Just head from a BOD member

[alongman]

I agree that there has to be some method to determine who is eligible for a Foundation seal...... I didn't get that point clarified, but I'm guessing that there is something somewhere.

As for the judging aspect - it is VERY difficult at some times. In the Foundation class if there is two conformationally correct ponies and one non-conformationally correct Foundation, what do you do?! I would LOVE to hear the opinions...... if I place the truly Foundation pony then this is seen as placing a lesser pony over the others. If I place the classicy ponies, then I'm placing possibly off-type. What is the solution?! I don't think there is a great one...... PLUS it puts the judges in a very sticky situation. I think that we all, yes, even the new people, should look at the standard of perfection as established by the rule book. It clearly spells out what each division should look like - I believe that the ponies in the "gray" area are less scrutinized as they do possibly look somewhat like two types, it's the ones that are CLEARLY Classic showing Foundation that cause the problems.

 

[bingo]

Well the only logical way to continue on with the foundation seal program is to allow only foals born to those currently foundation sealed sire and dam to be eligible for registrion

 

[Lmequine]

Well the only logical way to continue on with the foundation seal program is to allow only foals born to those currently foundation sealed sire and dam to be eligible for registrion

The only problem with this (breeding only foundation sealed ponies to foundation seal ponies) is there was no warning of the change. I have three foundation mares in their mid-twenties that I do not have foundation sealed. I could not see paying to have that done and then them never producing another foal. When and if they do foal I pay to have the foal foundation cerfified. I have recently bought a couple of foundation mares (very foundation type) that have never been certified and I have not had a chance to get that done yet with them. Again, if I would have been told that the program was going to be changed I could have gotten those mares certified.

 

[Shari S]

I spoke with Belinda tonight, and if I understood correctly, NOTHING is changing regarding Foundation ponies. The registry will still be able to do a pedigree search to certify a pony, those ponies who already have Foundation seals are still foundation ponies, etc. It will still take a foundation certified pony, under 42" to be eligible to show in a Foundation class.

Shari Seddon

Rhapsody Shetlands

 

[Boinky]

you would think for research/registry purposes they'd still leave the A/B's on the papers but to change the show rules that they show by TYPE.....

 

[Lewella]

you would think for research/registry purposes they'd still leave the A/B's on the papers but to change the show rules that they show by TYPE.....

I agree! As breeders we use the A and the B as a tool when planning matings.

Why couldn't ALL OF THIS have waited until Convention??? What was the hurry???

I now know how the AMHR folks felt when the Hardship of grades was closed with no warning!

 

[muffntuf]

So I don't think all is lost now. By rules Foundations would have stayed foundation and not been lost. It sounds like have cemented that in.

I wonder how they are going to notify the membership of this change - the next Journal which doesn't reach us until late May early June? Or are they going to send out letters?

Guess we have to wait.

 

[Sharron]

My take on the controversy of removing the A's & B's from the papers...this response was in answer to Arlene Foulk's reply on another board...I still feel as strongly as I did when I wrote and posted it to that board...Instead of belaboring the point to death, maybe we should all step back and look at breeding programs...and try to access if we are doing and breeding the type of ponies we really want...and can market them as truly as possible according to their type!!! Who can answer yes to that statement honestly...I for one can!

Both exhibitors and judges have the responsibility of knowing the difference between foundation and classic. Arlene

My comment "it needs to also fall back on the breeders!!! To know what type of ponies they are producing and market them accordingly!"

I agree Arlene, however EVERYONE that is breeding ponies SHOULD know which TYPE of ponies THEY are breeding for. If they don't then WHY are they breeding ponies at all? And if they don't, then they need to EDUCATE themselves on the various types on ponies within our association! An occassional anticipated breeding of mare to stallion, just may NOT produce the anticipated type...every breeder should know where that resulting pony goes...even IF it does have a foundation seal on it's papers, and is obviously Classic in type...again breeder responsibility!

