Just some of my own thoughts and feelings

[Triggy&Blue&Daisy Too]

I...

Edited to add : Do you think a so called " pet quality" owner that was to breed and get only a few foals , say two or three , make them a breeder? I consider breeders to be someone that does this year to year and mostly for a so called "profit".

I consider anyone who has has deliberately mated two animals to produce offspring to be a breeder whether it's one or a dozen and whether you keep them or not. Perhaps not a commercial one, but a breeder nonetheless.

If people did a true cost analysis of their breeding operations and figured it out to the minutia, profit is all about luck when it comes to breeding any animal. If you don't have any veterinary issues, if feed prices remain low or at least stable, if foals move rapidly, if your property is paid for and if you don't include your time even at minimum wage, etc., etc., you may break even some years if you are truly producing top animals. I have yet to see even the most serious breeder make their entire living, support their families and be able to save for the future doing so. I'd love to meet one though and think they should be forced to share their knowlege with the rest of us, lol.

I agree with Tabitha that a knowlegeable breeder should be able to pick the ones who have potential but even the most well-bred, correct horse does not a show, let alone breeding quality, horse always make. It's all in the cards so tis' speak. Since too many minis end up being thrown together to produce at the hands of the less than knowlegable, it only makes sense for any breeder to start with the best of the best if being a responsible breeder is really your true intent. Excuses be danged for anything less. As Susanne and others have said it's a huge and far reaching responsibilty. The breeding of any animal should never be be undertaken lightly.

 

[Danielle_E.]

I have read all the latest post and I find it absolutely ironic that some individuals are saying they breed "show quality" and have gone on and on about what ever they mean by "pet quality" and when I look at their animals, well I don't agree with what they say are "show quality". I am not seeing what they are they say they are breeding and I have seen better in some where someone has put a "please critique" and certain people who in their mind think they are breeding show quality give a constructive but negative critique when what they are breeding is no better. It absolutely floors me. Perhaps they like to listen to themselves talk. Putting my flame suit on now.

 

[Buckskin gal]

Danielle, I really like to make experiences, something to learn from and this thread is just that,for me. I would really like to learn what you feel is show and pet quality and since you took the time to look at peoples horses and see them as non show quality will you share with us what you saw in them as being non show quality? If people are barn blind then lets bring out the faults and talk about them so learning takes place. Thanks, Mary

I have read all the latest post and I find it absolutely ironic that some individuals are saying they breed "show quality" and have gone on and on about what ever they mean by "pet quality" and when I look at their animals, well I don't agree with what they say are "show quality". I am not seeing what they are they say they are breeding and I have seen better in some where someone has put a "please critique" and certain people who in their mind think they are breeding show quality give a constructive but negative critique when what they are breeding is no better. It absolutely floors me. Perhaps they like to listen to themselves talk. Putting my flame suit on now.

 

[Danielle_E.]

I am not going to name any names because as I said these are my personal opinions and this is something I have thought of before this thread ever started and have mentioned to some "members" here in the past so they certainly could vouch that it's not just because this thread showed up now. In the past someone (and no it's not me, never put one of my horse's up for critique) has placed their animal and asked for a critique. I always read the comments and based on what is said by that individual I usually go and see their website to see if they truly know what they are talking about. In many instances I may totally agree with them, the critique may be bang on, but then in another thread when the "show quality" issue comes up and I see them post that they breed "show quality" I shake my head because they seem to have a double standard going when in fact the horse they critiqued and did critique correctly are, in my opinion, basically the same as their stock , some of the same faults, and yet they consider their minis to be "show quality and breeding quality" or so they keep stating in various threads and yet they tell these others that their mini is not show quality nor should it ever be bred

: I don't get it. Now I have to say it certainly is not the majority but it happens and they are the ones that are usually the "loudest" in posts pertaining to "show quality". Lord, I truly hate the two terms "pet quality" and "show quality" . It truly should be "pet" mni, "show mini" and "breed standard" and non-breed standard.

