I Got A Big Time Biter?? How Do I Make Him Stop??

[kaykay]

leanna i will be honest and say i have also done it on occassion

looney do you have other miniatures?? If you do then for now i would just say do not let the kids play with this one particular horse. Hes definately feeling dominant over smaller kids because well they are smaller. Unless those kids are really horse savvy i would just let them pet the other horses. at 7 months hes starting to feel the hormones kick in. If you dont need him as a stallion then definately geld him. when we have kids here we let them pet the mature mares not stallions. in fact when kids visit here all stallions are put up in stalls. Now my stallions are very well mannered and none of them bite. But for the safety of the kids and my own peace of mind I just dont chance it. This is especially true during breeding season.

I also strongly agree that horses that are kept seperate and have no horse buddies to play with imo are the worst biters.

I watch tamale the sr stallion play with black and jet. they are so mouthy with each other its not even funny. but they NEVER do it to me or any other human.

 

[New2Minis]

I have read the other posts and some things work for some and not for others. It is hard to make a suggestion not knowing you and your horse. If you are a horse person you can look into thier eye and view thier body language and tell if it is a mean behavior, spoiled behavior or if he is testing you. I do have exp. in this department with both minis and HUGE halter horses and warmbloods. I would start off by acting like alfa mare. Others viewing you may think you are crazy but for me it has work in all but 1 case. When you know he is about to start turn your back side to him and kick out squeeling. You have to think like a horse. Beat him to the punch and set the status of the herd. I also do this periodically thru the year with all my horse just to kep them in check. Anyone who knows me knows my horse are well behaved and RESPECT me. It is not from beating or hitting them but them understanding me and my body language. Animals are creature of habit and you need to break his habit.

On the other hand I have had one stallion that was horrible for biting and rearing, Let me tell you I tried EVERYTHING, 1st he was gelded, then it was CONSISTANCY, I think it was a combination of things but what finally worked was a hot potato. I put a raw potato in the microwave and when he went to bite I switched my hand or body part for the potato. Well did he get a suprise!! DO NOT have the potato too hot where it will burn his mouth.

CONSISTANCY is very important, I personally would geld him immediatly. You do not want to pass on that kind of behavior and it is very dangerous.

Good luck!!

Alison

Thanks Alison,

I do not plan on gelding him because I think his behavior is from being allowed to get away with it for the 7 months the previous owner had him because, he is NOT vicious and DOES NOT ever pin his ears. He has been able to get away with it so far so why not, it is FUN to him but painful to others, LOL..................I am going to try the squeeling mare trick (when no one else is around, lol) !!!

 

[Suzie]

I would advise one other thing. We have an older mare that takes nothing off of nobody. Every new horse here spends 30 days with this mare -dubbed the witch by us. She gives them a 30 day refresher course on how to act! She never lets them get by with anything and by the time 30 days is up, they are thrilled to be good and get "out of that pasture!" If they even look like they are going to get in her space, kick or bite, she lights into them.

I had a filly that would kick every horse on the place and thought she was a big deal. One day she kicked me. Her bad luck. 30 days with the "witch". First day, she started to kick the "witch" and the witch said, "darling let me show you how that is done!!!". Well, let me tell you, that filly never takes her hooves off the ground to anybody now, human or horse. That goes for any bad behavior, biting, whatever. She is the ultimate ALPHA mare! You might try putting this colt in with a mare like that if you have one and she will teach him some manners.

Also, your body language is part of the deal. My horses never act up with me because I never let them get by with anything. However, they run all over my husband, because he lets them get by now and then. Horses read body language to the hilt and this colt has read that humans are puch overs and you will spend quite some time making him believe different. Consistency is the key. I agree with rewarding good behavior with attention.

 

[looney2n]

I have been around big horses all my life but I'm finding out from this thread that I'm not all that stallion savvy. I usually can read horses very well and know what thier next move may(may not) be. One thing I was wondering though. I have disciplined my colt for nipping but what about when he pins his ears? I usually give him a sharp 'Quit!' and walk away from him. But now, after reading all the advice here it just occurred to me that I'm probably reinforcing that behavior by doing that. Am I? I have 2 others minis, a gelding and a mare. The mare usually puts the colt in his place when he gets to playing too rough. He doesnt have any other foals to play with so when my grandkids come, he gets so cute and curious and wants all the attention. But like I said, he scares me the way he acts by the kids. I'd hate to have to pen him when they come because it's the 'baby' they want to see but if it means keeping the kids safe, I will do it.

