how necessary is the overcheck?

[Charlene]

red's bridle came with an overcheck. the way i understand it, this is adjusted/used so that a horse can't lower its head to graze. this really isn't a problem with red because we are rarely anywhere where he can do that.

he's a lovely little horse to drive, very responsive and willing and i'm wondering if the overcheck is even necessary. thoughts?

 

[MiLo Minis]

It is NOT necessary at all! As a matter of fact it interferes with correct movement and actually hurts the horse as every step he takes jerks on his mouth, shortens his stride and hollows his back. IF you were having trouble with a horse that wants to graze a sidecheck would be the one to use as it prevents a horse from getting his head down and, although no matter how loosely you set it will still affect him, it is not as much in play with his head up. The overcheck is ALWAYS affecting him. The only place they are mandatory is in the breed show ring. They have this idea that the checks will prevent a horse from bucking (NOT!) and are therefore a safety feature. A bucking strap or, better yet, good training would be more effective. The overcheck that ticks the horse off is more likely to create a dangerous situation than prevent one. My feeling is that you should take it off your harness and not bother with it unless forced to use it for show. IF you do want to show and have to use it then do practice occasionally with it at home so that your horse knows it but for regular pleasure drives - DITCH IT!

 

[Charlene]

thanks for the response, that's pretty much what i was thinking all along. the other problem is that red has such a THICK forelock, it's almost impossible, with the overcheck, to present a neat appearance. not that the rabbits along the side of the road care but one of these days, i'd like to take the time to get some pictures of him hitched to his new cart. :aktion033:

i do not ever intend to get into the show ring. Lord knows, neither of my guys is show worthy, nor am i. we just wanna have fun!

 

[disneyhorse]

I don't think an overcheck is as bad as MiLo just stated... but they certainly are not necessary. I always suggest having one on which allows the horse to drop its nose to the breastcollar. Having it any tighter requires some training.

I usually train my horses to carry themselves with the overcheck tight, as I show, but when I go trail driving it goes loose so the horse can drop its head in case it stumbles. Wearing an overcheck is tiring, it can be done for the show ring which is a short class, but for trail driving the horse should be allowed more freedom of movement.

Basically it's used for safety such as not being able to put its head between its knees to buck, not being able to graze, and not being able to drop its head to pull the bridle off on the shaft end (if you are not paying attention) or getting a line or bridle piece caught in the shaft if it swings its head back...

Andrea

 

[MiLo Minis]

I am not rabid about this subject

: and do put a check on when necessary as I do show in the breed ring but I am curious disneyhorse as to why you use one at all when driving outside the ring for fun? All of the things you mentioned can still happen with or without an overcheck, it is just one more piece of leather that can get hung up and will not prevent a horse from bucking if he is going to buck. I look at my 19 year old stallion with his straight back and good muscling on the top still very much in action driving and then I look at the two old Standardbred mares (one is only 18) next door to me here that, after a lifetime of overchecks, are sway backed, weak on the topline and retired and wonder why anyone would choose to subject their horse to an overcheck on a regular basis.

 

[disneyhorse]

Like any piece of equipment, if fitted properly and the horse trained to use it, is perfectly fine to use on a regular basis. Some horses can have it looser, some need it tighter. My modern mare is prone to throwing "fits" occasionally and the overcheck really helps minimize it out on the trails.

Some horses DO like to buck in the cart and the check really does help reduce the damage they can cause. I have seen wrecks CAUSED by checks and wrecks that would have been minimized by checks. The important thing, again, is that they are fitted correctly and the horse is trained to use them. Like any equipment, people will be "for" or "against" and there are lots of opinions. I personally would never ride with those huge western curb bits with so much leverage... but to a horse trained to wear it and a rider experienced to using it, it works for them. I also find Western saddles totally useless and hate sitting in them... english or australian saddles only for me... but lots of people see it perfectly fine to ride in western saddles every day!!!

Andrea

 

[MiLo Minis]

Me again! :bgrin Can you explain how you "properly adjust" an overcheck? I see absolutely no way to adjust one so that it will do what you say it should do and not, at the same time, interfere with the horses movement. My personal feeling is that if a horse "likes" to buck in harness or throw fits occasionally then he is not really meant to be a driving horse and is trying to tell you that.

