Just wondering

[sfmini]

You can't really compare the minis to a lot of the other registries, don't forget that the larger registries are also getting income through the kind of volume that the smaller registries don't have.

The magazine for AMHA is the newsletter for the members, by including the magazine in the membership, the information is at least being delivered to all members. While the E newsletters are great, there are many people out there who won't touch a computer. If you try to aim delivery of information to just that small group, then you have printing and postage and handling expenses to cover.

If you were to go to a totally electronic magazine, you would have to put security on access to it so only members can look and one of the main reasons for getting the magazines online is for marketing the horses to the public. Then, what do you do about the non computing members? The physical magazine would be outrageously expensive to print and mail in smaller volume.

The fees that show people pay per horse go to support the show department. If that fee wasn't there, then ALL members would have to shoulder the expense through higher membership fees, thus penalizing the non showing members (and there are a lot of them).

No matter how you spin it, there is a cost to run the associations and they are not philanthropic, nor are they for profit, but they do have to be self sustaining in order to exist.

 

[Candi]

Everyone has their own "slang" though heck in some parts people refer to filly colts and stud colts

LOL - I hate hate hate this... Makes a person sound ignorant.. like saying OUT OF a stallion (instead of by) and TRI-COLORED Paint/Pinto (instead of bay/white).

 

[Candi]

Candi--I don't quite get the point in making comparisons between ASPC/AMHR fees and the fees charged by the stock breed associations. This isn't any of the stock breeds, it is ASPC/AMHR! Perhaps you should count yourself lucky that you got by with such low fees in those other breeds, and be glad that ASPC/AMHR isn't as costly as some different breeds are.

Morgans for instance. The Canadian Morgan Horse Assoc. makes ASPC/AMHR look very reasonable!

CMHA membership: $55 plus $10 magazine surcharge (covers mailing expenses)

Foal registration: $49.50 For non-members that is $165 (DNA of course is extra, $91 I believe)

Yearling registration $110, non-members would pay $286. Again, DNA would be extra.

If we Canadians buy a US Morgan, once the US papers get transfered into our name, we then have to pay a Canadian registration fee of $71.50 (more if we don't do it within 12 months of import)

Transfers are $55 within 6 months of sale, $110 if done after 6 months.

Those fees make ASPC/AMHR look pretty reasonable!

When it comes to showing.....

To show at an EC sanctioned Morgan show, we have to pay $160 in EC memberships...that covers a membership and sport license, and I think the provincial levy as well. That is in addition to the above $55 CMHA membership. I was just the other day looking at a show book from the 2010 show in another province....Stall fees were $70, plus there was an office/medic fee of $20 per horse plus there is a $7 drug test fee. I don't even remember now what the entry fee was....because by that point I knew that I could not possibly afford to show at such a show & I quit adding up expenses for it! I would have had to pay $160 for my EC membership and $97 per horse before I even got around to entering a single class.

In comparison, at the two ASPC/AMHR shows I entered this past summer, I showed 5 horses at the first one (one judge/triple points) and paid a grand total of $140; at the 2nd show I entered 6 horses (4 judges) and paid a total of $220. Because I do want to collect All Star and HOF points for my horses, I do have my ASPC/AMHR membership. If I didn't want to bother with those award systems, I could show my horses without buying any membership at all (unless I were entering Nationals or Congress)

I don't figure that I have anything at all to complain about when it comes to ASPC/AMHR fees--in spite of the fact that I pay $76 US for my membership instead of the $65 that you pay--and if I did have complaints and figured that my other breed (Morgans) was so superior, well, I would likely have chosen to stay with that breed.

You have to compare Apples to Apples - in this case breed associations w/breed associations. And, I NEVER said my "breed" LOL you'd have to pick one - was superior to AMHR/ASPC. Do I think that other registries offer more "bang for the buck?" You're darned right.

Now comparing Canadian registrations to US is Apples to Oranges. Then - I'd have to compare Canadian Appy and QH too. Whole nother beast then. Thus, why I was JUST comparting US-based associations to AMHR, and specifically associations that we're members of...

 

[Sandee]

I see that - but for example - I showed at the largest APHA show on the west coast last year. With our SPB filly - it was a SIX-JUDGE show - and I paid $24/class. $5/administrative fee. Showing ApHC regular classes - paid $28 for a Quad-Judge class. AQHA- well they're a whole'nother story (sigh VERY spendy).

They all have lower membership fees- and more "freebies" to members' perks. And, their classes were WAY cheaper per judge than any AMHR/ASPC show in the INW. Something to ponder. Higher membership fees- does not translate to lower show costs.

I see where you are coming from but I think you need to see others perspective. Those great fees you have for ApHC are, as you said not comparable to AQ nor to PtHA, at least in this area. The Pinto show here goes like this: (last year)

WPtHA fee is $30 per day per horse per judge for all day or $7 a day per horse per judge (must be multiplied by 3 or 4) = $90 or $120 for all day or $21 or $28 per class

PtHA fee $6.50 per horse per judge (again x3 or 4) = $19.50 or $26

PtHA class fee $1 per horse

Stall fee $35

Grounds fee (or jump out) $15

So to show 1 horse for 1 class ( now remember here they only have 1 to 3 classes for minis so the all day fee doesn't make sense) 21+19.50 +1 = $41.50 or $55 (depending on judges) I can show at an IA. or MN. AMHR show for 1 horse last year $65 for ANY number of classes ( my mare has competed in 5 to 6 classes in a day) with 2 to 3 judges over two days time and the stall fees were about the same as Pinto.

I'll go AMHR around here any time!

Edited to add - just checked and Pinto Wis. has added driving classes and since I have not attended lately I do not know if they have any participants.

