I am extremely upset.......

[LisaF.]

This is a long story...but, I will try to make it as short as possible.

This is concerning the rumer I thought may have been going around about me a few months ago.

Would you be upset if this happened to you?...Or am I wrong in feeling the way I do?

How would you handle this?

1) I had a mare up for sale when we decided to reduce our numbers and make some changes in our breeding program. I received an e-mail from a lady that was going to pay me my asking price of 2500.00..but, she was rude and I just was not sure of how this mare would be treated. This lady told me she knew the previous owner/breeder of this mare. So, I contacted this lady..( the one I bought this mare as a 2 year old). She said she had met her, but did not really know her.

2) I received a e-mail a few days later from the lady I bought her from asking me what I would sell the mare to her for. Well, anyone that knows me knows I really care where my horses go. So, I told her I would sell her this mare that she always loved back to her for 2150.00 ...the lady said I told her 2100..( I honestly can't remember if we had a contract because I trusted her so much..and even if I did my computer crashed and I lost everything)...so, I thought no big deal...$50.00 so I let it go.

3) She asked me if she could make payments. I said that was fine, but I did need her paid off as soon as she could and picked up as soon as possible after paid in full. Well, this took alot longer than I thought it would ...I NEVER even asked for board fee or complained during this time.

4) I was going through my medical problems during this time and was having HORRIBLE Migraines.. I have what they call Cluster and ( another name I can't think of it right now) ..anyway...with my migraines they can last for days and I get numbness on the left side of my body. I am sure anyone that has migraines knows how bad these things can be. The doctors tried Imitrix(sp)..well, I am allergic to it and can't take it. Ok...back on the subject.

5) I did take alot longer than I planned to get her paperwork to her...which I did apologize and explain to her why. Ok...everything was still fine at this point.

6) I was looking through some links one day ...I had sold this mare to the lady that bred and raised her until she was a two year old. I had this mare for 3 years. This lady lived in Ohio.....she was listed for sale on a website from Pennsylvania (sp) in a very SHORT time.

7) I took a $ 400.00 loss on this mare ...I paid $2000.00 for her open....I sold her back to the original owner for $2100.00 ultrasounded in foal to my black and white HOMOZYGOUS stallion.

8) I have to admit I was MAD...I thought she had bought her back just to resale her for more money.

9) I e-mailed her very upset asking what was going on...she told me this mare was MEAN and was mean to horses and PEOPLE ........I was ...and I AM STILL in shock over this. This mare is NOT mean...especially to people.......she said that she even BITES. I NEVER seen her even try to bite a horse or a person. Well, needless to say this really made me angry. This is NOT the mare that left my farm.

10) Then the story goes ...well...I didn't want to tell you ...but, I had to borrow money from a friend so we are co-owning her. Well...guess what....I did not sell her for $400.00 less....bred to my homozygous stallion to be co-owned.

11) This mare that she says is MEAN to people and horses and BITES...ETC.....Is listed for sale.......as show quality and ready for the showring. Do people take MEAN biting horses into show rings?

12) She says I am angry over the money...well, I will be honest if I had known she was going to be co-owned I would not have taken the 400.00 loss....I would have waited for a buyer that would have gave her a good home for my asking price.

13) What I am most angry about is I feel like I was mislead....( I don't like dishonesty).

14) She keeps telling me she couldn't help it she had to borrow the money....I could care less if she was poor as a rock...that is NOT what bothers me. It is the fact I feel like I was mislead to so I would sell this mare for alot lower in price so she could resell her for more money.

15) I did get angry and let her know it....of course, she forwards my e-mail to at least one of her friends and I don't know who else...( I wonder if she forwarded what she wrote to me?...I doubt it)

16) Back to the Migraine thing...she called one day about the paperwork....( when we normally talked we talked for a long time on the phone)....I told her I was having a horrible migraine and had to get off the phone. She told her friend I hung up on her.....a complete LIE.

17) I wouldn't even answer the phone during a migraine if I didn't think it would be an emergency from one of my kids or husband. ( I am strange that way...I worry to much).

18) After several rude e-mails to me I had enough and told both farms to never e-mail me again.

19) Last week before I left on vacation .... I decided to try and put the past behind and let her know that if this mare is bred and starts to foal...( she was ultrasounded in foal...but, the owner had told me she didn't think she was bred)....that the mare leaks her milk...I wanted to make sure the foal got the colostrum ( sp) ...it needed and I felt if I had forgot to tell her that before that it could make it hard on the foal. I also asked if she did foal would she please send me pictures of the foal because I like to keep pictures of my stallions foals. ( I did not say anything about the past).

