Just some of my own thoughts and feelings

[FairytailGlennMinis]

I guess I feel a bit differently. I wish that people who want to raise "just pet quality" would go and pick up those cheap auction babies and raise them to be the affectionate and wonderful pets that they want. Just because it wasn't born on your property with you watching doesn't make it need a home any less. The "not show quality" horse need can well be filled by the breeding of great horses simply because not every cross works. I feel it is our responsibility to the breed to do our level best to better it. Crossing the cow-hocked, hunchbacked, toed out stallion to the mare with an off bite, bad stifles and neck coming out from between her front legs just because YOU want a baby is just plain stupid and selfish in my opinion. That doesn't mean snobbery or that only "perfect" (no such thing) horses should be bred...just that there are certain faults and combinations of faults that should not be, IMHO.

There are TOO MANY horses being produced--period. Go to any sale, check any local paper or feed store bulletin board and you will see pets that need homes. I think it would be more rewarding to save a life that way. I don't breed. As much as I love to think of a couple of sweet little babies, I just won't do it. Am I depriving myself? Well maybe a touch, but my own need to cuddle a baby can be filled other ways that don't involve bringing more animals into a world already filled to the brink and pushing over into sale pens and slaughter trucks.

There....those are MY thoughts.

 

[Danielle_E.]

Crossing the cow-hocked, hunchbacked, toed out stallion to the mare with an off bite, bad stifles and neck coming out from between her front legs just because YOU want a baby is just plain stupid and selfish in my opinion.

Is this what all of you consider "pet quality"???? That is why I asked earlier what your definition is of "pet quality" versus "show quality". There are "pets" out there who are nothing like what is described above and yet the minute the word "pet" is mentioned you seem to attach the subjective word "quality". The two do NOT have to go hand in hand and for some reason some here seem to assume that if you say "pet" it means inferior comformation, WRONG. Pet means exactly that, it is not an animal that is being shown by choice of the person who owns it. The terms that should be being used is "quality (meaning breed standard)" and "non breed standard" because you are truly missing the mark when using the term "pet" in conjuction with quality. All my minis are "pets" at the moment and all conform to the breed standard and certainly could be shown. Would they win a Championship class at Nationals?? Who knows, one could certainly BUT you have to remember that judging is very subjective and what wins one day does necessarily win the next day or at the next show.

I have to add that I personally do not know anyone on this forum that is breeding what is quoted above but I do know many people who have their minis as "pets" and breed them and sell them to other people who also want them as "pets".

 

[Buckskin gal]

Connie, I can only speak for myself and I certainly don't want any one to have hurt feelings...we have to keep in mind that after giving very careful thought to why we are breeding then we make the choice. I know it can be be a wonderful experience to have foals and to have buyers that truly are good owners and enjoy them. But...we always have to keep in mind that even though we can breed horses doesn't make it always the right thing to do. Personally, I think breeding is something that shouldn't be done just because we enjoy it because we have to look at the whole picture of these neat little horses. Yes, it is a pleasure to see people enjoy them/take good take care of them but not all horses end up in a situation like that. Many are abused, starved, lonely, neglected, not wanted after getting them etc. and this is a side that many breeders do not look at or care about. What I truly believe, is that we have to put our own enjoyment of breeding second to making sure the ones we bring into the world have a full life of always being wanted and cared for. It is the responsibility that has to be put ahead of just our enjoyment of these living creatures. I totally agree that any person is due their opinion and that is why we should allow each their opinion and not get hurt feelings. Wehave freedom but we also have the responsibilities that come with that freedom...just because we are free to do something does not always make it right. especially when we are taling about bringing lives into this world that have to be considered. Just like people have the right to bring children into this world ...just because they can does not make it always right for the child. If a person can afford the costs of doctors, food, shelter etc. and can provide for all the needs of that child. only then should they have that child....and I don't mean depend on the government AND OTHERS for those needs. Same with bringing ur minis into the world.

