hitching to a vehicle

[squeaky]

So I recently just watched the Clay Maier "Train your Horse to Drive," and was a little surprised to see how he first hitches his horses to the cart. He has his "station," which is a blocker tie ring on a sturdy post at one end of the arena. He does everything with the horse at the station, from grooming, to desensitizing and also hitching of the cart. What got me, was that he hitched the horse while tied for the first time to the cart, and the knot he had on the lead rope was not quick release. I know that on the main forum there was the "Pet Peeves" post, and one topic that came up was people who hitch their horse while tied to the trailer. I think it irks almost every experienced driver to see someone doing this. But, what if they watched this video and that is what they learned? While Clay Maier certainly takes the time to make sure his horse is prepared to stand still for everything, and does say that the most important thing for the driving horse to stand still, I just feel that a newbie wouldn't understand the importance of this. How can we teach people the correct way, when this is what they think is correct? Please understand this is not a bash against Clay Maier at all. I completely admire his way of training, and his methods. It was just the tying for the first hitch (or any hitch for that matter), and the knot used was not a quick release knot, that really bothered me. I thought it was ironic that we on this board always complain about how often you see this, but when its on an informational training DVD, how can we convince people it's not right?

Amanda

ETA: After Sue's post I realized that I was more concerned about the non-quick release knot more than anything else. I am ok with hitching while tied, as long as the time is taken for the horse to stand, and that the knot is easy to release. You just never know when something might happen...

 

[Sue_C.]

I tie my green horses for hitching...but with a "hitching halter" OVER the bridle, and always tied with a quick release knot. I have seen and watched Clay in person, and never even noticed the knot...good pick-up!!

 

[RhineStone]

It was just the tying for the first hitch (or any hitch for that matter), and the knot used was not a quick release knot, that really bothered me. I thought it was ironic that we on this board always complain about how often you see this, but when its on an informational training DVD, how can we convince people it's not right?

Tell them to get Mary Ruth Marks' "Teach Your Horse to Drive" DVD set instead!

 

[hobbyhorse23]

I'm one who hitches while tied and has no problem with that (or with Clay Maier's methods, although of course there are certain things I personally disagree with) but would never tie any horse, hitched or not, with anything except a quick release!! Yipes.

Leia

ETA: Aren't the blocker tie rings themselves quick release some how?

 

[jleonard]

I haven't seen the video, but we use the blocker tie rings at the riding for the handicapped program I work at and they do "release". The whole point of them is that they allow the rope to slide through so the horse does not feel restrained and panic should they pull back. The rope is supposed to have a knot in the end so it doesn't just slide all the way though.

 

[squeaky]

They are quick release, but only if you run the rope through the rings in the way that they show you in the manual. He had it the rope tied to where it couldn't give the release if the horse was to pull backwards. And the tail of the rope was ran through the end of the knot, so if that needed to be pulled, it would have tightened up.

I am one who puts the quick release snaps on cross ties on the opposite end of the horse, because I don't want to be in the middle of a horse rearing up trying to undo the cross tie. The easier it is for me to release a horse in a dangerous situation without getting in the middle of it, the happier I am.

Just seeing that knot just really bothered me. Maybe I am too paranoid, but it just seems like a huge accident waiting to happen. You never know when a horse will be a horse, and get into trouble....

Amanda

 

[hobbyhorse23]

No, no, I think you're right about that. I haven't been happy using the blocker tie rings as Kody immediately pulls his rope free and starts wandering so I just tie to the ring like I would to a post, using a quick release. I do often tuck the end of my rope back through the quick release knot as both Turbo and Kody have figured out that if they pull the end they can release themeselves.

As you said that's a safety risk but it's better than a mischievious horse getting loose in a dangerous area.

I am not fond of using full-size quick release snaps for mini cross ties as they're so heavy my horses object and there's nothing more annoying than that constant head tossing. They're fine for big horses but even there I would never put them on the outside of the tie. To me that's a huge safety risk for the horse if not myself! That leaves the panicked animal loose with two long pieces of rope with heavy metal weights on the end tangled about its legs. What a disaster in the making! I'd rather have to dodge in myself to release him.