I've only had my minis for a little over a year. I got this colt so that I could train him from very young and make him 'bomb proof' so I can use him in nursing homes. He is actually doing very well with me but I need him to be TOTALLY respectful and behave well. It sounds like I may have to geld him in order to do that?

 

[kaykay]

looney this is just my opinion but yes if you want a horse to take to nursing homes and be good with kids then i would geld him as soon as possible. The quicker the better before the real stallion traits start to kick in. Spring of the first year is when they can really get going due to hormones so i like to geld before then.

 

[minijoyj]

I had a baby that wanted to bite all the time, I finally got tired of him not minding me & I would take his little face in my hand & bite him on the nose, hard. It didn't take long & he did not bite anymore. I did not die from it either. LOL

My stallion that I have now wanted to bite me. One day I got after him by throwing my hands up at him & hollering at him, well he turned around & ran right into a post, It scared me when he did it, but guess what he has not bitten since then. I was afraid that he knocked his teeth out, but they were o.k.

Some people say if you take your fingers & twist them just behind his front leg, supposed to be like Mom would be doing to them. Good LUck

 

[Jill]

I'm pretty sure I know the horse Alison / BWMinis is referring to. Oh man, he was something else at one point!!!

 

[New2Minis]

I have noticed that when he is busy eating I can go in his stall or paddock with him and love him all over and does not attempt to bite because he is busy eating...................

 

[Firefall]

I have been following this thread, New2minis, my stallion is exactly like yours is! LOL A sweet boy at feeding time, but if I just go into his paddock to mess with him...............woe baby, here come the the bites.

I've gotten fed up with him and realized I haven't been consistent which I know my boy needs. He just turned 3 and had his first breeding season this spring/summer. Normally he's with the mares 24/7 but since I have coming 2 yr olds he has been in an adjoining paddock till breading season again. I hadn't realize how bad he gotten till I went in their without food one day and he decided I was there for "his" enjoyment. I was mortified when he reared up and put his front legs on my shoulders from behind!!! I couldn't believe it, I got sooooo mad and of course I didn't have my little whip with me either. So back to the lessons. He's always facing me with that mouth and head, grrrr...............so I'm constantly turning his head forward so I can scratch or make him stand still while I stand beside or walk around him. I keep a small hand whip and whack his chest if he bites and he's finally realizing thats a no no. And NO more rearing up and using me as a resting post either, that ended quickly. I am just glad there was no one around to see that, it was so embrassing, but it also made me aware that I really needed to get back to working with him and show him I was boss, not him.

Anyway, good luck!

 

[New2Minis]

Suzie.....I think I need to borrow your mare!!! LOL.......I have 2 Mares like that but they are "big" horses and I am afraid they will kill him, lol......................

:

:

 

[Jean_B]

Thanks Alison,

I do not plan on gelding him because I think his behavior is from being allowed to get away with it for the 7 months the previous owner had him because, he is NOT vicious and DOES NOT ever pin his ears. He has been able to get away with it so far so why not, it is FUN to him but painful to others, LOL..................I am going to try the squeeling mare trick (when no one else is around, lol) !!!

OK -- Now I'm starting to get irritated. You have been given lots of advice from LOTS of knowledgeable people that the most important thing is to not allow this behavior with CONSISTENCY....and here you go saying you'll do this "when no one else is around." I'm sorry, but if you come on here asking for advice and the advice every single time uses the key word "consistency" and you blow them off, I wonder how serious you are about fixing the problem.

This animal is dangerous. The behavior needs to be fixed -- maybe not with what I suggested. Heck, I know there are alot of people out there with well-behaved colts, (mine included and they are not afraid of me by any stretch of the imagination) who use many different kinds of methods - but for pete's sake, if you are going to ask for advice, please LISTEN. A biting horse is NOT a joke.