Most successful breeding programs, that have proven winners in their divisions, the breeders KNOW the type of ponies they are producing, putting them in their correct divisions irregardless of the A or B on the papers, and I feel very strongly those individuals will continue to be the responsible breeders they are and continue to place their ponies in the correct type they should be in... As far as the new people to our wonderful breed of ponies...it is THEIR responsibility to do some research before they buy a pony, and NOT take someone's word that "that is what they were told, as to where the pony should be shown" and it is up to US the breeders to market our ponies correctly, and help EDUCATE these new people to help them understand the many nuances of the pony world. Again breeder responsibility... Marketing ponies in the area they are typed in, and not just to make a sale, hanging that new owner out to dry and make them look like fools, because they were told by the breeder that "this pony should be shown in Foundation"! When it is actually a Classic or MP!

In todays depressed economy, it is hard enough to get a decent price for a pony these days, with out driving away our potential buyers, by making a huge too doo about removing the A or B from a ponies papers.

Most people wouldn't go out and buy a car or truck without doing some research as to which would suit them the best...Why would they go out and buy a pony without doing the same research?

I also have talked to some directors, Amber's post about the computer doing the percentages, was correct...How would you feel if you sent in papers on a pony that had A papers on both sides, and got a B papered pony back, because the "human error" was taken out of the figuring the equasion, for the pony...the computer only knows percentages...This unfortunately goes WAY back in our association when "favors" and mis-figuring was done, by accident or on purpose. It is Now time to correct those mistakes, and move forward to giving our ponies more credibility as far as other breed associations and the horse world in general are concerned...we have to take THE steps to move forward and educate not only the new buyers, but some breeders that are in confusion, as to the type of ponies they are producing, I have preached for years EDUCATE, EDUCATE, EDUCATE...Now is the time to step up to the plate, and either GET educated, or educate those that need it.

OK Flame suit on...fire away...

Sharron

 

[alongman]

Sharron -

I do agree with everything you said, my only response is this - the membership voted NOT to do this. Our BOD went against what it seems the membership wanted. I, for one, had no idea that this was occurring at the BOD meeting, didn't see it published anywhere (maybe I missed it). That is my biggest issue with the whole matter - not that it is changing but the way it did.

 

[Sharron]

Sharron -

I do agree with everything you said, my only response is this - the membership voted NOT to do this. Our BOD went against what it seems the membership wanted. I, for one, had no idea that this was occurring at the BOD meeting, didn't see it published anywhere (maybe I missed it). That is my biggest issue with the whole matter - not that it is changing but the way it did.

Hi Adam

We all have to remember that this organization IS a BOARD run organization, and they can make any decision concerning the running of the Club, that they deem necessary...They have the right to overturn the decision made by the members at convention. I realize many feel this was done "sneakily, and it came as a shock to me too, but when I thought about what "could have happened" by not catching the mistakes that put up the red flag in the first place, and realized the thousands of papers that would have made a munity of the members...this seemed like a logical move...I agree with Amy R when she says we need to wait and see how this is all going to play out...

JMO for what it's worth...

sharron

 

[alongman]

Thanks for your input Sharron......

 

[mendocinobackofbeyond]

Hi All: I'll be repeating some things that others have said and I apologize. Some misconceptions: The A/B thing has nothing to do with AMHR; nor anything to do with the height of Foundation type ponies. It is strictly to do with A/B designation on Shetland papers. Also, a currently registered B Shetland will not be able to show in the Classic classes. The already designated B animals will remain just that that B. It will only be new registered ponies that will have no A/B and it is possible that some of them would have, under the old rules, been registered B, but will no longer. I don't know that it's necessarily going to be a bad thing. I doubt very seriously that I would ever breed a B to a B and then try to show the offspring Classic -- even I'm not brave enough to push the line that much!