JMHO. I first believe that some people who are posting here think that show quality ONLY applies to "halter classes" or so it seems that this is what they are gearing all their comments on. First off, coming from a background of full size horses before I got into minis I may see thing much differently than someone who has never owned another breed besides minis. Disney mentioned that the same conformational faults don't happen in full size horses as often. I totally disagree with her and there are many full size horses that don't come close to the "breed standard" for their breed BUT they aren't the deformed and can't do anything animals that some keep saying that "pet quality" minis are. If you are speaking specifically about dwarf minis then I agree, because of their physical limitations, otherwise I belive it is not an accurate statement. Just because a mini many not have the long giraffe neck and table top back (gee where have I seen this thinking, oh yes in arabians) that they aren't "show quality". The identical thing is happening in the arabian world. I hear the same in that "show world" but there is so much more than "halter" and if the miniature horse breeders don't stop focusing solely on this they are going to find a major downturn in the market for their product, I belive it's already happened and we are there now. Because minis aren't "riding" horses, you need to expand your market not only to halter show animals. Not enough credit is given to this wonderful breed and to expand the market. There has to be more of a market that for "halter" horses. I truly believe that breeders need to start focusing on "other" important qualities that will help the breed grow. You certainly don't necessarily need a $5,000 or $10,000+ mini to compete in driving and at the upper levels. How many breeders focus on breeding the athletic minis? Of course you want conformationally correct, but what makes a good halter candidate is not always what you want in a driving championship, you need alot more. That is why I put more emphasis on those titles. The bottom line to me is the animal (breeding animal) has to reproduce itself or better, if not it should not be bred. A championship titled horse that can't breed better than himself/herself is not worth anything to me except being "pretty" Oh they may look phenominal themselves but as one of my dear friend's in the arabian world keeps saying "the proof is in the pudding" Show me an awesome looking mini foal and my first reaction will probably be who is the sire and dam, comes from being in arabs I guess, or my other question would be "what other offspring to they have" and studying them and seeing if it was just a fluke or only a 25% thing or..... I just think some are limiting their marketing strategy and breeding for only one thing, I horse that looks nice in halter and then what? Now the mini that is conformationally correct, wins in halter, wins in driving, wins in jumping. now to me that is an exceptional mini and I don't believe their are many of them around, or perhaps someone can tell me of one?

 

[Dona]

Lisa & Danielle....... :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033:

You've both summed it up pretty much for me!

:

 

[Buckskin gal]

I do understand your position to a certain extent. I think what you are saying is too many people are breeding for what they call "halter quality"??? And maybe that halter quality isn't making a good all around horse? Giving thought to that I really think that if people are breeding by the standard they will have a good all around mini which is capable of being halter shown, drove, can do performance and also gimake a wonderful family pet. I think some others have been saying this, also. A popint that was being made was that oo many people were breeding for "just pets" and that is not for the best of the breed. Whether we show or don't show isn't really important in this matter...what is important, at least to me, is that when breedings are planned they should be planned carefully with the best interest of the horse in mind and if they can be more than "pets" that is good....and if they can be more than "halter" horses that too is good. Neither one or the other has to be bred for, specifically. I think there are breeders who produce minis which are capable of both. Anyway, I do think discussions such as this help people who have open minds to think beyond what is just for the day. Mary

I am not going to name any names because as I said these are my personal opinions and this is something I have thought of before this thread ever started and have mentioned to some "members" here in the past so they certainly could vouch that it's not just because this thread showed up now. In the past someone (and no it's not me, never put one of my horse's up for critique) has placed their animal and asked for a critique. I always read the comments and based on what is said by that individual I usually go and see their website to see if they truly know what they are talking about. In many instances I may totally agree with them, the critique may be bang on, but then in another thread when the "show quality" issue comes up and I see them post that they breed "show quality" I shake my head because they seem to have a double standard going when in fact the horse they critiqued and did critique correctly are, in my opinion, basically the same as their stock , some of the same faults, and yet they consider their minis to be "show quality and breeding quality" or so they keep stating in various threads and yet they tell these others that their mini is not show quality nor should it ever be bred

: I don't get it. Now I have to say it certainly is not the majority but it happens and they are the ones that are usually the "loudest" in posts pertaining to "show quality". Lord, I truly hate the two terms "pet quality" and "show quality" . It truly should be "pet" mni, "show mini" and "breed standard" and non-breed standard.