And I'll say one more thing and then I am DONE with this topic. A stallion has one purpose and one purpose only (other than the show ring of course) and that is to procreate. That's all that's in that little pea brain of his. I don't care how GENTLE that stallion is. I never never never completely trust a stallion. I never take my attention off of him when anywhere near him. He is NOT a pet. Period. If you want a pet, you are best to geld him. Yes, many many stallions make outstanding show and driving horses but that is because KNOWLEDGEABLE people CONSISTENTLY train them.

Yeah, you could put him in with an Alpha witch mare to teach him some manners, but unless you are willing to consistently present yourself as the alpha when around him, you are TOAST.

 

[Relic]

:aktion033: to the above post.

 

[MiLo Minis]

Thanks Alison,

I do not plan on gelding him because I think his behavior is from being allowed to get away with it for the 7 months the previous owner had him because, he is NOT vicious and DOES NOT ever pin his ears. He has been able to get away with it so far so why not, it is FUN to him but painful to others, LOL..................I am going to try the squeeling mare trick (when no one else is around, lol) !!!

OK -- Now I'm starting to get irritated. You have been given lots of advice from LOTS of knowledgeable people that the most important thing is to not allow this behavior with CONSISTENCY....and here you go saying you'll do this "when no one else is around." I'm sorry, but if you come on here asking for advice and the advice every single time uses the key word "consistency" and you blow them off, I wonder how serious you are about fixing the problem.

This animal is dangerous. The behavior needs to be fixed -- maybe not with what I suggested. Heck, I know there are alot of people out there with well-behaved colts, (mine included and they are not afraid of me by any stretch of the imagination) who use many different kinds of methods - but for pete's sake, if you are going to ask for advice, please LISTEN. A biting horse is NOT a joke.

And I'll say one more thing and then I am DONE with this topic. A stallion has one purpose and one purpose only (other than the show ring of course) and that is to procreate. That's all that's in that little pea brain of his. I don't care how GENTLE that stallion is. I never never never completely trust a stallion. I never take my attention off of him when anywhere near him. He is NOT a pet. Period. If you want a pet, you are best to geld him. Yes, many many stallions make outstanding show and driving horses but that is because KNOWLEDGEABLE people CONSISTENTLY train them.

Yeah, you could put him in with an Alpha witch mare to teach him some manners, but unless you are willing to consistently present yourself as the alpha when around him, you are TOAST.

:aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033: Having come from a background of working with many different breeds of horses in many different barns with a proliferation of stallions such as a Warmblood dressage barn and a Standardbred race barn I can say that Jean is bang on. While Miniatures may be smaller versions they are HORSES!!! If you continue to treat all stallions as if they are pets there will come a time when you will be injured at the very least - not a threat but a promise.

 

[New2Minis]

OMG, you guys need to calm down. I know this is not a laughing matter, that is why I asked for advice. I am being VERY consistent with him and I was saying I would use the "squeeling mare trick when no one was around", DID NOT mean I would let him kick my butt when people were around. I take stallions very serious as I have a "big" stallion also but I have raised him from birth and have not had to deal with this bad behavior from him. If I didnt care how he behaved I would not have posted for advice!!!!! I am trying several of your technics mention on here , not to be narrow minded that it is one way or no way because all of you have given good advice. I did not know nobody had a sense of humor.........................

:

:

I do not allow my children to go in the stall/paddock with him until his behavior improves and still I teach them to never turn your back "on any horse for that matter, especially young horses"......................Sorry If you guys thought I was not taking his behavior serious , and that I have a sense of humor............

 

[MiLo Minis]

Milo ( Lori ) I am sorry, I know you are a horse trainer, But:::::

"Quote"

The nails in the hand are a good replacement for "teeth" and as you are carrying them and he essentially runs into them himself and gets an instant punishment for his behaviour they work rather well. :new_shocked:

I agree with rabbitsfizz do not use force, you want your horse to respect you and feel safe around you.

Since you did not raise him, he has already been punished. In my opinon. Scared and needs more time to settle in.

Not the word NO sounds like Whoa,

Use the Shhhhhhhhhhhh sound and clip under the chin will do the trick, never the face or other objects, lets face it when he goes to bite I bet you do not have the crop in hand.