20) I received an e-mail on the way down on vacation at a motel...( now I am in a condo and can't receive or send e-mails...just my luck)...anyway the e-mail was polite....but, her friend told me that I had asked them not to e-mail me ...so the lady WON'T ...but, perhaps if I apologized to this lady she might.

21) I can't e-mail her friend back...I hope she reads this....but, I am thinking....you have GOT TO BE KIDDING ME?.....I AM THE ONE THAT SHOULD APOLOGIZE( sp)....I don't think I am the one that should.

22) I did apologize to her a long time ago for taking so long to get the paperwork to her...this was while I was going through all my medical testing and even even ended up in the hospital.

23) I have been told this mare is in Ohio..to the person I sold her too...but, she is listed for sale in PN.

24) Is it too much to ask for a picture of the foal?

Let me know what you honestly think and what you would do if you were in my shoes.

 

[Ashley]

WEll i have never sold many I have origanally bought, but I have never sold them for more or even the same amount I bought them for.

IT is very possible for a horse to turn mean to horses it is not used to and to humans as well.

Her friend could just be listing her forsale for her.

What ever the reasons, the horse is hers again and hers to do what she wants with.

 

[mountain_waif]

Just let it go. It is done. It will only hurt you to keep going over it.

You wanted to sell the mare and you did your best to get her to a home that you thought was best for her. You made a deal. It is done. You are making this your problem....it is not. This lady has the problems. Just let it go.

 

[Minimor]

It always pays to hold out for a price you are happy with, no matter what the new owner may do with the horse. It's nice to give a "deal" to a friend, or to what seems to be an absolutely perfect home, or to someone's child that desperately wants a horse and hasn't got much money, but sometimes those stories are nothing more than stories, and the buyer is simply using any means possible to get the lowest price so that he/she can make the biggest profit on resale. Let the horse go for a price you are happy with, and will be happy with even if the new owner turns around and resells for more money.

As I said on another thread, I am "nobody" in the Mini world, and I know that I won't get the highest prices for any horses I sell. I have some nice horses, but no one really knows that because I haven't been out there showing and promoting. Someone else that is big name could buy a horse here & then turn around and sell for a higher price--I know that, and when I price a horse all I can do is ask the best price I can get. If the buyer then resells for more money, well, I can't be upset because I pretty much know that I wouldn't have gotten any more money than I did for the horse.

Really, though, I don't see it that you "lost" $400--you got $100 more than you paid for the mare. Granted, your stud fee should be worth more than $100, and of course there's 3 years worth of feed and routine vet/farrier care you put into the mare. But, how often do people get back what they truly have in a horse if you start adding up the feed, vaccines, dewormer, etc.? Breedings are often "thrown in" on a sale just to make the mare more attractive to purchasers. Have you had foals from this mare in the 3 years you have owned her? If so, then they figure into the equation--if you bought for $2000, sold for $2100, you are "out" your stud fee but are to the good because there's a foal or two that you got from the mare.... Even if there are no foals, you didn't really lose that $400, though you did get $400 less than you were asking.

I understand you like to have info on foals by your stallion but obviously trying to communicate with this person is not worth the effort. You did tell her not to e-mail you again; I would write this foal off as an unknown, and just forget about trying to keep track of this one.

Een if the mare wasn't mean at your place, perhaps she has taken a dislike to the new owner(s) and did bite one of them. While I don't consider 1 bite makes a horse "mean" some people would write off a horse as being mean if it took one bite at someone--even if the person actually provoked the horse into biting.

Ignore this woman; put the whole thing out of your mind & move on!

 

[LisaF.]

Thanks for your honest oppinion's.... but what I am most upset about is....that the horse I sold to one person ....is now co-owned....I did not fill out the AMHR for a co-ownership. I filled the AMHR paperwork in one persons name...NOT two.

Both people have websites....but, it is advertised as ready to go in the show ring in a different state than I thought the mare was in...but, I get e-mails...( AFTER I asked what was going on....telling me how mean she is).

I also don't like her telling someone a lie that I hung up on her...( the way I look at it one lie...then there must be more)....I told her I was in bed with a horrible migraine and couldn't talk....that is not hanging up on someone.

I understand sometimes you have to resell not long after buying a horse...it is all the other things going on with this.

 

[solupe]

How about buying her back again........

 

[yankee_minis]

If it were me I would be terribly upset at being misled. I think that's a big problem for you too. The whole thing is distasteful.

There's not much you can do now that she owns your mare.

You can be angry and hurt and feel lied to and cheated. But the bottom line is that you can't control other people. And you have to let that go.

Sorry. I know that's easier said than done.

 

[Sunny]

Well, sold is sold. You have no control over what the new owner of a horse does with it. If it's offered for sale and you feel so strongly about it, buy it back. If you can't, then too bad. I understand your feelings about being mislead and all that, but you have to just let it go. The mare isn't yours anymore, bottom line.