 

[Candi]

I see where you are coming from but I think you need to see others perspective. Those great fees you have for ApHC are, as you said not comparable to AQ nor to PtHA, at least in this area. The Pinto show here goes like this: (last year)

WPtHA fee is $30 per day per horse per judge for all day or $7 a day per horse per judge (must be multiplied by 3 or 4) = $90 or $120 for all day or $21 or $28 per class

PtHA fee $6.50 per horse per judge (again x3 or 4) = $19.50 or $26

PtHA class fee $1 per horse

Stall fee $35

Grounds fee (or jump out) $15

So to show 1 horse for 1 class ( now remember here they only have 1 to 3 classes for minis so the all day fee doesn't make sense) 21+19.50 +1 = $41.50 or $55 (depending on judges) I can show at an IA. or MN. AMHR show for 1 horse last year $65 for ANY number of classes ( my mare has competed in 5 to 6 classes in a day) with 2 to 3 judges over two days time and the stall fees were about the same as Pinto.

I'll go AMHR around here any time!

There has been "rumblings" in the PtHA world about move universal fees. I think because, as pointed out here, it's WAY cheaper to show PtHA on the west coast. Would be nice to see that change in your area

 

[Minimor]

Apples to oranges? Not really! Both CMHA and ASPC are associations that I, a Canadian resident, am a member of. In Canada we need to belong to/register with CMHA only, we do not have to be a member of or register our horses with the American Morgan Horse Assoc. The one is what we pay to show/register Morgans in Canada, the other is what we pay to show/register ponies & Minis in Canada!

In truth, AMHA (Morgan) fees are little better than CMHA.... $90 for foal registrations (includes DNA--so that is a little more affordable than CMHA, still more costly than ASPC, even if ASPC were to require DNA....ASPC fee for registration plus DNA would be more like $60 I think?) Transfers $30 (double the ASPC fee of $15) ...offhand I don't know what show fees are for US Morgan shows--I do know that when it comes to the National level shows, AMHA (as in Morgan) World Championships are waaaay more expensive to show at than either Congress or Nationals. In truth....likely more costly to show at the World Championships than at Congress and Nationals COMBINED! An AMHA membership is $70; that does not include the breed's magazine. The magazine costs an additional $55 in the US, and for Canadians, $99 So there ya go, apples to apples, whichever way you look at it.

There is little point in making comparisons and complaining about it, because one breed is not another breed, and one organization is not another organization! Each one has different attractions, each one has something different to offer.

 

[Candi]

There is little point in making comparisons and complaining about it, because one breed is not another breed, and one organization is not another organization! Each one has different attractions, each one has something different to offer.

Not the way we see it at all... the ONLY thing that's different about AQHA, APHA, AMHR, ASPC is the horses they register. Period. After that - what is offered and for how much - is up to the MEMBERS of the registry.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

I have been saying this for years that they should have a choice to seperate the magazines from the membership price. You know the AMHA World is very nice, lots of articles, great registry info, nice advertisments, etc...

Now this is old news as the Journal for AMHR/ASPC has a new editor but the Journal the past couple of years were late to members, fewer advertisers, not very many articles, and yes they depend this as your newsletter but if you don't get the magazine in a timely matter then some of the news is old news and you may not even heard about it. IMO I think if it was allowed to go on I think more people would have complained and want it to be seperate from their membership price. With a new editor hopefully this whole mess whill change and I'm looking forward to the new issues.

Atleast in AMHR you don't have to be a member to do paperwork, AMHA its mandatory. I think more people will choose 1 registry over the other cause it is getting too expensive to do both registeries. I know AMHR is loosing members, I'm not sure about AMHA, but AMHR's numbers are way down from previous years and they need too look into why.

 

[~Lisa~]

There has been "rumblings" in the PtHA world about move universal fees. I think because, as pointed out here, it's WAY cheaper to show PtHA on the west coast. Would be nice to see that change in your area

That is interesting Candi.. does the Pinto association give the local clubs some money for shows?

As a show manager I know I can not charge the same per class in a area with say 50 horses showing say as those in a area with 100 horses showing casue of course local clubs putting on AMHR shows need to be able to pay for the show and hope to make some money but it sounds like if Pinto is going towards universal class fees for their shows that perhaps they kick in some money for those smaller shows or areas with less participation?

 

[Candi]

That is interesting Candi.. does the Pinto association give the local clubs some money for shows?

As a show manager I know I can not charge the same per class in a area with say 50 horses showing say as those in a area with 100 horses showing casue of course local clubs putting on AMHR shows need to be able to pay for the show and hope to make some money but it sounds like if Pinto is going towards universal class fees for their shows that perhaps they kick in some money for those smaller shows or areas with less participation?

Not that I know of... I think what they're talking is trying to offer more "flat rate" day fees, etc... I can't imagine being able to institute true "universal" fees - and not sure it would be a good/feasible idea...

Though I've never been to a PtHA show with less than 75-100 horses - though I'm sure they're out there.

 

[~Lisa~]

I have been to shows with less then 50 horses actually. Interesting cause I know that show would have lost big time meaning the local club if they had to have universal flat fees but I guess that will just eliminate the shows in areas with less participation and I am sure increase it where there is already a good amount of people showing

 

[Candi]

I have been to shows with less then 50 horses actually. Interesting cause I know that show would have lost big time meaning the local club if they had to have universal flat fees but I guess that will just eliminate the shows in areas with less participation and I am sure increase it where there is already a good amount of people showing

Will be interesting to see for sure. I'm NOT involved on the decision-making end - and am fine with either decision. I feel that the PtHA shows in the West are already very cheap as they are