Leia

 

[RhineStone]

I am one who puts the quick release snaps on cross ties on the opposite end of the horse, because I don't want to be in the middle of a horse rearing up trying to undo the cross tie. The easier it is for me to release a horse in a dangerous situation without getting in the middle of it, the happier I am.

Just make sure those cross ties are not the bungie kind. When you release those in a panic, the snap will come back and clunk you or the horse in the face!

We just replaced our bungie cross ties with the good old-fashioned cotton rope. I made them myself since we had a friend that taught me how to braid back the rope from the snap. I put one quick release snap near the halter on one side and the other on wall on the other side. That way, I figure if I have to release the horse on one side, they are still tied with a fairly long rope, and the panic will subside. I also can't stand trying to get a horse in those quick release snaps with one hand while I am holding the horse. The bull snaps on the other line are easier to do with one hand.

We don't put to the first time with the horse tied up. We really believe is it not something that should be done by yourself anyways. Always have knowledgable helpers the first time you put to. And STAND is a "gait" that should be taught as much as "walk" and "trot". Spending lots of time on Stand will really make the grooming, harnessing, and putting to process a WHOLE lot more fun and safe. If the horse knows "stand", you don't have to "rely" on that post or trailer to keep it in place.

I do agree with the idea that you should always put the horse to the cart and take them out in the same place every time. Horses are creatures of habit. They get comfort from having the same stall, the same meal, the same routine. You can change it up after the horse gets used to the idea of driving.

As far as putting to tied otherwise, we do that sometimes for putting the Tandem to the cart, especially when we have to make lots of adjustments in tack. We have tie rings in the aisle in the barn strategically placed for two minis in a row. We leave the halters around their necks and turn them parallel to the wall, and then drop the halters when ready and drive out the barn door. Again, fairly well-broke horses and experienced drivers. We also put them to in the middle of the arena, so they also can be put to untied.

Myrna

 

[hobbyhorse23]

I do agree with the idea that you should always put the horse to the cart and take them out in the same place every time. Horses are creatures of habit. They get comfort from having the same stall, the same meal, the same routine. You can change it up after the horse gets used to the idea of driving.

It's funny how different people do different things but for the same reason.

A little story: When I got out of college I was used to sleeping on an uncomfortable, thin mattress and my bed at home felt like heaven. I got used to sleeping there every night. I was startled, however, the next time I tried to take a nap on the couch and found I could no longer get comfortable and drop off. I thought "What the heck??" I realized I'd gotten too used to one environment meaning "sleep" and had lost the flexibility to sleep except in that context. I forced myself to bed down on the couch for a few nights in a row and retrained my body that the cue to sleep was me saying "Sleep" and not where I laid down. Now I have no problem camping in my car, sleeping in European hostel dorm beds with lots of noise, whatever. I very much like this state of affairs!

I apply the same sort of thing to my horses. I long ago noticed that my friends' horses which were used to being fed at the exact same time every day freaked out and showed signs of extreme stress and even colic if their meal was late. My horses were used to the feed times varying within a set range and waited patiently for us to come out, only getting excited when we showed up. It seemed to me that this was a better state of affairs, that my horse have faith that the food would come and not get upset that it was a little late.

When I do driving training (or for that matter any sort of training) I do the same thing. The routine is almost always the same, the building blocks and expectations EXACTLY the same, but I ask them to do this stuff anywhere and everywhere right from the start. Whenever there's an opportunity and I feel they are set up to succeed, I'll run them through their behaviour routines and build on it. They learn to be flexible and to look to ME as their station, their safe place, rather than a particular physical location. This is especially beneficial at shows where our entire routine is messed up as the boys are used to change and roll with the punches fairly cheerfully. The stress and strange environment are just one more new thing, not an entirely new experience that freaks them out because there is nothing familiar.

