Judging question

[ruffian]

"It should not be the Judges preferences until the options of the class definition have been exhausted...ie the Judge should judge by the rules.

If the horse is not well patterned it should not win a pattern class that is to be judged on pattern alone.

If it wins because there are so many percentages given for pattern/conformation/ way of going etc, fair enough, but it should not win just cos the Judge likes it.

That is not Judging, sorry, that is just someones personal opinion, and whilst to a certain extent that is what it always is, that is not what I go in the ring to get.

I go in the ring to get the opinion of an expert who is also governed by the rules and regulations (of which there is a whole flipping book load, remember) of the Association!!!

Which is another reason it drives me NUTS when the smaller horses get no real look in!!

Read the rules, for goodness sake. "

ANY judging is that person's personal opinion. They are not using a tape measure to check the length of neck, or a level to check the flatness of a croup. You are paying for the persons OPINION.

This is not a computer judging - it is a human. Every human will have personal likes and dislikes. Many people dislike appaloosas. Many people don't care for blue eyes in horses. So you have to accept that that will affect the final judging. So a judge in ANY class is giving you his personal opinion - color class included.

 

[Jill]

ANY judging is that person's personal opinion. They are not using a tape measure to check the length of neck, or a level to check the flatness of a croup. You are paying for the persons OPINION.
This is not a computer judging - it is a human. Every human will have personal likes and dislikes. Many people dislike appaloosas. Many people don't care for blue eyes in horses. So you have to accept that that will affect the final judging. So a judge in ANY class is giving you his personal opinion - color class included.

Exactly right!!!

 

[Genie]

ANY judging is that person's personal opinion. They are not using a tape measure to check the length of neck, or a level to check the flatness of a croup. You are paying for the persons OPINION.
This is not a computer judging - it is a human. Every human will have personal likes and dislikes. Many people dislike appaloosas. Many people don't care for blue eyes in horses. So you have to accept that that will affect the final judging. So a judge in ANY class is giving you his personal opinion - color class included.

Exactly right!!!

Begs the question then, why are there judging criteria, rules and guidelines? Kind of sad, but I feel that you ARE right, it's not about being a judge, it's about what and who we like sometimes, so why bother going to judging school, just "pony up the cash" and do the shows that are required for your license and go out there and pick what your prefer.

 

[Sunny]

This thread has taken on a rather nasty tone, so all I will say with regards to judging the colour classes, is that there is very little criteria in the RULE BOOK about how they are to be judged, which is something I questioned when I went to "judging school". The way I explained what I look for in a colour class was more or less the way it was explained to me by my mentors. I hoped it would help clarify things, but I'm not sure that it did.

 

[Becky]

Thank you, Judy, for your explanation. As you said, there is very little in the rule books regarding the specifics of the color classes. This is straight from the AMHA Rule Book.

CL-020 SPECIALTY HALTER CLASSES

A. In color classes, horses are to be judged 80% on the natural

color of the horse, and conformation to count 20%.

In color classes, horses are to be circled both ways of

the ring in order to judge the 80% color. Horses must be

lined up, head to tail in the center of the arena, to judge

the 20% conformation. If offered the classes must be

divided as follows:

1. Multi-color stallions and geldings (limited to Pinto

and Appaloosa only)

2. Solid color stallions and geldings (open to all other

colors)

3. Multi-color mares (limited to Pinto and Appaloosa

only)

4. Solid color mares (open to all other colors)

Going by that, the judging IS subjective. Even following the rule specifically, as exhibitors, we are paying for a judge's opinion. This isn't a horse race where the first one under the wire wins. Horse shows are all about opinions.

But again, as far as color classes go, if you want to place well, your best shot is having a horse that represents it's color and/or pattern the best. Coat condition and grooming play a big, big part of it too. As it should.

 

[ruffian]

"Begs the question then, why are there judging criteria, rules and guidelines? Kind of sad, but I feel that you ARE right, it's not about being a judge, it's about what and who we like sometimes, so why bother going to judging school, just "pony up the cash" and do the shows that are required for your license and go out there and pick what your prefer."

Horses are living creatures, and no two are alike. It's not like a car show where you have 15 corvettes.

Judges, like normal people (LOL Judy!!) as I said, are human and have preferences. Some like quarter horses, some like Arabians, morgans, saddlebreds, moderns, classics, appaloosas etc. So there WILL be individual preferences but good judges will temper their individual preferences with the rules and guidelines of the industry.

As Judy said, the rules are brief on color classes, so the judges have a little more leeway to pick their favorite color. I don't see anything wrong with that. I have preferences in color also. If today's judge doesn't pick my horse, tomorrow's judge might love it!

 

[Jill]

They way I feel, and not with a bit of negativity, is that when you take a horse into the ring, you are paying for the judge's (s') opinion. Be that on the horse who's conformation they favor the most, the horse they think drove the best, or the horse who has the nicest color. Opinions!

It's up to us who we hold our horses out to be judged by but at the end of the day, a judge's pick is representative of a judge's opinion. Period. These horses are not spit out in uniform fashion with a template to go by... Judges use their knowledge of horses and factor in their opinions which is how it's always been and always will be. No horse has perfect conformation and beyond conformation, some judges prefer one body type over another, one color over another, ETC. This shouldn't be hard to understand, nor hard to accept with out being upset.

I do remember when I was new to showing, I sometimes didn't understand why my particular horse didn't do better, as he has very nice conformation... but so do A LOT of horses and that is where you need to be aware of type and some judges look for different things in that regard.

