Hip Lock

[supaspot]

Ive had to reposition foals several times in the past and Im pretty confident in most situations but I have never experienced hip lock and wondered if anyone can give advice as to the best method of getting them out , I found this piece below via google , can anyone advise further please

"Hip Lock is a situation where all appears well with the foaling and then the foal just stops progressing after it is half way out. Of course the first thing to determine is whether this is a dog-sitting situation or a hip lock. Obviously if it was a dog-sitting dystocia, a rear leg would be found in the vagina. No rear hoof is present with hip lock. With all of the foals we have delivered, we have yet to experience a hip locked foal. Below is the recommendation of one veterinarian as to how to correct the Hip Lock situation.

"Hip lock occurs when a foal's hips get stuck inside the bony pelvis. The mare's pelvic opening is shaped like an oval and not a circle. This is supposed to allow for the hips to easily pass through. If the mare is standing pull the foal downward so the hips flip up into the pelvis and then through. If the mare is on her side, first have someone hold the mare's tail to anchor the mares body. Pull the foal out, arching it slightly upward toward the mare's tail and occasionally through the mare's hind legs to pop the hips up and through. If this doesn't work, do the same but bending the foal to one side to pull one hip through the pelvis at a time."

 

[drmatthewtaylor]

Hip lock tends to be caused by either over sized fetus (especially in the rear end) or under sized dam's pelvis, 2 conditions that are uncommon in equines. It is far more common in beef cattle and a little.

The oval described above goes up and down. In hip lock the hips are side ways. What needs done is to rotate the body to put the hips up and down. Sometimes a bear hug the fetus to rotate. Other times I pull the fetus toward the dam's flank and wrapping it around her rump tends to rotate it.

I was concerned about your comment;

Ive had to reposition foals several times in the past and Im pretty confident in most situations

dystocia is quite uncommon in equines and either 1) folks intervene too early, or 2) are breeding with a line that is genetically predisposed to dystocia.

I hope you never have to experience a hip lock, they suck.

Dr. Taylor

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I have had this a few times and it is no joke- IME you cannot "pull the foal out" and should be very wary of trying- you can do this with a cow but not a horse, be warned! What you really need to do is push the foal back, a tiny, tiny bit makes all the difference as you are repositioning the hind legs, which are often dropped down and crossed over- try to turn the foal slightly as you do this. The main problem I found was that, because we had waited so long, the swelling in the birth canal was acting against us, and loads and LOADS of lube is needed and a very strong pair of arms- I was not strong enough and, at the time, I was pretty strong. Whilst pushing against the foal (wait for contractions to at least pause) you turn the foal slightly to one side- it does not seem to matter which so go with whatever you get- and then pull, down towards the hind legs, remember, never out in line with the spine- if you do not get an immediate response stop and do the whole thing again. I know instinct is to get the foal out but you are trying t save the mare at this point, and prevent a prolapsed uterus, so I am afraid the foal has to take it's chances! Have a big bucket of as cold as you can get it, water ready, once the foal is out immerse (not the HEAD, NOT the head!!!) this can often "jump start" a foal that was ready to give up- the shock of the cold water will make it take an inrush of breath and you are away- PLEASE check if the foal is breathing before doing this, it is only if the foal is NOT breathing that you need extreme measures and you need two people at this point, one to look after the mare and one to take care of the foal. If you only have one I would settle on the foal as the mare is usually OK for a couple of minutes but a prolapsed uterus is a very possible outcome, so really, your Vet should be turning into your barn yard by now!!

This is my worst nightmare- I have been through it too many times- I have lost a foal, and I lost a foal and then the mare due to enclosed pyometra, three days later, and then, the last time, I actually got the foal OK and the mare was OK too, but I recognised the symptoms by then and did not wait for the swelling to get too bad. I always "interfere" I am afraid, I would not have a child without a midwife, so I do not expect my mares, or my dogs or may cats to do so either.

 

[stormy]

Sometimes what appears to be hiplock can be a dog sitting position with the hind feet trying to come thru at the same time as the hips so be sure to check...either presentation is no fun to fix and a live foal is somewhat of a miracle.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Stormy, I agree- and I should have put that in- always always always check the number of feet you have presented- even a foot tucked innocently behind an ear can be a hind, not a fore foot!

 

[Debby - LB]

Dr. Taylor respectfully I'll have to comment here about you mentioning this twice: dystocia is quite uncommon in equines

I don't know how many miniature horse births you've attended but dystocia is very common in miniature horses.

1) folks intervene too early, or 2) are breeding with a line that is genetically predisposed to dystocia. <== sorry, definitely disagree on both.