 

[disneyhorse]

Not every horse is a quiet, cruise-along driving horse. I mostly prefer to drive hot and/or green horses so yes occasionally I come across one that likes to have fits or buck! With time and patience most horses will "get over it." However, I like to have the safety of the check, which restricts some of a horse's silliness. It can be a good safety feature, particularly if you are driving a young hot draft horse that is 2,000 pounds! It's a lot of horse to just let have complete freedom in front of a cart.

A properly adjusted check, in my opinion, is one that is not so tight as it makes the horse fret (too tight and the horse will shake/toss it's head and possibly rear up in frustration) but tight enough that the check rein does not allow the corners of the horses' mouths to drop below the throat of the draft collar or the breastcollar. Most of the horses i have broke begin with no check at all while I ground drive, and then I begin to ground drive with the check rein on so they get used to it. As they get used to it, they lose a hole in the check until it is adjusted where it needs to be.

In a Park horse, the check eventually has to be fitted so the horse carries it's head at the highest possible level but still be able to flex at the poll and tuck its chin inwards. This takes a lot of time and care in training and help to build the horse's muscles to carry itself this way. Some trainers use a dumb jockey to further enhance the head carriage and hollow out the back.

The hollowing of the back creates a different movement than a dropped head and a rounded back. It is pure preference for the style of driving that the horse is performing in. Neither is "better" or "worse" than the other... it is a matter of preference.

Some horses, like my little stallion... are easy going hook-and-go sorts that could care less about the overcheck. I can check my stallion up in the show ring and he's fine... and he's safe and quiet on the trails that I can put it quite loose. My modern mare is much greener and hotter than he is, and has more energy than she knows what to do with and has "fits" because she can't gallop like she wants to in the cart. Once she settles down and we've driven out a few miles she is okay, but the overcheck helps ensure that both her and I are safe and she doesn't get too silly.

Driving is a discipline with lots of different tools and training techniques, and it's important to understand what they are so you can use or not use them properly.

In the CDEs you cannot have a check, and if the horses are properly trained to go without, it is a beautiful thing. In the Shetland Fine Harness the horses must be checked up ridiculously high to get the above-level action that they get, and when done properly is ALSO a beautiful thing.

I have great respect for both methods done properly.

Andrea

 

[Katiean]

I was explained the overcheck as it applies to Standardbred race horses. It is adjusted so as the horse pulls into it, they hold their balance to trot or pace. They trot or pace into the bit. If they are hitting their mouth on the bit with every step the overcheck is too loose.

:

 

[MInx]

Ask Fizz, (Jane) LOSE the check

I personally won't use one but then I don't show :bgrin Even in open shows (4-H) I don't use one. ALso I respect it's a matter of personal choice..

Maxine

 

[Charlene]

i guess what it boils down to is that i am inexperienced and very new to driving. i could probably saddle and ride any big horse you can throw at me but i'm discovering a whole new wonderful world with my two minis.

because of my inexperience, i am thankful that i found red. he is totally forgiving of anything i do, he is (as is rebel) so easy to handle, very affectionate and i'm totally in love. i would never want to do anything to compromise my horses' comfort and the next time i put him in harness, i will try driving w/o the overcheck. he has never shown me any indication whatsoever that he would be inclined to buck. he was trained to voice commands mostly and goes pretty much on a loose rein anywhere.

these little guys are worth ten times their weight in gold.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Oh Charlene just look at my signature!!!

:

The checkrein has no purpose other than to hurt the horse

TRAINING is what prevents a horse form grazing, folks, pure and simple TRAINING.

Never have used a check rein, never will, either, and they just are not used in Europe.

I really cannot see that , if the horses all over Europe do not need checkreins, the ones in America do!!

If your horse does not need it stick it in the bin.

Whilst you are at it, find out if he really needs the stupid "blinders" (very well named) too.

He may well be a much happier little horse without either.

 

[Charlene]

no blinders?! now, that's an interesting concept. i read somewhere that the blinders are there so the horse does not see the wheels of the cart turning and think he is being chased. i have often wondered, it makes sense in a way but then again, i don't know.

i've had spooky saddle horses in the past and i always found that if there was a certain booger around the bend, going past it in both directions with a soothing voice was usually all it took and on subsequent rides, it was ignored. might have been a mailbox, a tractor parked along the fence, just about anything qualifies. i have wondered why this same method would not work with a horse in harness.

 

[disneyhorse]

Yes, Charlene, some horses can be trained to pull a cart perfectly fine without blinders.

Again, goes back to having safer "silly" horses...