I haven't seen where anyone was denied their opinion on this thread...all I see is a difference of opinions, some with passion. No fights are intended...only thought provoking opinions, as it should be. We can't just consider our rights ...we should also be considering the rights of animals which we are responsible for coming into this world. This said, I have had no intention of hurting any feelings and I hope you just read this as an opionion rather than an attempt to hurt feelings....don't have time for that kind of nonesense. To sum this up, I believe we all have to be very thoughtful when bringing lives into this world ...JMHO

: mARY

I havent joined this forum, as I have found it, and others, only results in hurt feelings BUT...this subject is just too close to my heart to ignore! In this land of the free, any American is due their opinion. My Fore fathers fought and died for the right of free speach, and our own personal opinion!!!! These are our given rights as Americans! These little ones are here for us to love and cherish, not to fight as to who's horse should be gelded, who's horse is "pet" quality, or who should be shown. This is a venture that is suppose to be full of love and caring persons towards minis!!! (and each other) I do not imply that I am in any way an expert, but the experence I have had with showing and trainers, is devestating. I dont have the heart to not let a horse (or any animal) be allowed to be what God intended. Happy, healthy, and able to have a full life. I have beautiful horses, I have bought from beautiful people, and only 1 person had the opinion that my stallion wasnt good enough to bred, and should be a gelding. Well he isnt, and throws beautiful foals that have made many happy, isnt that what we are doing? Putting smile on peoples faces? All things arent for all people, its that American thing again. Susan O. You keep up the work you are doing promoting these guys for what they really are, ADORABLE!! Thats just my opinion. Connie Roundy

 

[SilverDollar]

I have really enjoyed reading this thread. Lots of thought-provoking opinions. I am not a breeder nor do I even intend to be; my heart lies in rescue--too many needy ones out there. That being said, though, I do agree that if you're going to breed, then breed the best to the best. Nature allows the survival of the fittest and the natural culling out of the weakest of a species. Personally, I believe breeders have that responsibility, too. (No, I DON'T mean that breeders ought to kill off the less-desirable offspring!) Just that they have a responsibility to try and avoid offspring with known congenital traits or deformities.

This thread reminds me of when my husband and I were undergoing infertility treatments. (Never did have kids but lots of horses instead.)

I remember friends of mine at the time who were also undergoing treatments and some were selecting donors from sperm banks and others were selecting egg donors. I have to tell you that there was never a demand for certain qualities in donors (high-school dropouts, homely ones, super-short or bowlegged). Now no offense is meant to anyone with those traits, but they were not at the top of the list of desired donors that people were willing to pay a lot of money to. And not that children with those traits are loved any less by their parents. The most popular donors were the beautiful, Harvard-graduates with perfect teeth, hair and skin. Now what does that tell you about what humans want??

: I just thought the similarities are quite ironic to the animal breeding world.

JMHO.

 

[AppyLover2]

Just a comment about a thought that crossed my mind the other day.

Does anybody know of any other breed of horse who is classified as "pet quality"?? Or, for that matter, any other animal?? I've never heard of pet appaloosas or pet quarter horses. There are working dogs and show dogs but I've never heard of pet dogs (although I would imagine that's what 95% of the people around the world have).

My horses are "pets" because that's what I choose to do with them. IMO "Pet" is the life an animal leads........not what that particular breeding produced.

And Jane your comment "we cannot all have exactly what we want at exactly the moment we want it" is true. At 65 I've learned to wait and completely agree with you. But wait for what?? Wait until somebody else tells us that we have something worth breeding?

 

[disneyhorse]

AppyLover2...

I think the largest difference between minis and "other horse breeds" is that miniature horses have such a large percentage of gross conformation issues compared to other breeds of horses and ponies... and most are not culled out to auctions and feed lots because of their small size. It costs a LOT to just feed a "pet" big horse, while a mini can more easily purely be a pet.

In larger horse breeds, if you cannot use it due to medical or severe conformation issues, it generally ends up at auction or slaughter. Big horses break down faster with the conformation faults that minis tend to have.

I think AS A WHOLE the "quality" of miniature horses is much, much poorer than most other breeds.

Most people who are unfamiliar with miniature horses always comment to me "Wow your little guys don't look like the stumpy-legged big-headed minis I usually see!" which confirms my observations.