I agree with rabbitsfizz do not need too much force, you want your horse to respect you and feel safe around you.

It will take a few times, but he will relate to the shhhhhhhhhhhhh sound and the clip (open hand) under the chin, is the safest place. Sometimes it is your first reaction that counts.

I normally do not like to react to questions and answers but:::

Good Luck,

:

Yes I do call myself a horse trainer Mary. And I would like to invite you to drop by any time and meet my herd of well behaved well loved horses that run from the back of the field when I appear to crowd around me and beg for pats including the 6 stallions I have here. I too love horses and would never do anything to hurt them emotionally or physically EXCEPT in the case of a DANGEROUS behaviour. I prefer to use methods that allow the horse to teach himself as it sinks in much faster and more deeply that way. I do NOT attack a biter with a nail I simply hold it in my hand and allow him to run into it. That is only one of the methods that I have used and it is an effective one. I do NOT use methods such as this on a baby that is being playful but this woman came on with a spoiled horse that was exhibiting what I consider to be incredibly dangerous behaviour and asked for advice. She was given very good advice from someone I have a great deal of respect for and I came on and backed her up. I would very much like to have seen you gently reprimand and "shhhhh" my 2 year old colt last year. I would have happily bandaged up whatever part he tore off you. :bgrin

 

[New2Minis]

Milo ( Lori ) I am sorry, I know you are a horse trainer, But:::::

"Quote"

The nails in the hand are a good replacement for "teeth" and as you are carrying them and he essentially runs into them himself and gets an instant punishment for his behaviour they work rather well. :new_shocked:

I agree with rabbitsfizz do not use force, you want your horse to respect you and feel safe around you.

Since you did not raise him, he has already been punished. In my opinon. Scared and needs more time to settle in.

Not the word NO sounds like Whoa,

Use the Shhhhhhhhhhhh sound and clip under the chin will do the trick, never the face or other objects, lets face it when he goes to bite I bet you do not have the crop in hand.

I agree with rabbitsfizz do not need too much force, you want your horse to respect you and feel safe around you.

It will take a few times, but he will relate to the shhhhhhhhhhhhh sound and the clip (open hand) under the chin, is the safest place. Sometimes it is your first reaction that counts.

I normally do not like to react to questions and answers but:::

Good Luck,

:

Yes I do call myself a horse trainer Mary. And I would like to invite you to drop by any time and meet my herd of well behaved well loved horses that run from the back of the field when I appear to crowd around me and beg for pats including the 6 stallions I have here. I too love horses and would never do anything to hurt them emotionally or physically EXCEPT in the case of a DANGEROUS behaviour. I prefer to use methods that allow the horse to teach himself as it sinks in much faster and more deeply that way. I do NOT attack a biter with a nail I simply hold it in my hand and allow him to run into it. That is only one of the methods that I have used and it is an effective one. I do NOT use methods such as this on a baby that is being playful but this woman came on with a spoiled horse that was exhibiting what I consider to be incredibly dangerous behaviour and asked for advice. She was given very good advice from someone I have a great deal of respect for and I came on and backed her up. I would very much like to have seen you gently reprimand and "shhhhh" my 2 year old colt last year. I would have happily bandaged up whatever part he tore off you. :bgrin

Ok, Milo (Lori)......In your opinion do you think my little man is being playful, dominent, spoiled or just mean. At the stage he is at now, he is not aggressive and does not pin his ears or come at me so I do not consider him dangerous. I definately know if he is allowed to continue this, then it will become dangerous. I have had horses for 20 years so I know all about young playful horses, young stallions, etc. I have never actually had to deal with a mean one thank goodness. I am new to Mini's and have never bought a horse that had behavior issues, or had to deal with correcting bad habits that have been learned from people allowing the horse to get away with it. That is why I was askin for advice and I do appreciate ALL the suggestions, it is all a learning experience for me and my colt!!!!!!!!!1

 

[MiLo Minis]