JMHO. I first believe that some people who are posting here think that show quality ONLY applies to "halter classes" or so it seems that this is what they are gearing all their comments on. First off, coming from a background of full size horses before I got into minis I may see thing much differently than someone who has never owned another breed besides minis. Disney mentioned that the same conformational faults don't happen in full size horses as often. I totally disagree with her and there are many full size horses that don't come close to the "breed standard" for their breed BUT they aren't the deformed and can't do anything animals that some keep saying that "pet quality" minis are. If you are speaking specifically about dwarf minis then I agree, because of their physical limitations, otherwise I belive it is not an accurate statement. Just because a mini many not have the long giraffe neck and table top back (gee where have I seen this thinking, oh yes in arabians) that they aren't "show quality". The identical thing is happening in the arabian world. I hear the same in that "show world" but there is so much more than "halter" and if the miniature horse breeders don't stop focusing solely on this they are going to find a major downturn in the market for their product, I belive it's already happened and we are there now. Because minis aren't "riding" horses, you need to expand your market not only to halter show animals. Not enough credit is given to this wonderful breed and to expand the market. There has to be more of a market that for "halter" horses. I truly believe that breeders need to start focusing on "other" important qualities that will help the breed grow. You certainly don't necessarily need a $5,000 or $10,000+ mini to compete in driving and at the upper levels. How many breeders focus on breeding the athletic minis? Of course you want conformationally correct, but what makes a good halter candidate is not always what you want in a driving championship, you need alot more. That is why I put more emphasis on those titles. The bottom line to me is the animal (breeding animal) has to reproduce itself or better, if not it should not be bred. A championship titled horse that can't breed better than himself/herself is not worth anything to me except being "pretty" Oh they may look phenominal themselves but as one of my dear friend's in the arabian world keeps saying "the proof is in the pudding" Show me an awesome looking mini foal and my first reaction will probably be who is the sire and dam, comes from being in arabs I guess, or my other question would be "what other offspring to they have" and studying them and seeing if it was just a fluke or only a 25% thing or..... I just think some are limiting their marketing strategy and breeding for only one thing, I horse that looks nice in halter and then what? Now the mini that is conformationally correct, wins in halter, wins in driving, wins in jumping. now to me that is an exceptional mini and I don't believe their are many of them around, or perhaps someone can tell me of one?

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I judge and have always judged my "halter" horses as if they were full size, potential riding horses.

Do they match up??

Conformationally, Yes, but, as we did on another Forum, for fun, when blown up to full size and (digitally) had a person put on board, ALL the faults showed up, big time.

The head was too big for the body, in all cases (and we were using World Champions as well as our own) and there were many other minor points that became obvious.

NO horse is perfect- it cannot be done,

We can only strive for the best, and continue to strive, as we will NEVER attain perfection.

What annoys me a bit about so called "Pet Breeders" is this ongoing assumption that the one precludes the other.

I reiterate.

I breed Show Quality animals and I am, DELIGHTED if they are bought as pets.

Are they all "show quality"??

No, in my eyes some fall short, but I am hypercritical of my stock, and I am not "Barn Blind" either.

What I do not do, nor have I ever, is specifically breed a second rate animal- sound and well conformed but second rate, and then attempt to justify it by saying I am breeding "Pets"

This si the thing that I believe annoys quite a few people who, like me, have bought the best they could afford and bred them to the best they could afford, sacrificing quantity for quality every time.

Even with the Arabs I did not get top quality every time, even using Pure Crabbet lines top quality was not guaranteed.

What I did not get, and what I do not get with the Minis I breed is animals with cow hocks, big ugly heads and other conformational faults, because my base stock was sound.

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with targeting the "Pet" market and breeding good, sound, showable, animals that are then raised to be quiet gentle pets.

There is no reason why the stock that goes in the ring and wins Halter/Obstacle/Jumping and Driving cannot be equally at home in the Nursing Home and the back yard.

They do not have to be second rate to be well loved pets, in fact they should not be.

 

[Tony]

>>I have yet to see even the most serious breeder make their entire living, support their families and be able to save for the future doing so. I'd love to meet one though and think they should be forced to share their knowlege with the rest of us, lol.<<

For the past eleven years your description fits our operation. I have done miniatures for many years as a sideline, but in 1995 "retired" to do them full time. I laughingly, but realistically tell people that if we don't sell horse, we don't eat. Judging by my weight, I am eating quite well. Of course, I work at it 24/7. I would love to meet you and welcome you to come for a visit anytime. As far as being forced to "share their knowledge" I have always been totally open about sharing any help that I can offer and answer many emails every week from people that I have not met concerning many issues and plan to continue.