Here is a site I've had bookmarked forever it has good illustrations. Copy and paste this link in your browser: shenandoahmini.com/situations.html

and one Michelle from Wesco posted some years back of a copy she made from the AMHA dystocia chart: wescofarms.blogspot.com/2011/03/dystocia-chart.html

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I have to agree with this, I have been breeding minis for 35 years now and have seen far more dystocias in Minis than any other breed- not all are serious, but all the ones I have seen have required intervention, and very immediate and quick, intervention at that.

 

[Debby - LB]

I tell people who say they've never had one to add a "yet" to the end of that because it will happen.

 

[Riverrose28]

Dr. Taylor, I so respect you and look forward to your posts, but must agree with the others here on this subject. We started breeding arabs in 1978, then paints, never had a dystocia other then one foal did tear the mares rectum with one of the advancing front hooves. Minis are a whole different ballgame.

As to the subject of hip lock, I've had both, hip lock and dog sitting, couldn't tell the difference until I explored the vaginal canal. Both time vet was on the way. Both times foals were lost. Actually my vet thinks they were lost before the dystocia, but that is just my cases. We tried with the hip lock to cross the front legs of the foal and push back to no luck. the vet twisted the foal and pulled down while the mare was up on her feet and the foal was disengaged. With the dog sitting, this was a long awaited foal bred specifically to our stallion that carries a dilut gene for palamino, the mare carries red. Presentation started normally, vet was called as soon as first stage was noted, and arrived as the foal presented, believe me I have lots of experience but this foal was going to be our future herd sire or brood mare. Any way all progress stopped, foal was not able to breath even after I had removed the sack, after two contractions, vet was scrubbing up and I reached in and got past the hips thinking hip lock, there was room, and mare had foaled before. By then the vet was ready and she tried, hubby lifted up lifless foal so she could get underneath, while farm help and I kept mare on her feet and walking. Vet moved the blocking foot up and back and foal slid out, but gone. Cord was twisted, and that is suppossed to be an uncommon ocurrence in equines too, but I know it happens. Hope you don't have to go through this as both of these are hard ones to correct.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

OH RR that is heartbreaking! I think "dog sitting" has to be the worst of the "possible" dystocias- it is not really possible in a BH as you could not physically do what you tried doing, but it can be, just about, "possible" in a Mini, especially if you were able to sedate the mare and lift her up. I think though it is a chicken and egg situation- it is more than possible that your foal had gone some time before and that was why you got the dystocia- the worst dysticia I have had, and not a "possible" one I lost the mare- was the head folded back over the foal's shoulder. I knew the foal was dead, in this case, it had died the previous day.

 

[ohmt]

Last year we had a maiden mare whose foal died in utero. The foal not only had its head back, but front legs back and back legs forward. It was absolutely horrible and our vet, who had just delivered her own baby the day before, took an hour to get the poor little guy out. Mare was sedated, thank goodness. It was all just taking the time and my wonderful vet envisioning where everything should go to get it straightened out. The worst part is moving one part only to have another fixed part move back. Sometimes strings can help with that, but in this case my vet just wanted to work it out herself.

Luckily the mare had zero nerve damage and only one little tear that healed quickly.

I can correct most dystocias here, but there are a few that I won't touch. My vet is too good at what she does not to utilize her. I do not check foal position unless there is pushing for 5 minutes without progress. I agree with Dr Taylor in that we tend to interfere more than is necessary, but after those 5 min I do have to check.

 

[supaspot]

Thankyou all for your advice , I do hope I never need it ,of course our vet is called as soon as theres a problem but I just like to have some knowledge because you never know how long it will be before someone arrives , maybe I do step in too early , the first mini mare that I ever foaled out ended up having a C Section because I didnt step in soon enough, so now I dont wait , if theyre not progressing I have to feel why not , I just wanted to add that the few dystocias that Ive had have been from different mares not related to each other at all , Ive been lucky for that last few years and havent had a problem but that doesnt stop me worrying !!

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I go in and feel first thing- if everything is as it should be, that is when I will sit back and let nature take it's course. It does not take a minute, if you are scrubbed and ready, and it is well worth it for peace of mind....

 

[drmatthewtaylor]

It does not surprise me that my comments were met with disagreement. Let's discuss them.

I assert that reproduction in general and dystocias in particular have many factors and one of them is genetics.

If we believe we can select for conformation, color, action, style, coat pattern, motion, and head set, then why not reproduction?

Many will agree those factors are obviously genetic, but reproduction isn't so obvious. So maybe it's not genetic. I would then argue temperament. Most of us would believe temperament is genetic. But how? What causes temperament? Although I can't see it, I can predict when breeding.

Valley Victory was a standardbred stallion who produced many fast horses, but his poor quality semen was well known. His sons generally had poor semen as well. If stallions can inherit poor fertility than why not mares?