I browse miniature horse sites here on Lil-Beginnings, and I browse horse sites of other breeds I am interested in, and the vast majority of poor-quality minis would not be useable at all as a larger animal.

And as to dogs, there ABSOLUTELY is pet quality dogs and show quality dogs. Reputable breeders sell their pets (usually only one or two out of a litter at most are "show quality") as a limited-breeding registration. I bought my mini aussie at a pet price. The show dogs sold for a lot more and there was no spay/neuter in the contract for those dogs.

Andrea

 

[rabbitsfizz]

There is also the difference with Minis that EVERYONE (with a few notable exceptions) seems to think they can buy a couple and make money!!

No-one would do that with dogs or QHs for that matter.

I would LOVE to be able to sell my foals on a "no breeding" policy- I should be able to put it on the papers, as I can with my puppies, and sell the foal at a reduced price.

But I cannot and, even if I sell on a no breeding contract it is unenforceable and, one the papers are transferred the registry will register the foals, irrespective of the agreement I have with the purchase.

Anyway I am sure that someone would tell me I have no right to do that as they have a right to breed the animal they have bought!!!

Basically it is not a matter of pet quality/show quality.

I tend not to get foals with cow hocks, ewe necks etc.

For me, to breed, a stallion/colt has to better than good.

Much, MUCH better.

So, automatically 80% of my colts are pets.

They are probably still better than a lot that are bred- so what??

I do not consider the breeding standard and I have bred them so they are gelded or go on a gelding contract.

I cannot do that with the equivalent fillies- and I still do get a few that are plain, or heavy or whatever.

What I am trying to say is they are not up to MY standard and I bred them, so I should have the final say in whether they go out into the world, with my name on them, as breeding animals.

 

[Tony]

Beautifully put, Susan.

 

[miniappy]

I stand corrected. I was in dog showing for 20 years, and I did have pet quality pups, and show quality. All my little ones are pets. I do not breed for numbers or money, There are no cow hocked, hunchbacked, towed in, horses on my place. First thing I tell a buyer, if they need to get rid of foal they bought from me, to please give me the chance to buy back. I also contact them, to inquire as to how things are going, and offer any advise or help with their new baby. I am not a mass producer of foals, I agree anything can be over bred. I just have a passion for these guys, and with 45 acres, I can afford to have a few. I have rescued a number of horses this past year, but it wasnt from people over breeding, or buying horses they find they dont want. It is always a serious health problem with owner, the last 4, the lady cried like a child as she cold no longer take care of herself, let alone anything else. So there are many reasons to bred or not to bred. It is a personal decision, and hopefully a well thought out one. I will leave it at that, but I do appreciate all replys, I fell you learn from others, and I would like to know all I can, to keep my horses safe and happy! Thanks you all for your valued opinions! Connie Roundy :saludando:

 

[FairytailGlennMinis]

I think there is a big misunderstanding here that show quality means not a pet or that what we are calling "pet quality" is a bad thing. ALL of my horses have ALWAYS been pets! When I was showing AQHA and apps and later saddlebreds--they were all pets....but they were show quality, well put together pets. I REFUSE to tell someone "yeah yeah, SURE you should breed your little goose-rumped. horiibly conformed stallion and mares since they are SO sweet."!!

People are getting offended here about the term "pet quality" when for the sake of the breed and breeding it it is usually meant as "not breeding/showing quality". I have been to exactly one AMHR show, several WC shows and lots of open and carriage driving shows. I have yet to see a perfect horse, but I have sen many that in my opinion should not have their faults bred on. I guess it is a good thing we have the freedom of speach and choice. People are free to breed those faults back into the lines, but it sure isn't helping the breed at all in my opinion! I would LOVE to see a breed standard inforced...I really would! My biggest pet peeves in breeding are the stifle and suspensory problems (along with dwarf traits of course). One of my favorite horses out there is a silver dapple app with dwarfy ears and a bad done--but MAN can he drive! Those ears and head would sure rule him out of any breeding plan for me. Luckily his former owners saw that and he is an awsome gelding. He is a great ADS horse, a great pet, a great little ambassador--but he is NOT breeding quality--no shame in that.