Susan (Horsehug) can certainly attest to these statements. Since she bought a filly from me several years ago, she has been a regular in my mailbox with questions, observations, and in fact, she asked me to respond to this "quote".

 

[FairytailGlennMinis]

Tony, how many horses do you have, how many did you start with and what kind of money did you put into your horses? Your set-up isn't something most people have and I see so many people that pick up $300-500 auction horses with MANY faults (and may or may not be registered) and think that they can get thousands for the babies and can make a living on it. Most people don't have Orion sons or other top stallions that are sought after. How long did it take you to be able to live off of the minis and how much do you usually invest in brood mares and stallions? That is another thing to take into consideration for people wanting to start up.

-Amy

 

[horsehug]

Tony,

Actually I had seen your ads and pictures in the magazines long before there was the internet

And I went up to you and talked to you at the 1998 AMHA Nationals in Reno, as I had always admired your program and horses, partly because I was always more attracted to the tiny ones, when I first heard of miniature horses about 25 years ago.

After being at Tony's place several years ago, I can tell you...... I love his herd! And he and his family show incredible hospitality. I always think of him when I think of someone who does make his living with them as well as absolutely loving them with his heart and soul! I think he is living his dream And I do think his wealth of information from living and breathing little horses most of his life, is second to none. So I do ask him when I have questions about breeding and foaling and bloodlines and dwarfism and lots of other things!

Again I want to say thanks to all of you for your posts. I truly believe there are many facets of raising and/ or owning miniature horses and each one of us has our own most favorite or favorites! There is room for us all. Some things we will never agree on, but that is what a forum is all about at times. And I just wanted to say some of the things that I have thought for a long time. So thanks to all of you for letting me voice my 2 cents.

And thanks Tony, for your vote of support also.

Susan O.

 

[Tony]

Tony, how many horses do you have, how many did you start with and what kind of money did you put into your horses? Your set-up isn't something most people have and I see so many people that pick up $300-500 auction horses with MANY faults (and may or may not be registered) and think that they can get thousands for the babies and can make a living on it. Most people don't have Orion sons or other top stallions that are sought after. How long did it take you to be able to live off of the minis and how much do you usually invest in brood mares and stallions? That is another thing to take into consideration for people wanting to start up.

-Amy

I started with one Shetland filly that my parents gave me when I was born in 1945 and I started breeding miniatures full time in 1995 after doing it as a part time avocation since the early 70s. I now have 235 head. I have paid as much as $20,000 and as little as $200 for the right horse. I have always told people who ask to buy the best that you can afford, and "best" is not always indicated by price. It takes many years to put together a breeding program and I am always upgrading mine. I worked for three years as a fast food restaurant manager to be able to buy Xenon, our first Orion son. I have also been fortunate to make some excellent trades on some outstanding horses. It has to be a long term plan, not a "get rich quick" technique. When we bought the place that we have now, we basically used everything that we had to pay for it and I said at the time that I wanted to get enough horses so that even if they had to sell for pet prices, we could still eat.

Luckily we haven't had to drop the prices that much, but try to have something for everyone's budget.

Ten years ago I posted a LOT here. These days not as much because of time constraints and a lack of appreciation for some of the responses that I get from time to time. I learn from reading, but also read much that is NOT correct in my opinion, but have no need to "fight" for my opinion, so choose to share it with those who ask.

 

[Danielle_E.]

I do understand your position to a certain extent. I think what you are saying is too many people are breeding for what they call "halter quality"??? And maybe that halter quality isn't making a good all around horse? Giving thought to that I really think that if people are breeding by the standard they will have a good all around mini which is capable of being halter shown, drove, can do performance and also gimake a wonderful family pet. I think some others have been saying this, also. A popint that was being made was that oo many people were breeding for "just pets" and that is not for the best of the breed. Whether we show or don't show isn't really important in this matter...what is important, at least to me, is that when breedings are planned they should be planned carefully with the best interest of the horse in mind and if they can be more than "pets" that is good....and if they can be more than "halter" horses that too is good. Neither one or the other has to be bred for, specifically. I think there are breeders who produce minis which are capable of both. Anyway, I do think discussions such as this help people who have open minds to think beyond what is just for the day. Mary

