Let's learn about SABINO....

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

Once again a thread that had good intent... has to be torn apart.. I could go on but it is to frustrating to do so.

Lauralee thanks for trying to start a basic thread with nice basic info for people to start learning with.

By the way I have a sabino on my web site or so I have been told my gelding Manny he is marked alot like a clyde bay, with roaning white hairs, lots of face white under the chin as well

 

[MiLo Minis]

QUOTE:Milo Minis

There are some genetic experts that believe that all facial white markings are caused by the Sabino gene as well as leg markings and although you may not subscribe to that theory you also cannot prove any different same as they can't yet prove their theory. Just saying it is so doesn't make it true - you do have to be able to prove your theory.

Yes, strangely enough, I do know that.

I cannot understand why you would think I do not, or why you would assume I do not hold this to be true???

Lauralee whilst I take your point there is little point in putting forward, or allowing to pass uncorrected, things that may not be correct.

I do applaud you starting this thread, but I am not going to keep quiet and just let one point of view be heard- that would be pointless.

And I must say I do not consider this to be "college level" quite the opposite.

Maybe it would help if you mentioned in your replies that what you are stating is just the theory that you happen to agree with and not say things like "in fact" as it is not a fact but rather just one theory. You didn't correct anything just disagreed with someone who is trying to help others learn about colour. Everything Lauralee stated was what is accepted as Sabino traits. I may have assumed that you didn't know that because you said "in fact a bald face is not a Sabino trait but Splash". Not all of the people that have spent their lives studying genetics would agree with you. It is important that everyone reading knows that Sabino is not a colour that has been definitively defined yet by genetic proof. You were not stating a fact.

Lauralee thank you for helping to educate others on this forum in spite of difficulty. :bgrin

 

[Lauralee]

:

: Thank you Lori, Lisa, and Kaykay.

Kaykay wasn't it you that used to own a pretty sabino stallion? Or was that Carolyn? I remember seeing a really pretty bay sabino a couple years back....he had the white face, two some stockings, and the really vivid sabino roaning all over his body....

 

[wantminimore]

I think Lauralee is doing a good job in the color threads. I for one appreciate starting out with the basics before getting into all of the variations.

Thank you.

Leslie

 

[Sterling]

Well I for one certainly would like to keep reading on. These threads have kept me busy reading throughout the day and I even started thinking I'm "getting it"!! :aktion033: I don't consider myself per say a newbie...but the color and patterns have always thrown me for a loop. Please carry on with the informative inputs...I think I'm learning something!

:

 

[kaykay]

That was me and it was Magic Mans Red Rocket. hes also Rabicano/Splash so wasnt sure if i should post his pic lol. Hes the sire of the sabino i first posted on this thread

Heres a close up of his face marking and one blue eye.

well shoot cant get his face shot to resize sorry!

body shot

 

[Danielle_E.]

May I ask a question about "sabino" per say. In the initial posting it was stated that Sabino "always" have brown eyes". I have a mare that I was told was a maximum expression sabino medicine hat who tested positive for LWO but she has blue eyes. It she truly considered "sabino" then????

 

[Lauralee]

Dani

She is BOTH Sabino AND LWO (Frame).

Neat combination! Let's see pictures!!!!!

Laura

 

[Songcatcher]

May I ask a question about "sabino" per say. In the initial posting it was stated that Sabino "always" have brown eyes". I have a mare that I was told was a maximum expression sabino medicine hat who tested positive for LWO but she has blue eyes. It she truly considered "sabino" then????

I think you have mis-read sleightly. It says Sabinos have brown eyes. I could not find the word "always" anywhere. Brown eyes are a typical trait of Sabino, but when mixed with other patterns they may be overridden. Does that make sense? For example, Brown eyes are typical of Sabino and Blue eyes are typical of Splash. If a horse has both patterns, the typical trait of one or the other has to be overridden.

Edited:

Must have been typing at the same time as Lauralee.