Ok, Milo (Lori)......In your opinion do you think my little man is being playful, dominent, spoiled or just mean. At the stage he is at now, he is not aggressive and does not pin his ears or come at me so I do not consider him dangerous. I definately know if he is allowed to continue this, then it will become dangerous. I have had horses for 20 years so I know all about young playful horses, young stallions, etc. I have never actually had to deal with a mean one thank goodness. I am new to Mini's and have never bought a horse that had behavior issues, or had to deal with correcting bad habits that have been learned from people allowing the horse to get away with it. That is why I was askin for advice and I do appreciate ALL the suggestions, it is all a learning experience for me and my colt!!!!!!!!!1

It never starts out as dangerous. He is like all stallions exhibiting normal stallion behaviour that he would never be allowed to get away with in a herd situation. Colts play with each other and test their dominance all the time. You will see them rear up on each other and bite and force the less dominant one to bow. They rarely hurt each other seriously but it can look quite nasty and if it was directed at us it would hurt and could even kill us - YES EVEN A MINI COLT. I am not there to see your colt and be able to deduce exactly the cause of his behaviour but my guess is he has tested his dominance over other humans before you got him and he has been reassured that he is more dominant and he is continuing the behaviour with you and has gotten past the playful stage. I don't think he is being mean or aggressive - yet. But why wait? It will escalate unless it is stopped immediately by whatever method you choose. You have been given some excellent advice in this post and you should put it into action very seriously. I have seen cheeks torn off by stallions. One person I know had her scalp removed by one just shortly before she had her stallion put to death. Stallions are a completely different animal than a mare or gelding and just like Jean says no matter how much you trust them you should never trust them implicitly. They need to be handled completely differently than a mare or gelding as they have a completely different psyche. There are very few horses that are naturally mean or aggressive - most of them have been "trained" by their owners to be that way. Although this is not strictly a Mini phenomenon it is prolific in Minis just because of the number of Mini people that own stallions and are not knowledgeable enough to handle them correctly. But anyone can learn!

 

[LindaB]

It never starts out as dangerous. He is like all stallions exhibiting normal stallion behaviour that he would never be allowed to get away with in a herd situation. Colts play with each other and test their dominance all the time. You will see them rear up on each other and bite and force the less dominant one to bow. They rarely hurt each other seriously but it can look quite nasty and if it was directed at us it would hurt and could even kill us - YES EVEN A MINI COLT. I am not there to see your colt and be able to deduce exactly the cause of his behaviour but my guess is he has tested his dominance over other humans before you got him and he has been reassured that he is more dominant and he is continuing the behaviour with you and has gotten past the playful stage. I don't think he is being mean or aggressive - yet. But why wait? It will escalate unless it is stopped immediately by whatever method you choose. You have been given some excellent advice in this post and you should put it into action very seriously. I have seen cheeks torn off by stallions. One person I know had her scalp removed by one just shortly before she had her stallion put to death. Stallions are a completely different animal than a mare or gelding and just like Jean says no matter how much you trust them you should never trust them implicitly. They need to be handled completely differently than a mare or gelding as they have a completely different psyche. There are very few horses that are naturally mean or aggressive - most of them have been "trained" by their owners to be that way. Although this is not strictly a Mini phenomenon it is prolific in Minis just because of the number of Mini people that own stallions and are not knowledgeable enough to handle them correctly. But anyone can learn!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I've just read ALL of these posts,

: lol, and personally I've learned a lot. I also have a 2 year old, (this month), and 6 month old, colts. They both will be kept as studs. I've raised both from birth and I'm seeing the aggression starting up in both of them, of course different stages b/c of the age difference. I sure see now I've been doing a lot of things wrong. I was just having so much fun with them and didn't think all this training had to get so serious, and wasn't being the alpha with either of them. With reading what you wrote here Lori, seems to say it all, as far as I'm concerned. I thank all of you, but this one post really opened up my eyes as to the different ways to handle my boys. To me, they're just my little kids, always showing me tons of affection and love. They run up to me when I go into the barn, or out in the field. They love hugs and attention, and get their scratches. I now realize that I have to change a lot of my ways of dealing with them, to correct or change the way they are starting to act. Now the training begins.

:

 

[disneyhorse]

I haven't read through all the posts, there are a lot of them and they basically say the same thing.