Thanks Mary for your reply. I also agree with what you are saying, lol, except I have to say I cringed when I read "they can be more than "pets" that is good. Can I ask why that thinking? What is the crime in someone having a great horse that they aren't interested in showing and/or breeding? For me I don't necessarily think that "pet" means not well conformed and not show quality. Now I don't think that is what you are saying but I do think that some here think this way. Why is there that thinking out there? that "pet" is always equal to poorly conformed or not show quality? That is what I don't understand. The rest of the argument I understand and yet I don't feel that I have a right to tell someone what they can and can't do with their minis unless they are abusing them, that's a different kettle of fish. I just don't feel it is my place to say to whoever who has minis what they can and can not do with them. Now having said that if this is someone who is breeding poor breeding horses and then can't sell them and dumps them at low end auctions and they end up in the meat pens, yes I get rather hot under the collar when I see minis in the meat pens. I would rather have someone breeding minis that perhaps are not show quality who either keeps them as a pet or sells them as pets than someone who has "show quality" but who breeds too many that they can handle and must make room for next year's babies and sells them at low end auctions. To me a responsible breeder is the person who, no matter how many they breed, could be a large breeder, could be a small breeder, hangs on to those babies until they find a suitable home for them. That to me is taking responsibility for what you are bringing into this world. Of course there are exceptions where someone has no choice, due to health or a major financial situation that was totally unforseen.

I know in full size horses you look for "different" things in a driving animal. Pretty is a bonus, correct is a must and motion and sane. But I am not necessarily looking for that long long neck or the table top back either. I am looking for a great rear end, propulsion and balance. I truly feel that some that would not excel in the halter ring could for sure win in the driving ring. It's basically the same thing going on in arabians. Many arabian that are shown in halter are not shown in riding or driving. To be honest some of them don't move very well except they "look pretty", beautiful head and neck but major leg faults. I sometimes worry that we are focusing, it seems to me, with the same in minis, dishy faces, long necks, etc. How many times have you seen in ads "arabian in miniature, dishy arabian head". There are certainly different "types" of minis. Because we are a height breed and some are bringing in shetland blood to "refine" the look and get perhaps more action, as minis are not allowed to have shoes... but I have to say I have seen some "stronger built" minis that are VERY nice as well. Perhaps, as a breed, there is more diversity in minis we are a height breed and not a "purebreed" per say.

This is just an after thought and perhaps people can discuss this as well. I know that many people in the past have voiced their opinion that a mini (mare or stallion) who produce a "dwarf" should be taken out of "breeding". I sometimes wonder if some of the ones we admire so much have indeed produced a dwarf but that it's basically kept "secret", meaning only the breeder knows. People still rave about this stallion or perhaps it's a mare but I wonder if they knew if they would have the same opinion of that stallion or that mare and if they owned that stallion or that mare, would they truly still feel the same way. Would they quickly remove the stallion or the mare from breeding because they had one "dwarf" in a myriad of other awesome foals.

 

[Hobbit Horse Shire]

"I also love taking mine to the nursing home in our home town when they ask us. We usually take a mare and a tiny foal so that we can lift the tiny foal up and even let the ones in bed pet it and have it right there on the bed They love that! This is one of the many reasons I personally love the tiny ones.

In our town parades, I also drive my stallion and sometimes take a few foals and moms along walking each year, and that too is a first time to see minis for lots of folks! They are so well liked they usually win one of the prizes for entries in the parade.

I believe that in the "overall big picture", the vast majority of mini owners do not show --------

I sometimes feel like there might be out there a huge silent majority who needs to have a voice."

Hi Susan ..

Thank you so much for putting into words the very thing my husband & I feel about our minis & the reason we got them .. We are the kind of people who believe in giving back to the world & since we are animal lovers what a better way .. We currently have 2 minis with the hopes of adding just a few more .. Aside from loving them as personal pets we intend to share them with others who would never dare get close to a big horse .. Having personally been on the "receiving" end of a horses kick (broke my leg in 3 places below the knee) I can fully understand people being afraid of a big horse

We are not "horse" people .. We've never owned one but have riden them in the past so our knowledge is basically non-existant .. I'm looking for very basic beginning information on how to get started with pet therapy .. I do realize the temperment of the horse is very important and that hands on as little ones plays a big part in that but other then that I'm not sure what to do with the girls

If you or anyone you know of can help with directing me to this kind of information it would be greatly appreciated!!!