I know that Clay's stationing method works well for many people and have no problem with that. For me, personally, it's not a good philosophical fit but I very much agree with his basic principles of always starting with something familiar and building on it when the horse is confident. I simply find the idea of horses being creatures of habit something to be cured rather than used!

They need to know they can be confident in something, but to my way of thinking that should be me and not that a certain thing will always happen at a certain place and/or a certain time.

Leia

ETA: That is not to say I don't use environmental cues as of course I do. When the bridle is on grazing is never allowed, when I call them to the barn for dinner they know which gates will be left open and who is expected to go where, they know that a certain place is for grooming and that if I take them up to the arena with no tack on we're probably going to do trick training. I just don't want them to get so set in their ways that doing something differently upsets them.

 

[RhineStone]

I totally agree. I don't like my horses too regimented (i.e. exact same feeding time each day, etc.

), but for green horses, putting to in the same location gives them comfort until they are comfortable with the idea of being put to. Eventually, we change it up.

Here is a little story too about "routine". I was in the middle of a driving session with Alax and for some reason I had decided to put the whip in the whip socket while I had given Alax the "whoa" command. We were not in our usual put to place. It was sheer laziness on my part, as I should have waited for a complete stop before putting my whip "away". As soon as Alax heard the "clink" of the bottom metal whip ferrule on the metal whip socket, he stopped dead, fast enough that I took note of it, and it actually "unbalanced" my body in the cart, as I was leaned forward just a little towards the whip socket. It occurred to me there that Alax associates the whip clink with being done, and that if he stands still, I get out of the cart, which means his work is over! I would have never put two and two together that the whip clink meant "stand" for him.

Quite the "Pavlov's dog Conditioned Response" at work!

Nope, I too can't stand a horse that can't handle a change in routine....eventually. They need to mind me, no matter what I throw at them. That is where trust comes in, and a lot of trust comes in comfort, and sometimes comfort has to start with routine. It's such a circle!

Myrna

 

[sdust]

Please help me understand.... I could not find the comment about tying a horse to the trailer while hitching so I am unsure if this is wrong and if so why. I trained my mini to drive with no one around to help. So I had no choice but to tie him up (always with a quick release knot) while putting him to the cart. I have been driving Trey for 2 years now and he has a sound mind and is a wonderful driving horse! I am involved in a driving club and go to events and have always tied Trey to the trailer to groom and hitch.... am I doing something wrong? The last thing I want is to create a problem for myself or others. Please advise. Debbie

 

[Mominis]

heehee, Leia

 

[Margo_C-T]

For Debbie(sdust)--

I have been driving(exclusively training my own)since '86, so I think I can speak to this...

What is against ADS 'rules', and will get you asked to leave a driving event,is to EVER remove the bridle from a horse that is hitched to a vehicle.Even if you choose to have a halter on under or over the bridle when going for for a 'casual' drive, you should make it your routine to put the bridle ON before actually hitching, and not remove it until AFTER the horse is fully unhitched from the vehicle.

This requirement is all about safety!

I also work always by myself. I have ALWAYS tied my horses to hitch and unhitch. If I couldn't do this, I would never have been able to drive! I follow the above-described routine, but I DO tie my horse, either to a stall wall, or to the side of the trailer if away at an event. So...don't worry about the fact that you need to tie to hitch. Just do it according to safety standards, and all should be well!

Margo

 

[squeaky]

It might have not been on the Pet Peeves topic, though I thought I remembered reading it there. Sorry for the misinformation if it's not on that topic.

I am sure that if it has worked for you in the past, and if it is working now, don't change what you are doing. I don't agree with tying a horse to hitch, as most of the horses I have worked with would have been seriously injured had I done this, even though "Whoa" is a "gait" they learn (thanks for whomever said that). I just think of the worst possible situation, and like for my horse to be able to move a little without restrictions. While there have been times I probably could have benefited from having a horse tied, I just think I would still have preferred them to be loose. I do everything myself as well, and have found ways of keeping the horse still.