For many decades Holstein dairy cattle were bred based on milk production. Calvings are almost always watched and frequently assisted. Most calves are given colostrum and shots immediately following birth, yet dairy calves died all the time. Beef calves aren't watched, aren't born in a barn, and aren't given any shots, yet most of them live. Dairy producers are beginning to understand maybe we need to learn from beef producers.

I simply do not accept the premise that 'well minis are little so reproduction issues including dystopias are going to happen and you can't change that'.

By the way, my family has raised ponies and minis for over 50 years, my father has been the mini breeder of the year AMHR and raised some that produced AMHA world champions. We recall 2 dystocias in the last 15 yrs while raising about 750 head (not all of which were minis) and one dystocias Dad thinks he intervened too early. I do not believe those things are by chance. We selectively breed for reproduction as well as other factors.

Typed on my phone, sorry about grammatical errors.

Dr. Taylor

 

[horsehug]

Thanks for an excellent post, Dr Taylor

Susan O.

 

[stormy]

Sometimes i think dstocia is related to management to. After having worked on various broodmare farms, Arabs, Standardbred, Quarter horse, foaling out a dozen or more mares a year it seemed the mares that were housed inside with little time spent in turnout had more issues then mares kept in paddocks until they were close to delivering then allowed daily turnout up to foaling...just an observation, not really on topic but I think many factors come into play...genetics, breeders choice of stallion to mare, management, and I am sure many others.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

As I have said before, I "jump in" and always shall, in exactly the same way that I bring my old stallion in out of the rain to help prolong his life- an ounce of prevention is worth ten pounds of cure. I lost one of the first Arab foals I ever bred because we sat and watched. It was text book delivery, it just took too long and the foal died in the birth canal. If we had gone in and helped the mare the foal would have been fine. Never again. Never again shall I sit and watch as a foal I could have helped live, died, This was my promise to him as I buried him and I have always kept it. Yes, I have lost foals since, but not because I did not intervene. I lost just that one Arab foal and PB Arab and Welsh, that was the only one I ever lost. The Minis? I have lost count! Dystocias are most definitely a Mini thing, and the size of the animal does have something to do with it. Does breeding count? Possibly, but since I would not breed form a mare who had a poor breeding record, I shall never know. I still have my fair share of dystocias, though. and I have been breeding Minis for 35 years.

 

[drmatthewtaylor]

Sometimes i think dstocia is related to management to. After having worked on various broodmare farms, Arabs, Standardbred, Quarter horse, foaling out a dozen or more mares a year it seemed the mares that were housed inside with little time spent in turnout had more issues then mares kept in paddocks until they were close to delivering then allowed daily turnout up to foaling...just an observation, not really on topic but I think many factors come into play...genetics, breeders choice of stallion to mare, management, and I am sure many others.

I completely agree. Fat and out of shape dams tend to have more problems.

Dr. Taylor

 

[Hosscrazy]

You've received some very good advice here from very well experienced, knowledgable miniature horse breeders, and I'm glad to hear that you have a qualified vet that you work closely with.

Liz N.

 

[drmatthewtaylor]

I would like to reiterate my analogy of Holstein versus Beef cattle and reproductive efficiencies. Holsteins do not have particular lines that are significantly worse than others within their breed (although some lines are subtly better than others), rather the entire breed lags behind Beef cattle in this regard. The problem was not this Holstein bull or that Holstein cow line, but rather the breed as a whole (for all its wonderful other qualities) lacked in this area. This deficiency was produced by decades of breeding choices that were determined by milk production rather than reproductive traits. As some farmers have started to realize this and use reproduction (and longevity within the herd) as selection criterion, then they realized breedings using Holstein genetics would produce slow improvement at best. These farmers have decided to go outside of the breed to get the desired traits and thus have added Jersey blood to their Holsteins.

I would like mini breeders to consider the shepherds of Australia. They go on vacation during the lambing season. Their rationale is they don't even want a ewe who can't survive having a lamb, so any ewe who doesn't show up after lambing season was kind enough to cull herself. They don't want a ewe that can't raise a lamb on her own, so any ewe who returns alive but without a lamb will be culled. And they don't want a lamb (especially for a replacement ewe) that can't survive with just the help of mom. I know this sounds harsh, but after decades of this rigorous selective pressure Australian ewes have good reproductive capabilities and lambs have significant vigor at birth. So, which is kinder? Helping over and over trying to get every 'good' mare in foal, helping her foal, and helping every neonatal foal survive OR selectively breeding breeding so mother and baby are capable of surviving on their own??

Bulldog breeders did not intend to produce an animal who (generally) couldn't breed naturally and (usually) required a C-section to give birth, they just didn't use reproduction in their breeding selections. It has produced a breed that has a lot of monetary value, but at what cost?

Dr. Taylor