Pet quality (not to be confused with being a good pet--which seems to be a hot button and very misunderstood) only means that it has faults that most people don't want bred back into the lines! Every horse we breed now will have an affect on generations to come. This "oh but I love him /her and want more of him/her" attitude without really looking at what you are breeding and taking into consideration the future generations is only going to perpetuate the faults we see today and make them worse.

 

[Triggy&Blue&Daisy Too]

I think the focus on pet vs show quality is a moot point. No one can legitimately claim their foals are show quality until that baby steps in the ring and has been judged to meet the standard of perfection closely enough to consistantly win against others in their league. I would love to see even see once a breeder advertise only that the foal may have the potential to do well but to claim it is from the start is a falacy.

Most minatures do go to pet homes but that is not reason enough to produce them for the sake of producing them because it makes someone happy to pump a few foals out every year. The breeder's farm is rarely the last stop for that animal and the focus should always been on that animal's future not someone's momentary pleasure. Which leads to the line of thought that to breed mediocre animals just because it is a right is not only a disservice to the breed but it is without thought to the kind of existence a less than high quality horse may be leading for the remainder of it's days. Quality is no gaurantee a horse will remain loved and wanted its entire life but it sure doesn't hurt their chances either.

 

[RGKminiatures]

If there weren't so many horses in rescue or going through local auctions as weanlings and selling for almost nothing (if they sell at all) I would agree... I WANT to agree because deep in my heart more then anything I WANT to breed and I just can't afford a really fine quality herd. But I just can't look at the horses in need of homes and breed without feeling terribly guilty. If I breed it wouldn't be to sell, it would be to add another tiny horse to my family... but how can I justify that when I can just go to the auction, pay $25 for a weanling of the same quality I could produce or better, and save it from god only knows what horrors? I can't justify that. Not for myself.

I so agree with this. :aktion033:

I bought my first mini at a auction. His legs aren't perfect and he will be gelded but I will use him to help children love horses and also as a therapy horse for the nursing homes in the area. My breeding line will take a long time to get going but I bought the best I can afford and hope to have a wonderful time learning about the breed and how to show them.

 

[Margo_C-T]

I spent last evening and just now reading every post in this thread; FairytailGlenn, Buckskin gal, Triggy, 'Fizzy--I especially admire and respect your posts and your positions!

It appears to me that in the 'pet vs show "quality" debate, it is being assumed that the reference is to showing ONLY IN HALTER(which are 'supposed to be' conformation/adherence-to-breed-standard, classes--but so often, really aren't....and not just in miniatures!) -- in other words, if a given horse probably wouldn't 'win big' in HALTER, it is referred to as 'pet' quality. This is a very misguided approach. I like 'pretty' as well as anyone, but believe me when I say that my top priority is NOT how much a horse might win/has won in the breed Halter show ring!

Almost ANY horse, ESPECIALLY miniature horses, can be a (great)pet; properly handled and treated. What should be remembered is that IF you want even a "PET" to be able to do more than just stand around and look cute, they need to have a certain level of correct conformational components--and since horses that ARE conformationally correct can be as 'cute' as any, AND stand a better chance of being able to 'do' the kind of things humans want to 'do' with them, then why not try one's best to produce the correct ones? Horses, big or small, evolved needing to be athletic(they had to be, or be caught/killed by predators!) Mankind, not natural evolution, has created miniature horses; almost no miniature horse, esp. those that are truly small, has much of a chance against predators, no matter HOW athletic the horse, for the very REASON of their small size(therefore, their safety becomes our human responsibility). However, they are still horses, and if they are to be able to 'perform' (i.e., as driving horses, Hunter/Jumpers), they may well be able to do so, and capably, even if they aren't "halter horses' per se...when they are pretty conformationally correct. I agree w/ Disneyhorse; there are LOTS of conformational flaws within miniatures, many of which would mean immediate disqualification as performance animals in other breeds...yet are tolerated and in fact, passed on. Honestly, I think this is in MANY instances due to a basic lack of deep and genuine knowledge of conformational features AND how important each is to atleticism and long-term soundness, among many who 'get into' miniatures. JMHO--no one who does not have a lengthy history and background in that specific area should be a 'breeder', especially one who breeds to sell, of animals--most specifically, dogs and horses! Own them, love them, enjoy them, show them, if it suits you--by all means!---but don't 'become a breeder'!