I guess I should have a different title for this topic, as it's not so much the hitching while tied that bothered me, it was that the way the rope was tied was not quick release, and if the horse decided to spook, there was no way for the handler to release the knot quickly.

Amanda

 

[RhineStone]

I don't agree with tying a horse to hitch, as most of the horses I have worked with would have been seriously injured had I done this, even though "Whoa" is a "gait" they learn (thanks for whomever said that). I just think of the worst possible situation, and like for my horse to be able to move a little without restrictions. While there have been times I probably could have benefited from having a horse tied, I just think I would still have preferred them to be loose. I do everything myself as well, and have found ways of keeping the horse still.

And to clarify this, I think Amanda is talking about the first time the horse is put to, not necessarily every time you put to. I agree, I'm not sure I would really care for the horse being tied up while put to THE FIRST TIME, as yes, if something goes wrong, they need room to move. Having a hitched horse move forward is better than having them try to move sideways because they can't move forward. I can see them blowing up and destroying the equipment. But I'm sure there are people out there that it works fine for. Actually, we have had very few horses where the putting to process is even an issue, because we have done so much ground work before that. Most of the time, they just walk right off.....after I said so (that is the MOST important part!

)

Myrna

 

[sdust]

Thanks so much for the information.... Margo, I never knew of the "rule" but thankfully I do hitch with the bridle on first and bridle off last, not sure why I did it that way but sure glad that is my routine. Maybe it was something I read. Thanks for giving me a heads up about this important piece of info.

Amanda, how do you keep a silly low to the ground mini from putting his head down while grabbing the cart to hitch it up? Debbie

 

[RhineStone]

thankfully I do hitch with the bridle on first and bridle off last, not sure why I did it that way but sure glad that is my routine.

Amanda, how do you keep a silly low to the ground mini from putting his head down while grabbing the cart to hitch it up?

The reason the bridle needs to be on the horse while the horse is put to is #1 - without the blinders on, the horse can all-of-a-sudden see behind themselves and see that "thing" chasing them. Now that is not to say that some horses drive perfectly well (some if not better) in an "open" bridle without blinders, but some horses will freak out, hence the accepted use of blinders #2 - the driver doesn't have the control of the horse without a brilde on. Usually when removing the bridle, most people put the halter around the horse's neck before it makes it over the nose. If the horse goes to move off with the cart still attached and the halter around the neck, the likelihood of stopping that horse is minimal IF it decides to leave. That cart all of a sudden becomes a "weapon" behind that horse. (Incidently, that is also the reason that you shouldn't lead a horse that is put to a cart. That "weapon" can "take you out" if that horse jumps forward. I know of an instance where a lady was knocked to her knees and had ribs broke by being "stabbed" in the gut with the shaft while she tried to lead the horse instead of drive it. Granted, that was a big horse, but I decided a long time ago that if you shouldn't do something with a big horse, you shouldn't do it with a little one either.

That is also a good way to have "big horse" drivers "look down" at mini drivers.)

The reason I write this is that if you understand the reason for the rule, you remember why it is a rule and can remember to follow it better.

How do you keep a mini's head off the ground? You teach it!

Just because we put to without the horse tied doesn't mean that we still don't have the reins in hand or handy! Some people put the reins over their arm or shoulder (not around it), I tend to have the reins threaded under the backstrap and I don't let go of them while I pick up the cart. If the horse moves at all, he gets snatched and told "NO, STAND!" very firmly. Remember, this is already after we have worked on Stand in hand, in the cross ties, etc. By the time we are ready to put to, they better know what Stand means!

Putting their head down is unacceptable. That is the horse making decisions he is not allowed to make. Horses that do that probably need more Showmanship work. I don't hold the horse's head up, the post does not hold the horse's head up, the horse's brain holds the horse's head up. The horse needs to understand that there are consequences to putting its head down. When that is firmly understood, there is no problem with the horse standing properly to be put to.

Myrna