consists of a 5 year old alpha mare a 4 year old gelding that is glued to Alpha mares side, a 30 year old gelded donkey that belongs to my husband, donkey is at the bottom of the pecking order and verbally gripes about it , and a 3 year old (in may) mare that is an ear pinner, and kicker.

1st . question ....before I feed , when they know I am going to feed, alpha mare chases gelding and bites him on the fanny, its now a ritual

3 year old mare waits in the stall , and donkey sort of verbally gripes and pouts , and walks in last. What is the biting about, and is it something I need to get involved in , or let it be as long as no one is getting hurt?

2. 3 year old mare hates the donkey because he use to chase her when she first arrived, its now pay back time and she is a kicker if he comes near her . If The Donkey was smaller, I would be more upset , but he is 2x her size, and he can defend himself if he needs to. Is the ear pinning and kicking something this mare will grow out of ? and 2nd , for a "spirited " little begger like this one how strict do I need to be with her to keep her in line. How do you deal with the ear pinners?

3. I got this new 7 year old gelding to hopefully pair up with my ear pinner mare that currently does not have a buddy, I am hoping that the alpha and gelding will continue to buddy up , and the new horse and ear pinner will buddy up , and the dang donkey can live his senior days in peace. Its only the ear pinner that hates the donk, but as I said the first month she was here the donkey was very aggressive towards her and she didnt know how to defend herself, now she does , and shes not taking any chances.. I know I need to keep new horse separate for the first 2 weeks or so so they can get use to eachother, any other suggestions on how this dynamic will unfold once he is here? I had the ear pinner at a trainers for 1 month , and she really loved being with another mare that she could buddy up with they were so sweet together.... this is what made me want a friend for her. Right now I would say the herd is 2 and 1 and 1 ...Id like it to be 2 and 2 and 1 ..(the donkey being 1, I give him plenty of special alone time)

any ideas?

Krissy

 

[ruffian]

It's virtually impossible to guess on herd dynamics. The new one may end up alpha mare, or below the donkey.

Can you separate anybody? if you put the donk and the new horse together they MAY pair up, and then stay friends when put with the herd.

 

[albahurst]

Hi Krissy!

Boy, what FUN you will have with your herd of cuties

Please let us all know how it goes !!!

Has your new boy gotten to quarantine yet? You will have him SOON!!!

Peggy

 

[krissy3]

Hi Krissy!Boy, what FUN you will have with your herd of cuties

Please let us all know how it goes !!!

Has your new boy gotten to quarantine yet? You will have him SOON!!!

Peggy

No Chico is still on the truck , I am worried sick.. I have a St Francisco in our Kitchen with a candle burning 24/7 for his safty. I am sure he will be fine. He isnt expected until tomorrow morning , he left Friday. Yea, the herd will be interesting. I will pair up ear pinner with Chico after he gets settled in. It would make things a lot smoother if spring would come . will keep you posted Peggy , i am really excited.... he is going to be GREAT !!! oUr first show is May 22nd in Holland, hope thats not too soon for him. I will just have to see how he settles in, if he needs more time we will skip the show. Hotel closes for 2 months April 10th... so that gives me plenty of time to get to know him.

 

[albahurst]

Hi Krissy!Boy, what FUN you will have with your herd of cuties

Please let us all know how it goes !!!

Has your new boy gotten to quarantine yet? You will have him SOON!!!

Peggy

No Chico is still on the truck , I am worried sick.. I have a St Francisco in our Kitchen with a candle burning 24/7 for his safty. I am sure he will be fine. He isnt expected until tomorrow morning , he left Friday. Yea, the herd will be interesting. I will pair up ear pinner with Chico after he gets settled in. It would make things a lot smoother if spring would come . will keep you posted Peggy , i am really excited.... he is going to be GREAT !!! oUr first show is May 22nd in Holland, hope thats not too soon for him. I will just have to see how he settles in, if he needs more time we will skip the show. Hotel closes for 2 months April 10th... so that gives me plenty of time to get to know him.

Try not to worry about Chico! He will get to quarantine in great shape

Won't be long and you two will be having a great time together!!!

 

[hobbyhorse23]

On question 1, the alpha mare biting the gelding on the butt before feeding, it sounds like she's simply reminding him that she's the boss and she gets the food first. That's pretty normal for a certain kind of alpha and the gelding probably doesn't think of it as cruel or unusual. As long as she does let him eat and doesn't go overboard with it I wouldn't worry.

As for your 3 year old ear pinner and the donkey, I can't blame her for her attitude. It may settle in time or she may always be a little defensive around him as she's always going to see him as someone who threatens her. The good news is it sounds like she doesn't carry that attitude over to other horses based on what you said about her and the other mare when she was at the trainer's. She may or may not get along well with the gelding but I bet you bunches she's going to be the alpha in that pairing and may be pushy about it.

Frankly I think what I'd consider doing is separating the current herd by gender (put the two mares together for awhile and leave the gelding with the donkey) and see what happens. I'd add Chico to the pen with the boys and let him buddy up with the other gelding, then put the whole group back together when some friendships have formed. At the very least this should break up some of the aggressive pairings and give everyone a chance to start fresh.

Just my thoughts!

Leia

 

[Miniv]

My two thoughts are.......

1. Leia's idea is an interesting one. By totally switching them around it shakes up the dynamics a bit, so your new gelding won't be the ONLY one in a new situation.

2. As long as none of them are so aggressive that they keep another from actually eating or drinking, I'd let them sort things out on their own.

Let us know what you decided to do and how it all sorts out.......This should be interesting.

 

[Joanne]

More room, less problems.

Either seperate them more, or give them a larger area. JMHO

 

[krissy3]

More room, less problems.
Either seperate them more, or give them a larger area. JMHO

I always freak out about providing enough space, last time the vet was out I asked him if there was enough space to add 1 more , his reply was a big laugh , followed by , you have enough for at least 6 more ...

Lias idea is creative , I like it ...will have to think more about this idea. My stall floor plan is "open" at the moment, meaning there are no particians, its an old pig stall and one wall is made of glass brick , and the rest are 15 inch cement walls

great insolation but dificult to make separate partitions, I just have a separate room attached to the stall that I used when ear pinner was new. As long as the snow is gone , I can set up outside pens with my pipe pannels, and put 2 in the large pig stall its 30 x15 feet, and then there is that other room 8x8 or so, with the small door so they can see eathother. The pasture will be devided...donk with shetlands , and ear pinner with newbe , and me between all of then being the ref. The ear pinner just hates the donk, and alpha mare just gives a gentile bite in the fanny. If I didnt have hubbys donk there would be no problems, I could (but wouldnt ) just throw them all out in the huge pasture together and let them work things out . Gelding is a saint and likes everyone, alpha is a director , but not mean, and ear pinner is also good with others . Everything sort of revolves around the mood of "Der Willy".

My guess is that newbe ends up between the gelding and ear pinner , then comes the ear pinner , and then Donk.The bond between Blonco and quelly is very strong, they even sleep together with their heads on eachother. Right now the weather is so nice that they no longer have to be in the stall at night, I just leave the door open so they can go in and out. will let you kow what happens in 1 month when he is here. anyone want to help me post him ... I cant from my computer for some reason , even when I shrink the photo down.

thanks

krissy