Driving is just so much more dangerous than riding, so many of the equipment is there for safety. Certianly blinders and checks don't HURT the horse, but in SOME cases they aren't necessary either.

Andrea

 

[MiLo Minis]

Blinders are intended to keep the horse from seeing anything looming up behind it causing him to bolt - by the time he sees what it is it has gone past him. Although most horses learn to deal with them there is the odd horse that just would much rather see what is coming and just won't tolerate having blinders on. I don't have a preference one way or the other, as long as they are properly adjusted so that they don't bother the horse's eyes, as they are harmless whereas the checkreins do cause harm - even if "properly adjusted" they cause harm in the long run and shorten a horse's working life. I let the individual horse tell me if he can deal with blinders or not and whether he will work in the show ring here or just be a pleasureable horse to drive.

There are lots of very unpleasant things done to horses to make them look fiery and beautiful in the ring and they do indeed look very impressive but the comfort of the horse is much more important to me even though I too prefer a horse with spunk and a touch of attitude. Checks are just not comfortable for a horse.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Blinders can cause a horse to be hurt the horse if it cannot see where it is going- this is my reason for disliking their automatic use- a personal, very bad experience when I was a novice that would have been totally avoided if the horse could have seen behind it.

Does your horse spook at cars??

If the answer is No then why would it spook at the cart??

If the answer is Yes you should be wondering if you should be driving it, basically.

Sorry, I feel passionately about this.

The check rein most certainly can hurt a horse- even if it is fairly loose if the horse trips or stumbles it will come up against a rigid hold that can tear it's mouth to pieces.

Checkreins do not come on any of our driving harnesses in Europe- they just do not exist.

There is a nasty little enclave of drivers of "american" horses that are attempting to introduce them and I shall fight it every inch of the way.

Sorry , Charlene, to use your innocent query as a soap box, but I shout it out whenever ans wherever I get the chance.

 

[Charlene]

i live in farm country. the road i drive my horse on is traveled very little. however, before i got him, he lived in a pasture along a highway where he was exposed to everything from motorcycles to semi trucks. he does not spook at cars. nor does he spook at tractors or combines as big as a building! those, we have plenty of and have met them in both directions more than once. we've met or been passed by our share of cars and pick up trucks and he never misses a beat so i am satisfied that he is next-to-unflappable.

not a problem rabbitsfiz, i find your input quite interesting.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

It sounds like your horse is a very willing and nice little guy however being that you are green driving I am not sure I would be taking blinders off, taking all the checks off ect. Sure it works for some horses- and like everything doesnt work for others.

Right now I would do what he is used to as you are learning with him

 

[stormy]

Any device the horse was not born with affects its way of going naturally and therefore can shorten its working life span. Do you think a saddle is comfortable and does not effect the way a horse moves? Do you think pulling a cart is a "natural" thing for a horse to do. A bit can be a cruel device or a carefully applied aid, so can a spur, leg, seat, hand, etc. A properly adjusted check rein is no more "painful" to a horse than riding on contact. I have seen way too many happy, ears up, alert and bright driving horses wearing a check rein to believe it is painful. Any device, including a halter and lead, can be painful if used incorrectly. Do not change what your horse is used to and trained with until you have done some serious research, you may well put both you and your horse in danger.

 

[MiLo Minis]

No I don't think either riding or driving is natural to a horse but I do think that if we are going to ask them to do such an unnatural activity then we owe it to them to make it as comfortable and happy an experience as it can be. That is why it is important to learn to use your hands as gently as possible and to make sure that all your equipment fits as comfortably as possible. For it to be easy for a horse to pull a cart they NEED to be able to get their head down and use their backs and back legs to push with. When they lower their heads you can follow the bit with your hands. With a check on they meet with instant and painful punishment - with an overcheck on their sensitive gums and with a sidecheck the corners of the mouth. They quickly learn to hollow their back and keep their head up which means their mouth doesn't hurt but their backs????? They can't get their back legs under them at all with a check on which, although it helps give them higher action, means that they are now not able to use their powerful back end and will never be able to carry themselves properly and will break down earlier in life. Checks are not such a bad thing when it is only for a few minutes in a breed show ring but when it is used for hour long rides through the country it is pure punishment - the horse can never relax. And most Mini people I see using an overcheck use it on the driving bit rather than a separate check bit which means that the horse is being pulled from 2 different directions with every rein action. Confusing and annoying? I would say yes. Horses that are on edge will prick their ears up too!