 

[MiLo Minis]

I like to think of the colour classes as a class where the health and vitality of your horse should be considered. Only a horse in perfect health and condition will have a coat that glistens and blooms! Each and every colour that a horse comes in is BEAUTIFUL! You may not like EVERY colour but there is someone out there who does like the colour you don't. I love the way Judy judges a colour class. She picks the best example of each colour, the one that exhibits the shiniest, healthiest coat in each of the different colours. I wish all the judges worked it that way rather than just picking their favourite colour, that way more people would work towards having their horse in peak condition. Hey! Under her judging even my often neglected by the judge PLAIN little sorrel has won in colour class with his, to my mind, GORGEOUS shiny red coat and long shiny flaxen mane and tail.

 

[~Lisa~]

Rabbit the rules do not state it has to be a certain pattern short of a appy of pinto. It does not state a leopard appy wins over a blanketed appy or a horse with more white wins over a horse with less.

It does not say a 50/50 pattern is the best- it does not say a solid bay is better then anything else therefore in reality it is a class set up to be very subjective AMHR is 100 percent on color but lets be honest even when it comes to conformation there are many "long time" breeders and exhibitors that may feel they have horses who have the best conformation but that to is subjective

That is what judging is period one persons paid opinion of your horse at that moment in the ring on that day

 

[rabbitsfizz]

In a pattern class, is it judged purely on pattern, 50/50 pattern conformation, or what...sorry, just can't remember....I know I did know once!!!

 

[mydaddysjag]

Keep in mind also that on some horses dapples come and go. For example, my 3 yo. palomino gelding has dapples right now, Didnt have them in the past, but regardless, he is still a solid horse.

 

[~Lisa~]

It is not a pattern class which I think might be part of the problem in understanding the judging it is simply a class for multi- colored and solid colored horses and it is judged in AMHR 100 percent on color. It does not say anything about judged on best pattern or best representation of a appy or pinto as really that depends on who is looking at the horse there is no such thing as the best leopard appy someone may prefer big huge spots others may prefer tiny spots.

It does not say the darkest deepest of palominos or the brightest of blood bays or most dappled silver. It says simply to be judged 100 percent on color. This leaves it to be a very subjective class and one I personally consider a fun class to do but I know it is based 100 percent on personal preference

 

[Mr.T]

One needs to put the very best representative of a coat color or pattern in a color class in order to expect to place well.

As a judge, I would agree with this statement completely. Generally speaking, when I look at a colour class, solid colour specifically in this case, I look for the best of each colour, like the best grey, the best black, palomino, sorrel, etc. I also consider coat condition, shine and cleanliness. I've been to many shows where it's obvious that the judge likes black horses, for example, as the top three are that colour! I rarely, if ever, use the same colour twice.

As for the multi-colour classes, I look for even pattern on both sides (which may or may not be 50/50) in the case of pintos, and good examples of the various appy patterns. As with the solids, I also look for good coat condition, etc.

Backwoodsnanny wrote: "Color classes to me can be as subjective as halter classes it is what the judge likes on the day of the show." I don't agree with this comment because halter classes have a certain criteria by which they're to be judged, that being the standard of perfection. Personal preferences do play a role to a certain extent, but not nearly as much as in the colour classes, in my opinion.

Hope this helps.

I was just curious to why with pintos you looked for an even pattern on both sides? would you prefer an exotic colored horse to a pretty even patterned horse?

 

[Genie]

In a pattern class, is it judged purely on pattern, 50/50 pattern conformation, or what...sorry, just can't remember....I know I did know once!!!

I think page 251 in the AMHR rule book contains the answer.

 

[Genie]

Rabbit the rules do not state it has to be a certain pattern short of a appy of pinto. It does not state a leopard appy wins over a blanketed appy or a horse with more white wins over a horse with less.It does not say a 50/50 pattern is the best- it does not say a solid bay is better then anything else therefore in reality it is a class set up to be very subjective AMHR is 100 percent on color but lets be honest even when it comes to conformation there are many "long time" breeders and exhibitors that may feel they have horses who have the best conformation but that to is subjective

That is what judging is period one persons paid opinion of your horse at that moment in the ring on that day

Changing the coat color of a horse is not permitted but

highlighting the mane and tail, eyes, ears, muzzle, etc.,

is permissible.

O. Multi-color classes are open to pinto and appaloosa

horses only. Judged 100% on color. Horses to enter the

ring counter-clockwise (to the right), and walk in a

circle; then reverse to the opposite direction so the

Judge may see both sides of the horse. The horses are

to remain in a circle to be judged.

P. Solid-color classes are open to all horses other than

pinto and appaloosas. Judged 100% on color. Horses

to enter the ring counter-clockwise (to the right), and

 

[georgiegirl]

Does anyone know what to do with a gray horse that WAS a pinto or Appy? Our gray mare is really a pinto and we never showed her in color at the Pinto shows and never considered showing her in color at AMHA. Since she is a registered Pinto, would she be considered a "Multi-color"?

If a pinto horse is gray and had spots at one time, when wet the spots will show.

I believe that someone won a championship at Pinto World, in a color class, with a solid white horse that was pinto colored at one time. I was curious how that worked?????

I have a red roan gelding that has a pie bald face and white hind clear above the hocks. He has a white mane and tail. I was told to put him in the solid class in spite of the fact he has lots of chrome. The judge was totally confused, but the show officials told me to put him in the solid color so that is where I put him.