Stallion behavior is very interesting to me, because each stallion is so different. I love the challenge of stallions because they are so unpredictable and individual. I prefer them to mares or geldings!

Stallions are often given a bad rap, but it's mostly because of how they are handled. You just cannot handle them like any other horse (mare or gelding). You cannot let them get away with ANYTHING or you are setting them up for a frustrating or dangerous life.

I feel stallions need to be allowed to BE stallions. I think it is cruel to deprive them of social skills (living in a box stall and never getting to touch another horse, or never getting to act "studdy" sometimes under appropriate circumstances). Many stallions ARE deprived of social skills and it can affect them greatly.

To ME a stallion needs to learn that I am not like another horse. My role is simply one of a position of great respect. If I say something, the stallion needs to just obey and respond. I will let him know what is appropriate to do around me, and what is not appropriate to do around me. And I have to be consistent to be fair. It is NEVER appropriate to come into my space... and thus I don't have to worry about biting because a stallion will never be close enough to bite! If a stallion can bite you he has already gotten one step closer to being inappropriate... he has invaded your space. You can go into their space, but they should NEVER come into your space. You maybe should consider correcting your stallion for coming into your space FIRST, and that will solve the whole biting issue. If he is in your space, he can "play" with you.

My stallions are allowed to play and be stallions... with other horses that it is appropriate with. They need to be able to bite and fight and play. It is natural for them. If you deprive them of it, you will need to expect them to try it with you since they have no other outlet.

So... in short... keep him out of your personal space and give him an appropriate outlet to BE a stallion. If you don't like this, then you need to geld him and go from there.

Just my opinion.

Andrea

 

[New2Minis]

I haven't read through all the posts, there are a lot of them and they basically say the same thing.

Stallion behavior is very interesting to me, because each stallion is so different. I love the challenge of stallions because they are so unpredictable and individual. I prefer them to mares or geldings!

Stallions are often given a bad rap, but it's mostly because of how they are handled. You just cannot handle them like any other horse (mare or gelding). You cannot let them get away with ANYTHING or you are setting them up for a frustrating or dangerous life.

I feel stallions need to be allowed to BE stallions. I think it is cruel to deprive them of social skills (living in a box stall and never getting to touch another horse, or never getting to act "studdy" sometimes under appropriate circumstances). Many stallions ARE deprived of social skills and it can affect them greatly.

To ME a stallion needs to learn that I am not like another horse. My role is simply one of a position of great respect. If I say something, the stallion needs to just obey and respond. I will let him know what is appropriate to do around me, and what is not appropriate to do around me. And I have to be consistent to be fair. It is NEVER appropriate to come into my space... and thus I don't have to worry about biting because a stallion will never be close enough to bite! If a stallion can bite you he has already gotten one step closer to being inappropriate... he has invaded your space. You can go into their space, but they should NEVER come into your space. You maybe should consider correcting your stallion for coming into your space FIRST, and that will solve the whole biting issue. If he is in your space, he can "play" with you.

My stallions are allowed to play and be stallions... with other horses that it is appropriate with. They need to be able to bite and fight and play. It is natural for them. If you deprive them of it, you will need to expect them to try it with you since they have no other outlet.

So... in short... keep him out of your personal space and give him an appropriate outlet to BE a stallion. If you don't like this, then you need to geld him and go from there.

Just my opinion.

Andrea

Andrea,

I really enjoyed your post! It put into words exactly WHY I bought my lil colt. I too enjoy their sassyness and someone posted earlier a comment like I should have chosen a different colt. But I was attracted to his sprirt. I too think they should be allowed to act like stallions (without anyone getting hurt)and I too prefer them! I just didnt know how to correct problems already established. I have been working with him daily and he is coming along GREAT.....we went for a LONG walk yesterday and he was a frisky lil colt but NO bites!!! I truly think it is the issue with his face because when he has his head at the stall and you go to pet him he has his mouth open. The person who had him befire just threw his feed over the fence and pat him on the head over the fence so that is when most of the biting and rearing occurs, when you reach over to pet him. I have just came to realize this over the past couple of days.....Thanks!!!!