 

[lil hoofbeats]

we had an experience like this one. We traded a mare for another one. We saw a horse for sale on the internet, and ask her if she would trade, and she said if she did not sell her mare, she would trade me for my horse.

Well in a couple of weeks, she did trade me for mine. i called her a month after the trade, and she was very satisfied with her horse that she got from our farm.

About 8 months later , she saw on our website that we had a price on the mare that we got from her , and ask me about it. I told her that we really did not want to sell her, but if anyone paid that price that we would sell her.

Well, someone did! that mare was sold to England, to a nice farm there. The original owner found out, and was MAD! She said she hoped she did not end up on someones dinner plate, and that i was a terrible person for selling that horse.

I think what she was REALLY mad about was...... I got more money than she did. I bet that same person that bought that mare from me, could have bought that mare from her, when she was trying to sell her!

Bottom Line... If you want to keep control on a horse, dont sell it! Once you sell it you do not have control on it. It becomes someone elses property. If you have a horse that you want to keep control of, and you need to find it a home, Give it to someone, with stipulations in writing, and a notorized contract. WE did this on a colt that we"gave" away. If they can no longer take care of it, they must return it.

 

[mountain_waif]

I also understand the coownership as being a problem if the transfer was altered after the sale...i.e. adding a co-buyer without your knowledge. But they may have done two transfers....the result would be the co-ownership.

I hate selling and the problems that seem to occasionally pop up afterwards. I hope you are able to let this go and concentrate on something that is going well....think happy thoughts, it is much healthier for you.

 

[Amy]

Sorry but SOLD is SOLD-- you may have sold the mare to one person-- but there is nothing to stop that person from co-owning the horse . You have to realize, once they are sold you have no "rights" to them any longer. While it might be nice to have a picture of the foal there is no obligation on the part of the new owner to send you one-- especially since you told her to not email you again. I think there is "some" fault on both sides here -- so you should just let it go-- or it will eat away at you.

Perhaps the co-owner lives at PA -- it doesn't really matter why it is being sold from PA -- you no longer own the horse-- bottom line.

 

[LisaF.]

Well, as everyone knows I am not very good at explaining myself.

I would not have sold her for that price for co-ownership...so, yes that would have made a difference in her price. So, in that way it does upset me because I felt misled about the sale.

I have sold mares to Little King Farm....Now, I knew when I sold them...that if they resell the mares I could guarentee you they would get alot more for the same horses. That does NOT bother me.

I feel like I should have been told UPFRONT this mare would be co-owned.

I also checked after she received the mare and everything was fine and she was happy she was home.

It was after I found out about the co-ownership that the mare all of a sudden is MEAN.

 

[Ashley]

Why would the price of the horse change if it ws co-owned?

To me that is shady, the horses value doesnt change if you have one owner or two. All my except my stallion and my geldings are in another persons name as well. I am sole owner of it, however I want them to beable to be sold with out problems, should I die or get seriously injured and need to move them.

I do not at all agree at chargeing more for a horse if it is gonna be co-owned.

 

[Dandy]

In my opinion once the horse is sold it is sold. What they decide to do with it is their business. I know sometimes "feelings" get caught up in these transactions. I also don't see what difference being co-owned would make with the price of the horse.

 

[Bluerocket]

Sorry you feel wronged and deceived.

I know that it is always best to find the right home - or at least a good home for your equine family.

However - once they are sold they are sold.

I do think that the horse is still yours until fully paid for -- and that the buyer can't sell the horse until they have the papers in hand. Co-ownership of a horse implies that both people are the buyers - as acknowledged by the seller.

At this point in time it is water under the dam however -- if the horse is paid for.

This is something that could be avoided in the wording of the contract -see a lawyer for appropriate wording.

I know you are offended -- but life is too short to sweat the small stuff - and this is small stuff compared to other things that could be happening to you and yours.

I would say - get over it -- I mean it kindly - but its time to drop it.

Just my opinion.

JJay

 

[sparkle]

I'm sorry that you are feeling badly about it. I CAN see why you are, but I think at this point, you're stressing yourself out over something you can't control.

:

When I buy a horse, I am completely up front with what my plans are for him/her. Yes, life can change, but even IF I had to sell a horse that I couldn't keep any more, I would probably try to get first refusal from the person/farm I bought from. I say that because I would be pleased if someone did that for ME!

Granted not everyone is honest in their purchasing/selling, but this situation does come down to you making the decision to sell her to this person and you agreed to the lesser price. I realize that you didn't know the rest of the story until after the fact and that your decision would've been different if you were "in the know", but unfortunately the transaction is complete.