I do think they'll have to do something to insure that the Foundation ponies can stay Foundation and that Foundation breeders can be assurred that no B is allowed to drift into their stock.

Since we're already supposed to showing by type, that shouldn't change either. Right now I think we're all, a little bit, running around screaming "the sky is falling, the sky is falling".

An interesting note: if would help if the BOD was better informed before they attend their meetings. I spoke with both of my Directors and they did get an agenda (novel idea), but on the agenda, all it had noted was "A+A= B". No follow up materials. Zip. So our Directors, and not just Area 7 (only Jim Curry able to attend this meeting), had no idea what they were walking into...which seems to be the method of accomplishing things in this organization. The BOD is treated sort of like they rounded up mustangs in the old days for slaughter -- run 'em down the canyon, into the pen; up the ramp into the truck and drop 'em at the slaughter house before they have a chance to think, or talk to their membership. JMO Ta, Shirlee

 

[txminipinto]

An interesting note: if would help if the BOD was better informed before they attend their meetings. I spoke with both of my Directors and they did get an agenda (novel idea), but on the agenda, all it had noted was "A+A= B". No follow up materials. Zip. So our Directors, and not just Area 7 (only Jim Curry able to attend this meeting), had no idea what they were walking into...which seems to be the method of accomplishing things in this organization. The BOD is treated sort of like they rounded up mustangs in the old days for slaughter -- run 'em down the canyon, into the pen; up the ramp into the truck and drop 'em at the slaughter house before they have a chance to think, or talk to their membership. JMO Ta, Shirlee

How in the world is this even possible???? Who brings these items to the table? Someone has to, they just don't fall out of the sky. It is not fair to the Directors or the membership to dump these items in their lap to decide on there and then w/o giving them the opportunity to consult their Area membership! It is setting up these ELECTED officials for failure in doing so. Because in voting one way or the other, the membership will be upset for not being contacted and allowing their voices to be herd (which is what is happening now).

 

[Lmequine]

How in the world is this even possible???? Who brings these items to the table? Someone has to, they just don't fall out of the sky. It is not fair to the Directors or the membership to dump these items in their lap to decide on there and then w/o giving them the opportunity to consult their Area membership! It is setting up these ELECTED officials for failure in doing so. Because in voting one way or the other, the membership will be upset for not being contacted and allowing their voices to be herd (which is what is happening now).

That is exactly what happened. The BOD members got an agenda a week before the meeting and one of the topics listed was A + A = B. Who the heck was suppose to know what that meant??

 

[ownedbyapony]

Hi Shirlee,

In response to the following.

Also, a currently registered B Shetland will not be able to show in the Classic classes.

I have checked into this and currently registered B shetlands WILL be able to show in classic classes.

Kindest Regards,

Amber

 

[Lmequine]

I have checked into this and currently registered B shetlands WILL be able to show in classic classes.

Kindest Regards,

Amber

That is also what I was told by the office today that when making my show entries that are due tomorrow if I have a B papered pony that I want to show as a classic then to enter that pony as a classic. I was also told AT THIS TIME ponies will still have to be certified foundation in order to show in the foundation division. I was also told that this could change at the BOD discretion but it was the ASPC office's current understanding that to show foundation the pony still had to have a foundation seal.

 

[Belinda]

Ok,

First let me say once again as several have already stated..



[SIZE=12pt]"THE FOUNDATION REMAINS THE SAME , YOU STILL MUST MEET ALL THE REQUIREMENTS SET FORTH IN OUR RULE BOOK PERTAINING TO SHOWING OR REGISTRING YOUR FOUNDATION PONY"[/SIZE] We were very adamant about that !!! The office has told me the A & B 's will still be on the pedigrees in the computer.. So I assume You will be able to see them on the Stud Book also.. ? You will be able to Foundation Certified your ponies, today , tomorrow, next year and years after that ,[SIZE=10pt] NOTHING has Changed with the Foundation !! [/SIZE] I have spoke to several of you on the phone , as I much prefer that then going into long discussions on these forums..