My ole hide is thick, so I don't bother with a flame suit.....

Margo

 

[Mercysmom]

If there weren't so many horses in rescue or going through local auctions as weanlings and selling for almost nothing (if they sell at all) I would agree... I WANT to agree because deep in my heart more then anything I WANT to breed and I just can't afford a really fine quality herd. But I just can't look at the horses in need of homes and breed without feeling terribly guilty. If I breed it wouldn't be to sell, it would be to add another tiny horse to my family... but how can I justify that when I can just go to the auction, pay $25 for a weanling of the same quality I could produce or better, and save it from god only knows what horrors? I can't justify that. Not for myself.

There is no absolute guarantee that even high quality stock won't end up in bad places someday, but let's face it, it's at least a little less likely.

Excellent posts from all! :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033:

:

We never know what will happen each day that we wake up to face another day.... I consider myself lucky and my horses fortunate everyday we are healthy and problem free.

:

That is what makes horses so intriguing to be around... being the perpetual student!

Denise

Silversong Farm

 

[mad for mini's]

Interesting posts , Some I totally agree with , some I don't but can understand where they are coming from and one in particular that totally infuriated me.( hence I had to post this) I myself own four , a stud colt( for now) and three fillies . I feel that if a responsible owner wanted to breed thier horses, that is thier right. (emphasis on responsible). I am sure that there are many so called "show quality" horses leading peaceful backyard lives that will never be seen or have a title applied to their name. That does not make them any less valuable or breedable than something named " National " this or that. And NO ONE has the right to judge or condemn a responsible so called "pet quality"owner because they would like to breed thier own and have thier farm name placed on a foal of their own breeding. Especially if it is only to add to the owners own herd, as long as they are capable of keeping and caring for it responsibly. NO ONE has the right to try and deny any owner that feeling of pride and accomplishment . Even if it doesn't add up to some judges view of " breed standard". I am not saying that obvious, health compromising, faults are OK to breed, anyone intentionaly breeding a known fault which results in the suffering of a horse should be :new_2gunsfiring_v1: just that someone that is happy with the way their horses look and want to try breeding a few of thier own they should be able to without getting attacked for it. I myself would like to see a foal of my own, with my name, but can't justify placing my girls at risk to see it happen.

:

Edited to add : Do you think a so called " pet quality" owner that was to breed and get only a few foals , say two or three , make them a breeder? I consider breeders to be someone that does this year to year and mostly for a so called "profit".

 

[Tabitha]

just that someone that is happy with the way their horses look and want to try breeding a few of thier own they should be able to without getting attacked for it.

I would quite agree. But, I would also add that if someone, anyone, is so happy with the way their horses look and want to try breeding (or showing) those horses, then they would be happier if they just went and did it without first asking "do you think this horse is good enough". I've been asked in person if I think a certain horse is worth breeding, then I do some split second decided, does this person really value my opinion and want my judgment, or does he/she simply want approval. If I figure the person just wants approval, I just turn around and ask a few questions of my own--what stallion are you thinking of breeding her to? Or "how many mares do you have" A few questions like that & then I'm long gone before the person realizes I never actually answered. If they want to breed their horses, go for it, just don't seek my approval first! :lol:
I frequently see dog breeders advertise two price levels: pet quality pups and show/breeding quality pups. I've always assumed that in most cases the pet quality pups are required to be spayed/neutered and therefore the new owners never expect to use them for breeding. With Minis, so many pets are bought entire and then the buyer starts thinking how cute it would be to raise a foal or two or three, and that makes it quite different from in the dog world. Oh, I've used that dreaded pet quality term :new_shocked: . Sorry.