However...YES, she probably should've come forward with her change in plans. Also, if I discovered an issue w/ her (biting), I would be contacting you to find out what happened...is this normal...etc. There could've been the "I really can't afford her on my own, I'd like to co-own her w/ someone else" OR "this mare is mean, she is not what you described her as, can we cancel the deal and I'll give the mare back and you give the money back".

I could be wrong here, but I think that you aren't so mad about the price change w/ co-ownership, but more so that you were concerned about the home she was going to (as you should be) and the original breeder was trusted and you didn't get to decide if the other co-owned home is suitable for your mare. ??? Is that right??

: That IS hard, but you sold her to a home that you trusted. It's not your fault that she wasn't as trustworthy as you believed her to be.

As for the picture...of course you would love to have one, but I think that the soured relationship between this triangle is going to prevent you from getting one. I think that you'll just have to forget about the picture, wash your hands of this and hope for the best for both mare and foal.

:

Just my opinion

:

 

[Buckskin gal]

I can understand why you would be upset if the buyer didn't tell you the horse was going to be co-owned with her...you should be intitled to know who you are selling to. I f she bought the horse on her own to start with and transferred her into her name only, I would see no problem but if she took your transfer and added another owner to it I would think this is deceiving you. When I make out a transfer I intend that horse to be owned by the person I transfer it to and not to anyone else. Don't know what the registeries say about this but I would think they would object to someone being added that the horse was not truly sold to. I would check with the registry and find out just how this transfer was handled and if it was changed from how you gave it to the buyer. Yes what is done is done but there are those who do things that aren't always on the up and up. I also understand how you feel you were giving this buyer a discount just because she was previous owner and thought she would be well appreciated....not only that but if there were actually two buyers she should not have had to make payments. Yes, what is done is done but I can understand your frustration. Bottom line...if the horse was to be intended for co ownership from the start the buyer should have told you, so you could have done the transfer accordingly. If she sent the paperwork in with her name only on it and then later decided on a co ownership and done the paper work for it then she had that right. Can you find out which way it was...you may feel better knowing for sure. Mary

Well, as everyone knows I am not very good at explaining myself.

I would not have sold her for that price for co-ownership...so, yes that would have made a difference in her price. So, in that way it does upset me because I felt misled about the sale.

IIt was after I found out about the co-ownership that the mare all of a sudden is MEAN.

 

[HGFarm]

Oh Lisa, sorry you are upset. Hopefully she is in good hands and doing well. I did sell a mare from here that did NOT do well at her new home with the other horses- apparently was quite an alpha mare, though she was at the bottom of the order here. Go figure?? She seems to do better in a smaller herd and is ok at her new home with the partner (co owned with the other owner)

I understand your points, but would just let it drop. It's not worth another migraine (I get them too but not THAT bad!!) fretting over it. Maybe she will go to a new home that will just love her to death and show her. I hope it all works out.

 

[Colagirl]

I too understand completely why you are upset. All you can do now tho is hope that she gets a loving new home where she DOESNT feel the need to bite the owners!! I never trust a person who has a problem with a horse and says its the horses fault!! They are bad news in my experience!!!

 

[Minimor]

I suppose you could make trouble if you completed the transfer in full & the buyer altered it to add an extra name; in my job that's a big no-no (adding a second transferee to a Transfer of Land) but I'm not sure if the laws are quite the same regarding AMHR/AMHA transfers. But, even if you can make trouble over this, it would be a big hoopla for nothing, really, because they could simply reissue the papers the way you meant them to be, then pay for a second transfer into both names--and it's possible that's the way they did it anyway. I don't think causing a stir over this issue will change anything.

I know you don't like her spreading the word--or her version of it!--of how you hung up on her. In the big picture of things, though, this is a pretty minor lie. How many people really care if you did or didn't hang up on this person? Most probably let it go in one ear & right on out the other. I betcha there are even some that would be thinking 'oh, good for Lisa hanging up on you, I'd have done the same!' :lol:

I do see why you're upset about the co-ownership thing, especially if the co-owner is someone you didn't want to have the mare. Is this the person that inquired & was willing to pay your price, but she sounded grouchy & you suspected it wasn't a great home? See, I have a nasty suspicious mind, so as soon as I read the part about this gal saying she knew the previous owner of the mare--then you ask the previous owner for a reference on this person....and previous owner doesn't answer that but rather contacts you for the mare's price to her...my first thought was that the other gal had been in touch with her & they hatched the plan to buy the mare as cheaply as possible. It happens--someone once tried to get me to buy a horse this way for them because the seller didn't want to sell the mare to anyone but me. For me it was friends on each side of the deal & I didn't want to play ball on that one. Seller still has the horse 3 years later!