I would also like to say regardless of what has been said and what a few of you believe and I will never convince you otherwise , this was not a sneak attack , behind the back or whatever else you want to think , I myself just received my agenda on Mon... This issue was NOT taken lightly , and there was Lots of Discussion , Lots of input, lots of what ifs, and what to do if 's and so on.. Personally I left there feeling like I am a Janitor sent to clean up all my Fore Fathers Garbage !!

No Disrespect Intended to anyone...

You vote your Directors in to look out for and represent your best interest.. And I truly believe that Your Board has the Best Interest of OUR Assoc.. in their Heart..

Remember your board Members are also owners , breeders , trainers, Judges, stewards, show managers etc.. So all aspects of OUR Assoc. is represented in Your Board Members.. Our Board Meetings are open to any of the members and actually there were members there that sat in on most all of the board meetings.. The Only time we go into Closed Session is when we discuss Salary' s of the office staff , or when there is a a Personal issue involving a member .

We sat in the Board room Sat. from 8:30 A.M. until well after 10 PM.. And back there Sun. Morning until Sunday after noon,, And believe me it is NOT a Cake walk..

I can not speak for anyone other than myself , but I can tell you I truly think very hard about things before I vote and I think with the Good of the Members and the Assoc as a whole in MIND !

I can only say that someday those that accuse and point fingers at all the Board Members as being self serving and Sneaks, and what ever else I have read on the Internet the last 24 hours , someday have the chance to sit a term on the Board.

And when you do let me know how you feel after Donating your time and energy for your Assoc.. and you come home and read the Bashing without the COMPLETE FACTS.. Anyone in my area or even if you are not in my area are welcome to call me and I will try my hardest to explain my take on this subject.. And how it came to be..

Thanks for listening !

 

[strass]

Belinda,

I haven’t posted on here in months, but this one brought me out of the word-work long enough for one post.

Being on the Board is not an easy job. It’s not something that a new person should be doing and it’s certainly not for a weak or easily influenced person to do. Decisions like this are always tough to make. While I do not personally agree with this one, I do respect the Board and know that all the members took this topic seriously and did what they felt was truly best for the organization as a whole. You can’t make everyone happy all the time. In the horse world, you can’t make everyone happy at the same time even once.

At least the Foundation program is still intact. The integrity of the Foundation Seal must be protected. The membership agreed to this at Convention and the Board seems to have remembered that. It just seems that it might be a bit more challenging for us to verify that we are getting closer to obtaining that seal.

In short, you’re still the “B”, I still love you, and I thank you for your willingness to serve as our Representative. There are a lot worse options out there than you.

 

[Shari S]

Belinda,

I haven’t posted on here in months, but this one brought me out of the word-work long enough for one post.

Being on the Board is not an easy job. It’s not something that a new person should be doing and it’s certainly not for a weak or easily influenced person to do. Decisions like this are always tough to make. While I do not personally agree with this one, I do respect the Board and know that all the members took this topic seriously and did what they felt was truly best for the organization as a whole. You can’t make everyone happy all the time. In the horse world, you can’t make everyone happy at the same time even once.

At least the Foundation program is still intact. The integrity of the Foundation Seal must be protected. The membership agreed to this at Convention and the Board seems to have remembered that. It just seems that it might be a bit more challenging for us to verify that we are getting closer to obtaining that seal.

In short, you’re still the “B”, I still love you, and I thank you for your willingness to serve as our Representative. There are a lot worse options out there than you.

I agree. Thank you for serving, Belinda.

Shari Seddon

Rhapsody Shetlands

 

[alongman]

Belinda - I do agree that much thought and effort went into this decision. I guess my only question is this. If you got YOUR agenda so soon to the meeting, how would the general public know what was being discussed and make arrangements to attend? That seems like something that we need to look into so that we can all be better informed.