 

[Lewella]

With the pinto patterns one cannot keep the information generic because by doing so much of the picture is completely missed. It is difficult to discuss a pattern and do it justice without addressing the minimal and maximum expected expression levels particularly in a breed where expression levels go to the extremes. With the rarity of single pattern individuals it also does not do the patterns justice to discuss them without addressing how the patterns interact and react with each other. Sabino in particular is not something that can be broke down to a very basic level - even those who have studied it for years only have a very limited understanding of how extensive the sabino complex is.

Sabino is a complex and the various degrees of expression are due to several gene pairs making up the complex. Different combinations of genes create different effects.

Sabino can express as minimally as a spot on a colts dangly or a small patch of roaned hair. Sabino can express as highly as a completely white horse with NO colored hairs and NO pigment remaining on its body.

Sabino DOES NOT cause blue eyes - if a horse has blue eyes another pattern (frame or splash) is present.

Not all sabinos will have lower lip white. Lower lip white is a characteristic of sabino but not all of them have this indictor.

Many sabinos have no leg white. Because it is a complex there are genes that can restrict sabino expression - some sabinos will have face white and no leg white because they happen to have face white restrictors. Some will have face white and no leg white because they have leg white restrictors.

"There are some genetic experts that believe that all facial white markings are caused by the Sabino gene as well as leg markings"

You have actually misstated the theory. The theory is that all face white and leg white is caused by one or more of the pinto patterns being present with sabino being the most common causative pattern. In other words - there is no such thing as "normal" markings, they are all the result of one of the pinto patterns.

 

[Danielle_E.]

It was Lyn who mentioned she was sabino chestnut medicine hat to me when I bought her and I found out she was LWO. I never would have guessed "sabino" not sure why Lyn said that but she knows this mare. She was owned by Vivi Dupont (she is the one that got her tested and found out she was LWO. Lyn said that Vivi had purchased 4 "Hawk" daughters. To look at her she is maximum where sabino is concerned, she of course has the chestnut medicine hat and she has two black spots, one near her mouth, I guess where the overo part shows up in her and she has two blue eyes. Yes her sire is a splash overo and her dam was a chestnut pinto I was told. She came to me bred and the foal she had was a bay filly with brown eyes :new_shocked: She was bred I was told to a black and white blue eyed stallion

: ..... I was in total shock to say the least when I saw this bay filly from this supposed combination but who knows. The brown eyes could have come from the sabino I guess but the color still baffles me. Her sire "Hawk" though is a bay splash overo....

I don't have any good pictures of her, nor any clipped pictures either at this point.

 

[CheyAut]

Can I play? I ask b/c the horses I"m about to post aren't minis! Sorry! But my 3 pinto minis, one lacks sabino, and the other two have other pinto patterns so they aren't good examples to show, IMO

BUT, these two are good? I refer to them as minimal sabinos, but I"m not sure that's good, since many sabinos are even more minimally marked, but anyhow... The first is my Thoroughbred gelding Cheyenne

And this is my bs paint mare Riddle. She has roaning on her flanks but I don't think I have a pic that shows it...

 

[squeaky]

Hi,

Here is my three year old filly, KS Just To Fancy, who is a bay roan sabino.

Amanda

 

[capall beag]

OK, I have a Q!

I have been told that both of my tobiano pinto horses also have the sabino pattern........Do they?

Roaning on their flanks and white under the chin on both.......does this alone mean they have the sabino pattern?

Here they are

Oh I can only get one to load but they have very similar coloring/markings

 

[TangoMango]

I have one!! ** I THINK**

This is Sophie, my APHA breeding stock mare.

 

[Songcatcher]

OK, I have a Q!

I have been told that both of my tobiano pinto horses also have the sabino pattern........Do they?

Roaning on their flanks and white under the chin on both.......does this alone mean they have the sabino pattern?

Yes, those are Sabino characteristics.