Almost ANY horse, ESPECIALLY miniature horses, can be a (great)pet; properly handled and treated. What should be remembered is that IF you want even a "PET" to be able to do more than just stand around and look cute, they need to have a certain level of correct conformational components--and since horses that ARE conformationally correct can be as 'cute' as any, AND stand a better chance of being able to 'do' the kind of things humans want to 'do' with them, then why not try one's best to produce the correct ones?

This says it quite well for me. My horses are all pets, but they are also show and using horses--they're pretty and correct and if I want them to be something more than mere pets, they can be that for me. In my books that makes them something more than pet quality, because to me "pet quality" means the horse really isn't well suited to anything but being a pet. Sure, he may drive but he doesn't shine in harness, and he hasn't the conformation to win at halter. I'm thinking I really don't have a problem with the term "pet quality". And to me, 'show quality' isn't just about the halter horses, it's also about the driving horses, whether they are showring driving type or CDE type. I have a filly here now that I consider show type--I'm not sure she will do halter (IMO her croup needs to be just a bit more level if she were going to be a good halter horse), but when it comes to driving she shines, and belongs in the ring. She is not merely "pet quality".

No one can legitimately claim their foals are show quality until that baby steps in the ring and has been judged to meet the standard of perfection closely enough to consistantly win against others in their league. I would love to see even see once a breeder advertise only that the foal may have the potential to do well but to claim it is from the start is a falacy.

I disagree with this. I agree that saying "this horse will win National Championships for you" is really a guarantee of sorts and I really don't think any seller can honestly guarantee any such thing--in this respect I do agree with Triggy that the ad should state "this horse has the potential to win National championships for you". As to the part about no one being able to claim that their foals are show quality--yes, I do believe that a knowledgeable breeder should have the ability to judge his foals & decide which are show quality and which are not. This is assuming that the breeder knows his shows and the different levels of competition. I've had breeders point out each foal and tell me if each foal will or won't make a show horse. They've told me that this one has the quality to go to Nationals, while that one over there would show locally, but there would be no point in hauling it to Nationals, while the one further over won't show in halter at all but it's going to make a heck of a driving horse. And this one right here needs to go to a family with kids, because it's just the perfect family horse and might do 4-H, but it really isn't a show horse as such. A knowledgeable breeder that isn't barn blind will have some idea of how their foals will fit in with what is out in the ring winning.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I breed show quality Miniatures- I cannot see the point of breeding anything else.

I am quite happy for any and all of my animals to go as pets- in fact I am VERY happy for them to go as pets and will even adjust the price accordingly for a gelding contract - but NOT on a filly as I will find out, as I have done to my cost - that this "bought as a pet" animal is being shown and bred form in a couple of years time!!

Why would you breed mediocre animals- I am not talking about faults here, or unsoundnesses I am talking about mediocre- when you can breed potential top quality??

My dogs never had any differentiations on them, they were all show quality sold as pets with no breeding rights, end of story.

If we were able to make this differentiation on Mini papers "pet quality" would die out overnight.

If you cannot afford to buy "breeding quality" YOU DO NOT BREED.

You wait until you can afford to buy the best as many of us have done.

You do not come on here and tell us we are "lucky" or "rich" or even "favoured" because we have had the foresight to work hard and get the best- sometimes at HUGE personal loss, I might add!!

My horses eat before I do- I do not have any hidden wealth (I wish!!) and I am not "lucky".

I work hard fro what I have and I have different priorities to some, I know but, basically if you cannot afford it you do not do it.

You do not denigrate those who do and say it is alright for those that can afford it but I can't.

If you can't afford something that is it as far as I can see!!

I have NO idea why people keep saying that Pets are "not show quality" I am not sure if you are deliberatly misunderstanding or just really do not understand.

There is NO way a World Champion is going to be bred from two backyard pets UNLESS the "Pets" are World Champion QUALITY themselves.

There is no harm whatsoever in breeding good sound show quality animals as pets.

If people were really dedicated to breeding pets this is what they would do, as I did with my Shelties.

They would not buy second rate animals and then try to justify why they were not breeding top quality animals!!

 

[susanne]

Why is it with breeding, the emphasis so often is ME, ME, ME. I have MY rights...I want a cute little foal...I want my children to experience the miracle of birth (oh, gag me!) ME, ME, ME.