Carol & John Pilot

 

[Georgine]

Very well written Susan.

We have recently ventured in to some showing and it kind of seems to be like what we see in figure skating as far as the judging goes. (we have owned miniature horses since 1991)

More often than not in my experience (which is limited) it does not appear to be the case, that the best horse is winning the First Place Ribbon

In one specific case the horse that won Supreme Halter Horse was also a horse that the judge of the class had sold to the lady.

I know that as long as he didn't own the horse in the last 3 months he could judge it, but there were better horses in the ring.

I am not a judge and I am not an expert, but the showing part of the mini horse business is my least favorite part of being an owner.

Maybe I haven't been to enough shows because the few I have attended, both viewing or showing, have left a bad taste in my mouth.

 

[jbrat]

Very well written Susan.

We have recently ventured in to some showing and it kind of seems to be like what we see in figure skating as far as the judging goes. (we have owned miniature horses since 1991)

More often than not in my experience (which is limited) it does not appear to be the case, that the best horse is winning the First Place Ribbon

In one specific case the horse that won Supreme Halter Horse was also a horse that the judge of the class had sold to the lady.

I know that as long as he didn't own the horse in the last 3 months he could judge it, but there were better horses in the ring.

I am not a judge and I am not an expert, but the showing part of the mini horse business is my least favorite part of being an owner.

Maybe I haven't been to enough shows because the few I have attended, both viewing or showing, have left a bad taste in my mouth.

Unfortunately, I have seen that alot too, it does take the fun out of it in a way, but its fun to get out and socialize with your family & horses.

Recentally, I saw a show where the judge gave champion halter to a horse she had placed 2nd. he got champ. over the horse that beat him orginally. The Horse did deserve it! but he deserved the 1st place originally too. As I think back to when I showed I can think of many examples - like seeing the the judges hanging out with all the people who place 1st. (before the day of the show and after)

I haven't shown in years but now getting back into it alittle with my kids and 4-H. It's the all in the opinion fair or not! I think it can be that way no matter what your showing, dogs, cows, pigs, etc.

I don't think that will ever change.

We'll just have to remember to take lots of gum or mouthwash,lol.

:

Thanks for the great thread Susan - Its all about caring for and loving all of God's creatures! With all the poor unwanted, suffering animals out there we have to do what we can to help- sure wish I could save them all!

 

[PaintNminis]

First Off that was akit of READING :new_shocked:

But it was Very Eye opening

:

and it was Very well written Susan.

 

[Suzie]

"I also love taking mine to the nursing home in our home town when they ask us. We usually take a mare and a tiny foal so that we can lift the tiny foal up and even let the ones in bed pet it and have it right there on the bed They love that! This is one of the many reasons I personally love the tiny ones.
In our town parades, I also drive my stallion and sometimes take a few foals and moms along walking each year, and that too is a first time to see minis for lots of folks! They are so well liked they usually win one of the prizes for entries in the parade.

I believe that in the "overall big picture", the vast majority of mini owners do not show --------

I sometimes feel like there might be out there a huge silent majority who needs to have a voice."

Hi Susan ..

Thank you so much for putting into words the very thing my husband & I feel about our minis & the reason we got them .. We are the kind of people who believe in giving back to the world & since we are animal lovers what a better way .. We currently have 2 minis with the hopes of adding just a few more .. Aside from loving them as personal pets we intend to share them with others who would never dare get close to a big horse .. Having personally been on the "receiving" end of a horses kick (broke my leg in 3 places below the knee) I can fully understand people being afraid of a big horse

We are not "horse" people .. We've never owned one but have riden them in the past so our knowledge is basically non-existant .. I'm looking for very basic beginning information on how to get started with pet therapy .. I do realize the temperment of the horse is very important and that hands on as little ones plays a big part in that but other then that I'm not sure what to do with the girls

If you or anyone you know of can help with directing me to this kind of information it would be greatly appreciated!!!

Carol & John Pilot

If I remember correctly, some time back there was a thread on getting a therapy horse "certified" and a link with some great information on how to do that. Carol and John, you might try a search on therapy certification on this Forum and see what comes up. I thought I had "flagged" this for myself (as I would love to do that also with a couple of my little minis) but can't find it now. Perhaps someone else remembers the therapy horse link to help you out.

 

[love_casper]

:new_rofl: remember the whole "How many forum members does it take to turn in a light bulb" theory! I have to laugh as one of the things i remember was ...then someone will come along and bump up the thread six months later....rofl this is six months old!!!

anyways, this was definitely one of my all time favorite threads.

: I'm going to copy the url and save it for future reference.

 

[SWA]

The Delta Society at http://www.deltasociety.org Hope this helps.

:

If you or anyone you know of can help with directing me to this kind of information it would be greatly appreciated!!!Carol & John Pilot

If I remember correctly, some time back there was a thread on getting a therapy horse "certified" and a link with some great information on how to do that. Carol and John, you might try a search on therapy certification on this Forum and see what comes up. I thought I had "flagged" this for myself (as I would love to do that also with a couple of my little minis) but can't find it now. Perhaps someone else remembers the therapy horse link to help you out.

 

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Great post Susan.

Just my opinion that there are so many folks out there breeding minis BEFORE they get educated on what exactly is good conformation. I do support the mentor idea whole heartedly, but so many people just don't ever find a mentor or really care to learn. THAT in my opionion is the problem. They buy a mare and a stallion and just breed it. I don't think that we will ever be able to eliminate this entirely.

I do think that there are probably many horses out there that have never stepped foot in a show ring but they are certainly the quality of horse that it takes to make good breeding stock. I am sure that there are several educated breeders out there that don't want to have the hassle of showing. But remember, there are also people out there breeding dwarfs to dwarfs and horses with very poor conformation and bad bites to each other. I do believe that this is what is going wrong. These people have not bothered to educate themselves on what qualities to look for in good breeding stock and then to match up the stallion with the mare for what we would hope would be a very nice quality foal.

I look at it like this: If you take on the responsiblity of breeding horses or dogs or whatever, should you not try and learn about them first. I am sure a big CEO of a company did not just walk in and start that job successfully without being educated and gaining experience.

A seasoned breeder won't double up on faults in horses. They learn to cross two horses that compliment each other. I have decided that there is no horse that does not have at least one small fault. There are so many people out there that don't recognize faults at all. When I speak of faults, I am talking conformation and temperment. Now it does not mean that the horses that are here on earth now should not be loved by their owners and yes they all have a special purpose. I have never felt closer to heaven than when I spend lots of time with my horses. It is the best therapy in the world.

I do however believe that it should be the responsiblity of ANY person that intends on breeding any type of animal to educate themselves and to continue to educate themselve 20 years after they start doing it. The goal should be to contribute to the betterment of the breed and not just breed them to see a birth, that we all know so well can end in catastrophically.

The PEOPLE that refuse to do this are the problem and they are the ones putting the little horses here that can only be used as pets or that no one experienced would want in their breeding program.

My advice to what I call the new "Miniature Horse Enthusiast". EDUCATE YOURSELF. MAKE IT A POINT TO DO SO. GO TO SHOWS - BIG SHOWS. LOOK AT THOSE ELEGANT ANIMALS AND LOOK AT WHAT KIND OF A HORSE IT TAKES TO MAKE A GOOD BREEDING ANIMAL. Then go home AND DON'T BE BARN BLIND look at your horses. Are these like the ones that you saw at the show - even remotely??????

READ AND READ AND READ THE STANDARD OF PERFECTION. If you have questions, DONT BE AFRAID TO ASK. THERE ARE NO STUPID QUESTIONS!!!!!!! GET THE MINIATURE HORSE WORLD AND LOOK LOOK LOOK. I know these horses are cleaned up and made up for the photos but don't look for that, look at the conformation and balance of these horses and then go out to the barn and look again. If you just can't figure it out, then ask someone, but when you do, PLEASE OPEN YOUR HEART TO THE TRUTH. If it makes you feel better, then ask another person and then another. Please ask those that are seasoned and successful breeders though. You can NEVER OVER EDUCATE YOURSELF WHEN IT COMES TO THESE LITTLE HORSES. The real problem lies with NO EDUCATION AT ALL.

I know this may make some folks mad, but it was never intended to. Not all people will think about this but if just ONE person does, then it will all be worth it. Like so many have said, I am not good at putting words in writing but I think you can understand what I am trying to say.

I also want to add, love ALL horses. They are precious gifts to us and bring us hours of enjoyment and they seem to be very capable of unconditional love. JUST EDUCATE YOURSELF ON THE BREEDING ASPECT!!!