I'm sorry, but it's not about you.

I believe in the the definition of a horseman or horsewoman as someone who considers the good of the horse FIRST.

Is it really in the best interest of the horse to risk losing your beloved pet or its foal to a dystocia JUST so you can witness this miracle or have a cute little foal?

Is it in the best interest of the horse to breed for yet another foal when so many horses are in need of a home?

Is it in the best interest of the horse to breed without consideration of conformation (even the basics that determine its health) when many loving, sound horses are already available at reasonable prices?

Do you need to be a big time breeder or show at the national level to be a responsible breeder? Certainly not.

Do you need to recognize and respect the enormous responsibility you are undertaking when you breed? ABSOLUTELY!

By breeding, you are creating a living being, not a toy, that depends upon you to make wise choices. (This is where the "ME" is a good thing) You are responsible for that life now and for the next 25-30 years...even if you sell it or give it away, it's still your responsibility. If you don't believe that, I hope you have some good karma stored up!

Because it's not about you and your pleasure. It's about them.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

Well bottom line no one will change anyones mind on this thread.

I see many people saying I breed show quality I will only breed show quality but... then the question comes what is show quality.

Lets be honest a show horse is only as good as his competition on any given day. So that means that show quality will vary from area to area, state to state and country to country.

What wins in one may not have a chance at all in another.

What one sees as a show quality herd others may easily be able to find many conformational faults in- we are all barn blind at one point or another, we all forgive different faults then others and we all like different "styles"

What I choose in my program may be very different then what others choose does that make me wrong and them right or vice versa?

Or does it make them or myself right in my own mind? I don't feel the need to come on here or anywhere for that matter and repeat that all my horses are show quality. Truth be told.. a nice horse speaks for itself period I should not need to tell people how wonderful my horses are or how beautiful my foals are and point out there good qualities.. if they are good people will see it period. and here is another truth all my horses are NOT "gasp" show quality (what I consider to be show quality.)

I am not a breeder who feels it is a failure to admit and see the truth. In fact i AM one who feels it a failure as a breeder to NOT see the truth.

I have 3 broodmares who in there best of days would have not placed in the halter ring and really not in the driving ring either. However there offspring has done well in ADS shows at CDE's and done ok at breed shows. National Champions nope but held there own .

Heck truth be told Foxy and raven would come out of classes and I would wonder how on earth he placed at Nationals.. was he the best horse no way -where there others with what I felt were less faults - yep- who met the breed standard better- Yep

What stood him apart was that he was a average little gelding who lived to make his child happy he ALWAYS gave her 120 percent - he walked into that halter ring and the 2 of them believed he had every right to be there and was just as good as anyone else in there and they showed like it .In her eyes Foxy was better then any other horse on the show grounds.

That was what did it period. He knew his job, loved his job loved his kid and gave it his all. So standing here in my pasture would people think that was a multi top ten halter gelding heck I didnt think it why would others

Do I think we should all breed all the time - No I realize there is heartbreak, horrible things happen that can give you nightmares for years - thousands of dollars down the drain to save a mare after a bad dystocia only to lose her anyway but you have to give her a chance- way to many horses in the world, that "joy" of birth is overshadowed by loss of sleep for days, weeks on end, worry and heartache

and sometimes that joy is what it should be luck of the draw most times.

I might look and say I choose not to breed that horse heck some of those I may choose not to breed could be champions, great show records, great blood lines.. but others may have a totally different opinion and most who have replied here that they would not breed inferior horses I assure you there is someone out there somewhere who feels you already are

:

I am not saying that to be mean or judgmental just to show that bottom line .You can shout from the roof tops and post every darn day on every forum there is that my horses are top of the line I have gold I have gold my program is golden -yet others can say OMG that is gold NO WAY

. what is gold to some is trash to others and vice versa and nothing will ever change that fact.

 

[mad for mini's]

Lisa :aktion033: :aktion033: Very nicely put . Thank you. I usually don't answer to posts like this and wish now that I had waited a bit longer to speak up, you seem to have a nack for writing things so that they come out the right way !